DesertAttorney 0 #76 November 3, 2011 QuoteQuote>Easier by far, and just as effective, to regulate the financial services industry. Ah. The old "MORE REGULATION! On everyone but me" argument. Which is fine - but it's somewhat hypocritical to espouse such a plan but reject such plans from groups like gun advocates. Nope, incorrect. If the mortgage industry is properly regulated it automatically applies to borrowers too. Foreclosures have always been with us, but we didn't have a meltdown until AFTER the financial services industry was deregulated. Why do you purport to know how to "properly" regulate the mortgage industry? You do not have any credentials to speak with any authority on economics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #77 November 3, 2011 Quote properly regulated There's the key. It's a matter of opinion and reasonable minds can differ. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weekender 0 #78 November 4, 2011 QuoteQuote>Easier by far, and just as effective, to regulate the financial services industry. Ah. The old "MORE REGULATION! On everyone but me" argument. Which is fine - but it's somewhat hypocritical to espouse such a plan but reject such plans from groups like gun advocates. Nope, incorrect. If the mortgage industry is properly regulated it automatically applies to borrowers too. Foreclosures have always been with us, but we didn't have a meltdown until AFTER the financial services industry was deregulated. Im curious because i dont honestly know. what about mortgage derivatives was deregulated? as far as i know, they were never regulated. Who regulated them and when were they deregulated? I have never heard of this till you mentioned it. I'm looking for an answer specific to mortgage derivatives. Its fine if you dont know, neither do I. i've mentioned this before. the big problem is that it is nearly impossible to regulate these securities because they trade between institiutions, no exchanges or (regulated)OTC markets, by contracts. No clearing houses."The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird." John Frusciante Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bertt 0 #79 November 4, 2011 If you mean Credit Default Swaps, those haven't been regulated. (For more background, read about Brooksley Born and her attempts to regulate them.) They are essentially a form of insurance and should be regulated like other forms of insurance, with underwriting standards and reserve requirements. If they had been, AIG Financial Products probably wouldn't have imploded. To address a point raised in another post about who has the credentials to talk about regulation; Alan Greenspan had the credentials to talk about regulation, or the lack of need for it. How'd that work out?You don't have to outrun the bear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,402 #80 November 4, 2011 >Im curious because i dont honestly know. what about mortgage derivatives >was deregulated? Nothing directly. Indirectly, the Gramm–Leach–Bliley act removed regulations that prevented banks, securities companies and insurance companies from merging and selling services to themselves. Once the GLB act was passed, massive companies formed that sold mortgages, sold CDSes on those mortgage backed securities, invested that income in ever more risky markets etc. The GLB act is the primary reason there are now companies that are "too big to fail." >it is nearly impossible to regulate these securities because they trade between > institiutions, no exchanges or (regulated)OTC markets, by contracts. No >clearing houses. Agreed. And after the GLB act passed, they could make those trades within one company. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #81 November 4, 2011 QuoteAgreed. And after the GLB act passed, they could make those trades within one company. They would make profit on it *how*, if they were trading within company?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weekender 0 #82 November 4, 2011 >Agreed. And after the GLB act passed, they could make those trades within one company. Im not dissgreeing with your comment, however, that is not what brought down MLCO, LEHM and BEST. they did not have retail mortgage operations. they purchased their derivatives in the OTC market from other firms or created their own by purchasing individual packages. again from other firms. Also, what desk held the securities that brought down those firms? it wasnt the market making desk. it was PM's on an asset mgt or prop desk. i mention this because those desk no longer exist. they have been sold or closed. All that is left are people who are trying to manage the liquidations. Why mention this? because you can create all the regulations you want. it isnt going to prevent this again because the banks have moved on. politicians, in general, dont understand the financial markets and rarely pass relevent regulations. they are like generals fighting the last war."The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird." John Frusciante Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weekender 0 #83 November 4, 2011 QuoteQuoteAgreed. And after the GLB act passed, they could make those trades within one company. They would make profit on it *how*, if they were trading within company? the retail division sells a bunch of mortgages to retail customers. they then sell them to the IB division which creates a package and then sells them to an institutional client. its marked up at each transaction. Thats how it could be done. it wasnt what brought down LEHM, MLCO or BEST, since they didnt have retail mortgage divisions."The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird." John Frusciante Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #84 November 4, 2011 back to topic... QuoteThere is no way through the formal mechanisms of power to restore the rule of law. There is no way to protect the ordinary citizen and the poor around the globe from the predatory activity of financial institutions such as Goldman Sachs. Since our courts refuse to put on trial the senior executives at Goldman Sachs, including Blankfein, who carried out these crimes and lied to cover them up, we will. Speculators like those in Goldman Sachs—who in the 17th century when speculation was a crime would have been hanged—must be prevented by law from again destroying our economy, preying on ordinary citizens, hoarding food so the poor starve and running our political process. We are paying for these crimes—not those who orchestrated perhaps the most massive fraud in human history. Our teachers, police, firefighters and public employees are losing their jobs so speculators like Blankfein can make an estimated $250,000 a day. Working men and women are losing their homes and going into personal bankruptcy because they cannot pay their medical bills. Our unemployed, far closer to 20 percent than the official 9 percent, are in deep distress all so a criminal class, a few blocks from where I speak, can wallow in luxury with mansions and yachts and swollen bank accounts. What we are asking for today is simple—it is a return to the rule of law. And since the formal mechanisms of power refuse to restore the rule of law, then we, the 99 percent, will have to see that justice is done. http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/11/04-6stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weekender 0 #85 November 4, 2011 >Goldman Sachs hoards rice, wheat, corn, sugar and livestock and jacks up commodity prices around the globe so that poor families can no longer afford basic staples and literally starve. the people at GSCO are pure evil. how can the world stand for this? could someone explain to me how they accomplish this feat? we should find those giant stores of grain and liberate them for the poor. I believe they are kept in Chicago at a place called the CME. this place must be destroyed. speculation on food is pure evil. few questions for the gentleman in the tin foil hat. How do you expect the farm industry to buy its supplies without the sale of futures? do you know what a future speculator is? do you know the difference between a clearing house and a stockpile? i dont want you to answer. just pointing something to the reasonable minded people reading. GSCO is one of the largest clearing houses in the world. this includes futures contracts. so at any given time they technically hold large stockpiles of commodities, including grains and such. of course, they hold it for someone else as part of a commodity market system. how hilarious is it that someone twist that into hoarding food to starve people. alot more people would starve for sure if the farmers didnt sell futures to buy actual seeds to plant."The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird." John Frusciante Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #86 November 4, 2011 cheating and theft is cheating and theft...stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weekender 0 #87 November 4, 2011 Quotecheating and theft is cheating and theft... is that a response to my post? it makes no sense. if one person is asked to hold something for another. oh lets say a bushel of grain, for example. then said person delivers the bushel at the agreed time to a third person who bought it. How is that theft or cheating? You have no idea what my example means, do you? dont answer. you will only embarrass yourself more. do yourself a favor. when i post, ignore it. ill do the same. i feel guilty actually responding to you. its like picking on a disabled person."The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird." John Frusciante Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #88 November 4, 2011 it's ok - you are fond of the 1% and want to express yourself on their behalf. we understand...stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weekender 0 #89 November 4, 2011 Quoteit's ok - you are fond of the 1% and want to express yourself on their behalf. we understand... no im fond of reason. it is hilarious that you think because i understand a basic commodity futures contract, im defending anyone. you honestly have no idea what im talking about do you? to funny."The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird." John Frusciante Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #90 November 4, 2011 is it the 1% you are fond of - or is it their money...stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weekender 0 #91 November 4, 2011 Quoteis it the 1% you are fond of - or is it their money... did you lose the part of your brain that makes you feel embarrassed? you cannot wrap your mind around a simple commodity transaction and your upset with me? you cant bring yourself to see that holding grain in escrow for two parties is not hoarding and you think i have the problem? you must hate your local pro shop. those bastards do the same thing with gear. they hoard stockpiles of rigs that two parties have asked them too. all for their mutual benefit. how much longer can these hoarders be allowed to exist!!!! I'm sorry to all the reasonable people forced to read this. please understand it was just to easy and fun. i feel bad and will not respond to him/her anymore."The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird." John Frusciante Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #92 November 4, 2011 it's fun batting with you - but back to topic... QuoteOn Thursday, in the park, Princeton University philosopher Cornel West and former New York Times war correspondent Chris Hedges presided over a mock “people’s trial” of Wall Street giant Goldman Sachs. Several hundred occupants then marched to Goldman’s headquarters. As they chanted, “We got sold out; banks got bailed out,” dozens of Freedom Tower construction workers on their lunch break smiled approvingly. One of those marching was a middle-aged, well-dressed black man. He said his name was Alvin David, and he hadn’t been able to find much work these days. “I come here two or three days a week to join the marches,” he said. “This movement is waking the country up, and I want to be a part of it.” As the camps keep growing, the politicians will be forced to listen. That is how social change has so often come in America. http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2011/11/04-3stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #93 November 4, 2011 Quotecheating and theft is cheating and theft... This is the most sense you have made since coming here So now that you realize what you are advocating, you can stop it"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #94 November 4, 2011 Quoteit's ok - you are fond of the 1% and want to express yourself on their behalf. we understand... So, tell me, of all those 1% you so despise, in that group, what is the lowest yearly income? NOTE: you may want to do a bit of research before you answer Oh, And I am talking the 1% of income earners in the US who pay like what, 35% of the fed income taxes I will give you a day to answer"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,632 #95 November 6, 2011 QuoteQuoteit's ok - you are fond of the 1% and want to express yourself on their behalf. we understand... So, tell me, of all those 1% you so despise, in that group, what is the lowest yearly income? NOTE: you may want to do a bit of research before you answer Oh, And I am talking the 1% of income earners in the US who pay like what, 35% of the fed income taxes It could be the 1% that own 40% of the wealth.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,632 #96 May 21, 2015 www.nytimes.com/2015/05/21/business/dealbook/5-big-banks-to-pay-billions-and-plead-guilty-in-currency-and-interest-rate-cases.html?_r=0 If corporations are people, how come no jail time for these crooks?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,402 #97 May 21, 2015 >If corporations are people, how come no jail time for these crooks? Because putting secretaries and accountants in jail for something they had very little part in makes no sense. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #98 May 21, 2015 billvon>If corporations are people, how come no jail time for these crooks? Because putting secretaries and accountants in jail for something they had very little part in makes no sense. Then it should be the one that has the buck stop as his desk.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,632 #99 May 21, 2015 turtlespeed***>If corporations are people, how come no jail time for these crooks? Because putting secretaries and accountants in jail for something they had very little part in makes no sense. Then it should be the one that has the buck stop as his desk. Sometimes I agree with you. The architects of these schemes should be behind bars.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #100 May 21, 2015 billvon>If corporations are people, how come no jail time for these crooks? Because putting secretaries and accountants in jail for something they had very little part in makes no sense. I think the query is more re: why the top corporate executives generally haven't been prosecuted individually. The real answer is that while top corporate executives may very well face individual criminal liability either due to their own direct wrongdoing, or indirectly via the "Responsible Corporate Officer Doctrine", the top executives at the top (current and former) banking houses have enough financial resources on hand to pay civil penalties, and are sufficiently in bed with those occupying the upper echelons of government, that they effectively immunize themselves from being prosecuted. Why, for example, were Angelo Mozillo (Countrywide) or Kenneth Lewis (Bank of America) never criminally prosecuted? Well, that's why. So it's the top execs of small- and middling-sized companies that get nailed (with occasional sacrifical lambs like Madoff), while these guys walk. And so it goes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
