Amazon 7 #1 October 12, 2011 Yeah yeah yeah... Less regulation goooood Sounds like Anti-American dealing with the Axis of Evil terrorists to me sports fans. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-02/koch-brothers-flout-law-getting-richer-with-secret-iran-sales.html Koch Brothers Flout Law Getting Richer With Secret Iran Sales In May 2008, a unit of Koch Industries Inc., one of the world’s largest privately held companies, sent Ludmila Egorova-Farines, its newly hired compliance officer and ethics manager, to investigate the management of a subsidiary in Arles in southern France. In less than a week, she discovered that the company had paid bribes to win contracts. “I uncovered the practices within a few days,” Egorova- Farines says. “They were not hidden at all.” She immediately notified her supervisors in the U.S. A week later, Wichita, Kansas-based Koch Industries dispatched an investigative team to look into her findings, Bloomberg Markets magazine reports in its November issue. By September of that year, the researchers had found evidence of improper payments to secure contracts in six countries dating back to 2002, authorized by the business director of the company’s Koch-Glitsch affiliate in France. “Those activities constitute violations of criminal law,” Koch Industries wrote in a Dec. 8, 2008, letter giving details of its findings. The letter was made public in a civil court ruling in France in September 2010; the document has never before been reported by the media. Egorova-Farines wasn’t rewarded for bringing the illicit payments to the company’s attention. Her superiors removed her from the inquiry in August 2008 and fired her in June 2009, calling her incompetent, even after Koch’s investigators substantiated her findings. She sued Koch-Glitsch in France for wrongful termination. Obsessed with Secrecy Koch-Glitsch is part of a global empire run by billionaire brothers Charles and David Koch, who have taken a small oil company they inherited from their father, Fred, after his death in 1967, and built it into a chemical, textile, trading and refining conglomerate spanning more than 50 countries. Koch Industries is obsessed with secrecy, to the point that it discloses only an approximation of its annual revenue -- $100 billion a year -- and says nothing about its profits. The most visible part of Koch Industries is its consumer brands, including Lycra fiber and Stainmaster carpet. Georgia- Pacific LLC, which Koch owns, makes Dixie cups, Brawny paper towels and Quilted Northern bath tissue. Charles, 75, and David, 71, each worth about $20 billion, are prominent financial backers of groups that believe that excessive regulation is sapping the competitiveness of American business. They inherited their anti-government leanings from their father Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #2 October 12, 2011 QuoteSounds like Anti-American dealing with the Axis of Evil terrorists to me sports fans. I'm sure that's exactly what it sounds like to people who have no idea what the FCPA actually regulates. Unfortunately for the fair Mme, her firing was found to be appropriate.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #3 October 12, 2011 Quote Quote Sounds like Anti-American dealing with the Axis of Evil terrorists to me sports fans. I'm sure that's exactly what it sounds like to people who have no idea what the FCPA actually regulates. Unfortunately for the fair Mme, her firing was found to be appropriate. You didn't read the whole thing did you before you began puckerin up did you....Read the whole article... hell I even got a Bloomberg for ya.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #4 October 12, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Sounds like Anti-American dealing with the Axis of Evil terrorists to me sports fans. I'm sure that's exactly what it sounds like to people who have no idea what the FCPA actually regulates. Unfortunately for the fair Mme, her firing was found to be appropriate. You didn't read the whole thing did you before you began puckerin up did you....Read the whole article... I did, and it's obvious that neither the 'reporter' nor you know what the hell you're talking about. From the article: "Internal company documents show that the company made those sales through foreign subsidiaries, thwarting a U.S. trade ban." The trade ban only applies to US companies, not foreign subsidiaries. "Koch Industries took elaborate steps to ensure that its U.S.-based employees weren’t involved in the sales to Iran, internal documents show." '“Your staff shall send this form to me since I have to send it to the lawyers in the USA as part of the compliance program,” Rigon wrote in the e-mail. “If somebody happens to find out that any U.S. persons are involved in this project or U.S. material is delivered to Iran you CANNOT quote.”' So, Bloomberg is reporting that Koch followed the law. Quote hell I even got a Bloomberg for ya.... Is that the new codeword for "smear job"?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #5 October 12, 2011 so where was the secret sales to Iran? Wasn't in your snip, and barely mentioned in the first 100 paragraphs of the article, despite being part of the title. pretty shoddy writing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #6 October 12, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote Sounds like Anti-American dealing with the Axis of Evil terrorists to me sports fans. I'm sure that's exactly what it sounds like to people who have no idea what the FCPA actually regulates. Unfortunately for the fair Mme, her firing was found to be appropriate. You didn't read the whole thing did you before you began puckerin up did you....Read the whole article... I did, and it's obvious that neither the 'reporter' nor you know what the hell you're talking about. From the article: "Internal company documents show that the company made those sales through foreign subsidiaries, thwarting a U.S. trade ban." The trade ban only applies to US companies, not foreign subsidiaries. "Koch Industries took elaborate steps to ensure that its U.S.-based employees weren’t involved in the sales to Iran, internal documents show." '“Your staff shall send this form to me since I have to send it to the lawyers in the USA as part of the compliance program,” Rigon wrote in the e-mail. “If somebody happens to find out that any U.S. persons are involved in this project or U.S. material is delivered to Iran you CANNOT quote.”' So, Bloomberg is reporting that Koch followed the law. Quote hell I even got a Bloomberg for ya.... Is that the new codeword for "smear job"? I love it when you defend anti-americanism by your heroes..... its such fun to watch... doing business with the enemies of America for profit... What did they call that in previous decades?????? Oh yeah War Profiteering and being a traitor. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #7 October 12, 2011 Sid Luft back at it, eh? My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #8 October 12, 2011 Quote Sid Luft back at it, eh? No.. a bunch of CROOKED lawyers more interested in lining their pockets.. than supporting their country....... I guess they pucker up real nice for Mr Koch tooBut you go ahead and keep that sliding scale of patriotism in play Jerry... Its workin for the fringe right wing soooo well. These guys are some of the largest bankrollers of consevatards..... I thought they were patriotic americans.. not the traitors they are lookin like. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
loumeinhart 0 #9 October 12, 2011 QuoteNo.. a bunch of CROOKED lawyers more interested in lining their pockets.. than supporting their country. name them Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #10 October 12, 2011 QuoteQuoteNo.. a bunch of CROOKED lawyers more interested in lining their pockets.. than supporting their country. name them Just more nameless faceless Koch Industries drones.. read the article.... its amazing what you can find there. The Koch Brothers have paid their lawyers... MILLIONS.. defending them from those horrible government regulators who want them to pay for their many many crimes. No wonder they want to buy all the guys you vote for in hopes they can get richer and get away with buggering more of the American people. QuoteThe ‘Koch Method’ Internal company documents show that the company made those sales through foreign subsidiaries, thwarting a U.S. trade ban. Koch Industries units have also rigged prices with competitors, lied to regulators and repeatedly run afoul of environmental regulations, resulting in five criminal convictions since 1999 in the U.S. and Canada. From 1999 through 2003, Koch Industries was assessed more than $400 million in fines, penalties and judgments. In December 1999, a civil jury found that Koch Industries had taken oil it didn’t pay for from federal land by mismeasuring the amount of crude it was extracting. Koch paid a $25 million settlement to the U.S. Phil Dubose, a Koch employee who testified against the company said he and his colleagues were shown by their managers how to steal and cheat -- using techniques they called the Koch Method. Refused to Falsify In 1999, a Texas jury imposed a $296 million verdict on a Koch pipeline unit -- the largest compensatory damages judgment in a wrongful death case against a corporation in U.S. history. The jury found that the company’s negligence had led to a butane pipeline rupture that fueled an explosion that killed two teenagers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
loumeinhart 0 #11 October 12, 2011 Quotemore interested in lining their pockets.. than supporting their country. You should talk to the kid who made my double-burrito last night. I guarantee you he's more interested in lining his pockets then "supporting his country" - so whats your beef with him?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
loumeinhart 0 #12 October 12, 2011 Sorry.. you didn't name any lawyers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #13 October 12, 2011 QuoteSorry.. you didn't name any lawyers Take your pick of any one of the hundreds they have hired... They all seem to have put their own bank accounts before ethics and morality... or god forbid PATRIOTISM that so many of the fringe right like to wrap themselves in when it suits them. What do they call giving aid and comfort to the enemy again? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
loumeinhart 0 #14 October 12, 2011 QuoteNo.. a bunch of CROOKED lawyers Funny how you accuse a 'bunch' of lawyers (Law professionals who have passed the bar exam(s) in a given State) of being "CROOKED" yet fail to name one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #15 October 12, 2011 QuoteQuoteNo.. a bunch of CROOKED lawyers Funny how you accuse a 'bunch' of lawyers (Law professionals who have passed the bar exam(s) in a given State) of being "CROOKED" yet fail to name one. Actions.... You will know them by their deeds Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #16 October 12, 2011 Quote What do they call giving aid and comfort to the enemy again? Are they the enemy (yet)? You might be mixing up the talking points again. Still waiting on the bit about secret iran sales, too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #17 October 12, 2011 QuoteQuoteNo.. a bunch of CROOKED lawyers more interested in lining their pockets.. than supporting their country. name them William Jefferson Clinton comes to mind.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #18 October 12, 2011 You appear to be obsessed with Koch."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #19 October 12, 2011 Quote You appear to be obsessed with Koch. Obsessed with much more than them"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
loumeinhart 0 #20 October 12, 2011 QuoteYou appear to be obsessed with Koch. It's the new "in" thing to hate. I didn't hear a peep about the Koch brothers before the media drew attention to them. If the rich-haters want to be truly proactive they should seek out small/mid-sized business owners that have enormous potential to grow into large successful corporations, and squash them now! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #21 October 12, 2011 QuoteQuoteYou appear to be obsessed with Koch. It's the new "in" thing to hate. I didn't hear a peep about the Koch brothers before the media drew attention to them. How often do you hear about things before someone or something draws attention to them? If they're doing something illegal, they should be held accountable. If they're not, then people should be held liable for their libel. QuoteIf the rich-haters want to be truly proactive they should seek out small/mid-sized business owners that have enormous potential to grow into large successful corporations, and squash them now! As far as "rich-haters", if everyone stops buying their products then they won't be rich ..."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #22 October 12, 2011 QuoteFrom the article: "Internal company documents show that the company made those sales through foreign subsidiaries, thwarting a U.S. trade ban." The trade ban only applies to US companies, not foreign subsidiaries. I didn't bother to read the article, but I think you're wrong about this. I'm no expert, but at my company we have to take annual training regarding international sales. This may be because we are in the arms business, so I'm not sure if the rules are the same for general goods. However, it is illegal for us to sell goods to prohibited countries, regardless of what subsidiary's name appears on the paper. In fact, it is illegal for us to sell goods to an allowed country, if we have reason to believe the real end user is going to be a prohibited country. In other words, the purpose of the law is to keep our goods out of the hands of Iran, et al. Using foreign subsidiaries or intermediaries does not get you around the law. I'm not sure how the trade ban with Iran is set up, but I wouldn't be surprized to learn it had similar provisions. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #23 October 12, 2011 QuoteQuote What do they call giving aid and comfort to the enemy again? Are they the enemy (yet)? You might be mixing up the talking points again. Still waiting on the bit about secret iran sales, too. How many Americans have died as a direct result of the products of that methanol and petrochemical plant. How many Americans died in Beruit with the explosives supplied by Iran??? But its what I expect from the people that brought us Iran-Contra... and all the fine business dealings with our sworn enemies ever since... as long as the profit margin is good... and the checks to the law fiorms keep coming. Those with variable morality and ethics seem to have no problem with doing business with terrotists.... yet still attempt to wrap themselves in the American flag and blither on and on about patriotism. This forum is full of them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #24 October 12, 2011 Quote Quote Quote You appear to be obsessed with Koch. It's the new "in" thing to hate. I didn't hear a peep about the Koch brothers before the media drew attention to them. How often do you hear about things before someone or something draws attention to them? If they're doing something illegal, they should be held accountable. If they're not, then people should be held liable for their libel. Quote If the rich-haters want to be truly proactive they should seek out small/mid-sized business owners that have enormous potential to grow into large successful corporations, and squash them now! As far as "rich-haters", if everyone stops buying their products then they won't be rich ... DUDE... if you were paying attention... the Brothers have been the sleaziest of corporate abuses of law and ethics for at the very least.. 20 years. Do try to keep up.Read the article. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #25 October 12, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote You appear to be obsessed with Koch. It's the new "in" thing to hate. I didn't hear a peep about the Koch brothers before the media drew attention to them. How often do you hear about things before someone or something draws attention to them? If they're doing something illegal, they should be held accountable. If they're not, then people should be held liable for their libel. Quote If the rich-haters want to be truly proactive they should seek out small/mid-sized business owners that have enormous potential to grow into large successful corporations, and squash them now! As far as "rich-haters", if everyone stops buying their products then they won't be rich ... DUDE... if you were paying attention... the Brothers have been the sleaziest of corporate abuses of law and ethics for at the very least.. 20 years. Do try to keep up.Read the article. I did read the article and stated that if you (or anyone else) can prove they're doing something illegal than they should be held accountable. Try to get past the name of the poster and read the content of the post ..."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
