Concealed Carry Handgun?

[DaVinci 0]

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I sure like the looks of that GLOCK 19, Gen 4, 9mm. Do they all come with fixed sights??? If I can't find one with adjustable sights, I won't buy one.

Simple is better for SD. I have seen adjustable sights fall off in classes.

And you can adjust the G19 stock sights. And once zeroed, they should never have to be readjusted.

I'd avoid the Gen4 G19... they have had a few issues. People say they are fixed now. But if a company that made a reserve that had some issues.... I'd stay away from them for a while till I *Knew* the issue was fixed.

[steve1 5]

So, the question is, what is considered acceptable accuracy? I've shot pistols for fifty or more years. Long enough to know there is a big difference in pistols. If all gun fights were at ten feet, maybe it wouldn't matter.

I remember shooting a wore-out 45 one day. The silhouette was only about five yards away. It was hard to hit that silhouette anywhere, let alone in a vital area....No, matter how carefully you aimed or squeezed the trigger....I don't want a gun like that. At point blank range, it might save your bacon, but there are better pistols available.

My daughters both have snub nosed 38 revolvers. Actually my youngest daughter has two 38 revolvers. One is a full sized pistol with about a four inch barrel.

I was very impressed with my older daughters snubby. It was much more accurate than I expected.

My youngest daughter took her snub nosed 38 and shot at a target about six yards away. Not only were the groups big, but they were definitely grouping to the left. It has fixed sights, and there is no way to adjust them. My daughter knew immediately, that something was wrong. She'd shot her full sized pistol enough to know this was not even close to what her bigger pistol would shoot.

If that pistol shot a little high or low, a person could live with that, but I told her to trade this gun off on one that shot better.

It's good to know that GLOCK pistol sights can be adjusted, even if they are fixed. Maybe I can live with that.

I've never had trouble with a dove tail sight moving, but I suppose it could happen.

Low profile sights make sense.

I suppose it would be smart to wait on that GLOCK 19, GEN 4, to make sure the bugs are worked out. I'm anxious to try one out.

At any rate, I appreciate all the input on this. I'm anxious to buy another pistol or two....

[winsor 186]

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So, the question is, what is considered acceptable accuracy? I've shot pistols for fifty or more years. Long enough to know there is a big difference in pistols. If all gun fights were at ten feet, maybe it wouldn't matter.

I remember shooting a wore-out 45 one day. The silhouette was only about five yards away. It was hard to hit that silhouette anywhere, let alone in a vital area....No, matter how carefully you aimed or squeezed the trigger....I don't want a gun like that. At point blank range, it might save your bacon, but there are better pistols available.

My daughters both have snub nosed 38 revolvers. Actually my youngest daughter has two 38 revolvers. One is a full sized pistol with about a four inch barrel.

I was very impressed with my older daughters snubby. It was much more accurate than I expected.

My youngest daughter took her snub nosed 38 and shot at a target about six yards away. Not only were the groups big, but they were definitely grouping to the left. It has fixed sights, and there is no way to adjust them. My daughter knew immediately, that something was wrong. She'd shot her full sized pistol enough to know this was not even close to what her bigger pistol would shoot.

If that pistol shot a little high or low, a person could live with that, but I told her to trade this gun off on one that shot better.

It's good to know that GLOCK pistol sights can be adjusted, even if they are fixed. Maybe I can live with that.

I've never had trouble with a dove tail sight moving, but I suppose it could happen.

Low profile sights make sense.

I suppose it would be smart to wait on that GLOCK 19, GEN 4, to make sure the bugs are worked out. I'm anxious to try one out.

At any rate, I appreciate all the input on this. I'm anxious to buy another pistol or two....

The first thing to rule out is trigger pull issues. A slight tweak at release that would be no issue with Goncala Alves or Pachmayr grips on a 6" Model 19 can move the point of impact quite a bit with small grips on a 2" Model 36. Shooting big groups is a sign that grip & trigger control may be involved.

For a snubby with demonstrated windage issues, the only thing I can think of is to adjust the rear sight notch with something along the lines of epoxy.

The center of the notch has to move 0.023" to the right for every inch the group is off to the left, so you need to fill in the left side of the sight notch enough the the center of the notch is properly aligned to center the group on target.

If the desired notch is too skinny, you can then use nail polish on the front sight to compensate - and to further adjust windage as well.

T do this, you need to blacken the front sight, and put a line of either white or other bright color so that it is outlined by the rear sight when the pistol is on target.

The advantage of this approach is that it gives the confidence that comes from practicing with something that you KNOW can hit where you aim.

In a combat situation, you then rely on muscle memory; if something is more than 6 yards from you, departing immediately is probably the best option, if it is less than 6 yards and approaching, 5 deliberate shots should be effective. Up close and personal, instinct shooting is more useful than finely honed target skills.

In any event, you may prefer to simply replace your daughter's carry piece with something that instills more confidence right out of the box. The best firearm for self defense is the one on whose performance you would stake your life, and one size does not fit all.


BSBD,

Winsor

[JohnRich 4]

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The center of the notch has to move 0.023" to the right for every inch the group is off to the left, so you need to fill in the left side of the sight notch enough the the center of the notch is properly aligned to center the group on target.

That measurement you quote is not a fixed number for all circumstances. It varies depending upon the sight radius of the particular firearm you're trying to zero. One with 4" between the front and rear sights will be different from one with 6" between sights.

[steve1 5]

Thanks for the tip Winsor. Maybe there is a way to change fixed sights.

I did some instinctive shooting, with my brother once. He taught firearms training at the police academy.

You'd bring the pistol part way up and just concentrate on what you were trying to hit. No sights at all to mess with.....It worked fairly well, at close range.

This pistol shooting may be a lot of fun. I've even got the wife talked into getting a new pistol or two. She doesn't really know how much they cost though. I figure I'll surprise her on that...It's not always easy to get the Commander and Chief on board with what I want to do....

[winsor 186]

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The center of the notch has to move 0.023" to the right for every inch the group is off to the left, so you need to fill in the left side of the sight notch enough the the center of the notch is properly aligned to center the group on target.

That measurement you quote is not a fixed number for all circumstances. It varies depending upon the sight radius of the particular firearm you're trying to zero. One with 4" between the front and rear sights will be different from one with 6" between sights.

He said snubby, so I worked with the dimensions of a 2" J Frame. I should have been more specific regarding how I came up with that SWAG.

[airtwardo 6]

Might just be me Steve, but I have a couple Glocks and 'have' had others, I've never been unsatisfied with the accuracy on any of them.

In fact the 1st one I ever shot was a 19 and I couldn't MISS with it!

One thing to keep in mind it when you practice a lot you instinctively have a feel for when the round will go. I don't shoot as much as I use to but still make it a point to put 100 rounds a month through my 'plan b' weapons. 50 in a .357 subby 50 .40 auto, the groups aren't as tight as ten years ago but nothing stay tight forever!

Find someone that has a 19 and go play with it, I think you'll find it's well within your requirements as far as accuracy.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[steve1 5]

Thanks Airtwardo. I'm anxious to try out some pistols at that new range in Billings. The wife is even looking forward to it. I'll keep your advice in mind...

[mnealtx 0]

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Thanks Airwardo. I'm anxious to try out some pistols at that new range in Billings. The wife is even looking forward to it. I'll keep your advice in mind...

Good luck and have fun - looking forward to see what your wife picks out.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[DaVinci 0]

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So, the question is, what is considered acceptable accuracy? I've shot pistols for fifty or more years. Long enough to know there is a big difference in pistols. If all gun fights were at ten feet, maybe it wouldn't matter.

Most SD uses are less than 10 feet. Much further and running to cover becomes the better option.

Think about it this way.... What is the longest shot you can take in your house?

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I remember shooting a wore-out 45 one day......

Wore out is the problem.

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My youngest daughter took her snub nosed 38 and shot at a target about six yards away. Not only were the groups big, but they were definitely grouping to the left.

Right handed shooter? And the grouping has nothing to do with the sights.

[matthewcline 0]

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So, the question is, what is considered acceptable accuracy? I've shot pistols for fifty or more years. Long enough to know there is a big difference in pistols. If all gun fights were at ten feet, maybe it wouldn't matter.

Most SD uses are less than 10 feet. Much further and running to cover becomes the better option.

Think about it this way.... What is the longest shot you can take in your house?

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I remember shooting a wore-out 45 one day......

Wore out is the problem.

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My youngest daughter took her snub nosed 38 and shot at a target about six yards away. Not only were the groups big, but they were definitely grouping to the left.

Right handed shooter? And the grouping has nothing to do with the sights.

If the group is left, the trigger finger is not deep enough on the trigger, if right the trigger finger is too deep on the trigger (reversed for Left handed shooters).

If the group is big but consistent it is a matter of refining technique.

Shooting, like Skydiving, is best not learned on the web in a forum.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[SkyDekker 1,130]

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Northeast Montana is no longer a safe place to be. There's an oil boom going on. Thousands of people are moving in. A teacher was kidnapped when she went out for a jog several days ago. She was probably raped and murdered. That sort of thing has never happened here.

My wife wants me to get a concealed permit, but I'd like her to get one too. She jogs early on most mornings.

I've never liked the little snub-nosed pistols that you can't hit the broad side of a barn with.

A bigger pistol might be a pain to carry, but I'd like to be able to hit what I aim at too.

I watched Gun Talk on tv the other day. It said that a 1911 45 is probably the easiest gun to shoot, the most accurate, and the most reliable, while having plenty of knock down power. Do you think this is true?

I know Glok's are really popular. It seems like most police carry them. I've never really liked the looks or feel of them, but maybe they will grow on you, once you have one.

I thought I might get a smaller 9mm for the wife.

Maybe a big, bulky, 1911, 45, is too big for concealed carry....It would be a good fight stopper though.

I've got a smaller hand. I heard that you can customize a 1911 to fit a smaller hand.

Those Kimber 45's sure look nice. I know they aren't cheap. There's lot's of cheaper 1911's out there, but I was wondering how they shoot....Some need a lot of custom work....

I can customize a rifle to shoot well, but I'm kind of stupid when it comes to pistols...

Do you know of any good training books or videos for combat shooting?

I'd like to attend a school like Gun Site, but that might cost a fortune....

What are your thoughts are on all this?....

Why are you so obsessed about the tool? Can't you understand that it is just an inanimate object and doesn't do anything by itself?

It is all about the DEFENDER! Just have her carry a paperclip, it is just as effective!

[steve1 5]

If the group is left, the trigger finger is not deep enough on the trigger, if right the trigger finger is too deep on the trigger (reversed for Left handed shooters).

If the group is big but consistent it is a matter of refining technique.

Shooting, like Skydiving, is best not learned on the web in a forum.

Matt

I think you are assuming a lot in your statements.
Like I said, I've shot pistols for fifty years, not just talk about them.

My daughter grouped to the left also. The same big group.

Just because a group is big, and to the left, doesn't automatically mean trigger control....With this pistol the sights are not properly aligned with the barrel.

My other daughter has virtually the same pistol, but a different manufacturer. The groups were small and on target at closer to twenty yards.

[steve1 5]

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Why are you so obsessed about the tool? Can't you understand that it is just an inanimate object and doesn't do anything by itself?

It is all about the DEFENDER! Just have her carry a paperclip, it is just as effective!

This is way too deep for me to figure out....Is this a trick question or something? I don't get it! Are you talking in tongues?

[DaVinci 0]

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If the group is left, the trigger finger is not deep enough on the trigger, if right the trigger finger is too deep on the trigger (reversed for Left handed shooters).

Or slapping the trigger.

[airtwardo 6]

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Why are you so obsessed about the tool? Can't you understand that it is just an inanimate object and doesn't do anything by itself?

It is all about the DEFENDER! Just have her carry a paperclip, it is just as effective!

This is way too deep for me to figure out....Is this a trick question or something? I don't get it! Are you talking in tongues?

Ever straighten out a paperclip and zing it down range with a rubber-band!

PAPERCLIPS don't blind people...2nd graders do!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[JohnRich 4]

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This is way too deep for me to figure out....Is this a trick question or something? I don't get it! Are you talking in tongues?

Skydek is pissed off about the political opinions of some other people about guns in another thread, and not getting any respect there for his ideas, he has decided to spread it to other unrelated non-political gun threads, like this one.

Just ignore it...

[steve1 5]

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My youngest daughter took her snub nosed 38 and shot at a target about six yards away. Not only were the groups big, but they were definitely grouping to the left.

Right handed shooter? And the grouping has nothing to do with the sights.

DaVinci,
How can you make such a grand statement as this. Surely you must know that there is more to shooting than just trigger control. Of course trigger control is important, but it is not the only factor afftecting accuracy. I'd like to know how you can be so certain that we are either pulling the gun to the left or slapping the trigger....Please explain!

[SkyDekker 1,130]

No at all JR. In that same thread I agree with people owning guns based on your 2nd Amendment.

But this might be a good place to ask steve1 which tool he would consider more effective at killing people, or maybe in this case for self defence:

A bat or a firearm?

[Coreece 190]

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No at all JR. In that same thread I agree with people owning guns based on your 2nd Amendment.

But this might be a good place to ask steve1 which tool he would consider more effective at killing people, or maybe in this case for self defence:

A bat or a firearm?

For killing people, I would choose a car.

For self defense it would depend on the opposing threat. If I was attacked with a paperclip, I would want a safety pin...

If it were scissors, I'd want a rock, if it were a rock, I'd want paper, if it were paper, I'd want scissors...

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[JohnRich 4]

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But this might be a good place to ask steve1 which tool he would consider more effective at killing people, or maybe in this case for self defence: A bat or a firearm?

I think you should leave that discussion in the thread where that's the express purpose of the discussion, and have more respect for the intent of this thread which is not about gun politics.

[matthewcline 0]

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If the group is left, the trigger finger is not deep enough on the trigger, if right the trigger finger is too deep on the trigger (reversed for Left handed shooters).

If the group is big but consistent it is a matter of refining technique.

Shooting, like Skydiving, is best not learned on the web in a forum.

Matt

I think you are assuming a lot in your statements.
Like I said, I've shot pistols for fifty years, not just talk about them.

My daughter grouped to the left also. The same big group.

Just because a group is big, and to the left, doesn't automatically mean trigger control....With this pistol the sights are not properly aligned with the barrel.

My other daughter has virtually the same pistol, but a different manufacturer. The groups were small and on target at closer to twenty yards.

Well, my last sentence did put the caveat out there!

Of course I can't (or any one for that matter) say exactly what is happening wit he group all on one side.

A firearms Coach working with you and the Family in person would be much better.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[SkyDekker 1,130]

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I think you should leave that discussion in the thread where that's the express purpose of the discussion, and have more respect for the intent of this thread which is not about gun politics.

Actually, my question is perfect for this threat,s ince it is not related to politics at all. This thread is about which tool is effective for a specific purpose. In the other threat your co-horts are telling me bats are just as effective as guns.

Steve1 is experienced with arms, only fair to ask him the question. I also note you have not answered the question either.

[matthewcline 0]

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I think you should leave that discussion in the thread where that's the express purpose of the discussion, and have more respect for the intent of this thread which is not about gun politics.

Actually, my question is perfect for this threat,s ince it is not related to politics at all. This thread is about which tool is effective for a specific purpose. In the other threat your co-horts are telling me bats are just as effective as guns.

Steve1 is experienced with arms, only fair to ask him the question. I also note you have not answered the question either.

The thread is about Concealed Handgun Carry, nothing less.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[pchapman 262]

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A bat or a firearm?

In the context of this thread, I'll pick the firearm.

Reason: A concealed carry bat stuffed down your pant leg makes it really awkward to walk.

Back to the original topic.