mnealtx 0
QuoteThat's big boy science.
*golf clap*
Color me semi-impressed that you didn't continue the 'well, in how many incidents were they only after the cop's gun'...but you haven't said anything I didn't in post 106:
"OC/CC are both deterrents to various levels of criminals. OC has the downsides of making you a target if it's discovered by a criminal, and scaring the uninformed public."
or in post 85:
"OC *can* act as a specific deterrence, but can also mark you as a target to a criminal. CC acts as a general deterrence and doesn't set you up as Casualty #1 on the police report if things go south."
or in post 90:
"*NOTHING* is going to deter the truly dedicated criminal, (re: North Hollywood shootout) all we can do is try to deter the less dedicated ones. For some, the general possibility of armed response is enough (CC or general police activity). For others, it takes specific examples of armed response (OC or direct police activity/armed guards).
Conversely, the highest nail gets hammered first - the police and the OC group are the most obvious threats to the criminal and any shots fired are going to be in their direction."
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
Quote
Conversely, the highest nail gets hammered first - the police and the OC group are the most obvious threats to the criminal and any shots fired are going to be in their direction."
that presumes that the attack is going to happen. Which makes as much sense as the other thread where we're asked, how well can a civilian fight on the open battlefield vs a trained Marine?
This thread is about our friends in Montana with a growing crime concern. They're not at war with their neighbors, they just have gained some undesirables. OC would encourage that ilk to find someone else, not to launch an attack.
mnealtx 0
QuoteOC would encourage that ilk to find someone else, not to launch an attack.
You have NO way to know that - that's the whole point.
It *may* cause the criminal to find someplace else to rob...or it MAY ensure that the OC is the first person shot.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
http://www.gunblast.com/SW_342PD.htm
Take a quick look at the link above Steve...I happen to know a 'grumpy old skydiver' in Texas that's been carrying one for years.
The thing is with CC, there are a couple of 'modes' you kinda need to address.
~Expecting trouble: if this is the case and your only option is a sidearm, you are going to want a large caliber high capacity semi automatic. One that you are comfortable carrying and shooting. The 'problem' is 99.9% of the time you're not 'really' expecting trouble, so you are saddled with carrying around a large heavy weapon that in reality is rather hard for most people to carry comfortably & conceal effectively.
I have a few that fit the bill, but a Glock 21 is what is loaded and holstered.
~Some added security: This mode is simply the acknowledgement that we live in a society in which there is violence and the common sense of self preservation necessitates having an edge.
For this you are going to want something that is lightweight, small, reliable and powerful enough to stop an attack.
That little 5 shot S&W .38 (+p) is a daily CC wet-dream.
The weapon loaded weighs less than the Glock 21 magazine, in a jacket or pants pocket it goes for the most part unnoticed by both the wearer and the public. It's a reasonably hard hitting round. It's quite accurate for a less than 2in. barrel, I have a tiny laser in the left grip that makes reactive point shooting a breeze, I can easily put 5 of 5 in a silhouette target at 50 yards consistently. Kzone shots at 7 yards are almost automatic.
Not real loud, not a lot of recoil or muzzle flash, smaller grip that's solid & comfortable...it's IMO one of the easiest CC weapons to both carry daily but to also train non-enthusiasts how to use effectively and without discomfort.
For someone like a grumpy old skydiver that's not expecting trouble but would like to have something in hand other than prayer beads should it happen to come...and can't see the necessity of hanging a few pounds on a belt every day ~ small, light, accurate and reliable are tough to beat.
~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
Take a quick look at the link above Steve...I happen to know a 'grumpy old skydiver' in Texas that's been carrying one for years.
The thing is with CC, there are a couple of 'modes' you kinda need to address.
~Expecting trouble: if this is the case and your only option is a sidearm, you are going to want a large caliber high capacity semi automatic. One that you are comfortable carrying and shooting. The 'problem' is 99.9% of the time you're not 'really' expecting trouble, so you are saddled with carrying around a large heavy weapon that in reality is rather hard for most people to carry comfortably & conceal effectively.
I have a few that fit the bill, but a Glock 21 is what is loaded and holstered.
~Some added security: This mode is simply the acknowledgement that we live in a society in which there is violence and the common sense of self preservation necessitates having an edge.
For this you are going to want something that is lightweight, small, reliable and powerful enough to stop an attack.
That little 5 shot S&W .38 (+p) is a daily CC wet-dream.
The weapon loaded weighs less than the Glock 21 magazine, in a jacket or pants pocket it goes for the most part unnoticed by both the wearer and the public. It's a reasonably hard hitting round. It's quite accurate for a less than 2in. barrel, I have a tiny laser in the left grip that makes reactive point shooting a breeze, I can easily put 5 of 5 in a silhouette target at 50 yards consistently. Kzone shots at 7 yards are almost automatic.
Not real loud, not a lot of recoil or muzzle flash, smaller grip that's solid & comfortable...it's IMO one of the easiest CC weapons to both carry daily but to also train non-enthusiasts how to use effectively and without discomfort.
For someone like a grumpy old skydiver that's not expecting trouble but would like to have something in hand other than prayer beads should it happen to come...and can't see the necessity of hanging a few pounds on a belt every day ~ small, light, accurate and reliable are tough to beat.
~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
Quote
I think there are times when open carry has it's advantages and times when concealed is better.
And there lies the truth of it all.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
devildog 0
QuoteQuote
Ruger LCP
Strongly disagree. Rugers LCP, or Little Copy Pistol, because it is a rip off of a KelTec 380 design, may be fun to target shoot but the 380 round sucks for self defense.
I don't want to get shot by any gun, but if I had to chose I would rather be shot by a 380 than a 45!!!
At the minimum I would go with a 9mm, and the heaviest 9mm self defense round that you gun will shoot reliably and that you shoot accurately.
Go heavy.
Negative. .380s can be carried with just about anything (nothing) on, so they are an excellent choice for anytime, anywhere and still be concealed. There's some really good ammo now for the 380 with good gel tests. Is it a .45? No. But it's more than enough to stop a bad guy.
But to the OP. Read a lot. Fire a lot if you can. Find what you're comfortable with. It's more important to be accurate than wave a big gun around. If A charging bad guy isn't scared off by you drawing a gun (at which point, what does it matter if its a .32, a .38 special or a .50), he's not going to be stopped instantly w/o a shot to the CNS / heart. Most importantly, whatever you get, practice a lot.
You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.
Incident from last month proves it false. Next attempt?
you want absolutes? In the real world? As Kallend would tell you, anecdotes != data. You want to know what the typical outcome is, not the outlier.
So in this conversation, you want to know the rate of attack and the end result of Concealed Carry, Open Carry, and No Carry. You're not looking for the one that results in absolutely nothing bad ever happening, you want the one that minimizes it. Concealed carry might have the same rate of attack as no carry, but may have better outcomes. Open carry may (and probably will) have much lower rate of attack, but may have worse outcome expectation. And in a state where CCW are common, you have have different rates of attack then you see in states where CCWs are not common as the criminals have different expectations of resistance.
That's big boy science. Not "you can get 100M hits on google" about this one incident last month.