popsjumper 2 #51 September 28, 2011 QuoteAll it takes is a step onto a street, private property, or over any established "line". Yep. Looking for an excuse. Any excuse will do. You won't provide one? Dat's OK wif me...I'll mek wun up.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #52 September 28, 2011 Quote BTW...the Democrats didn't beat up people. Guess who it was...1 guess...no, that one doesn't count...try once more. Bingo! The goobermint-backed poleece. And which "goobermint" was this? Chicago. A place that even today is a rare example of old machine politics, controlled by the Democrats. Those "poleece" answer to Don Daley. It's like shooting fish in a barrel here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meso 38 #53 September 28, 2011 This problem goes far deeper than democrat and republican. The exact type of things happened under Bush during anti-war protests. This type of issue transcends political parties and is a problem at the crux of politics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 644 #54 September 28, 2011 You completely missed the point. Those idiots were interfering with an arrest. No matter what someone is being arrested for and no matter your concern, you're plain stupid to touch or interfere in any way with a cop making an arrest. Feel free to test that. Peaceful, lawful protests and rallies don't have the issues the idiots do when they block traffic, trespass, and touch or strike a cop. Standing up to city cops AIN'T defying the government. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,155 #55 September 28, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote This is probably a good example of why we need guns. Something about being able to rein in government when it becomes too oppressive and out of control. Yeah, that's the theoretical argument. In practice that will just never happen. Right, best to just give in without a fight. Well, he's right. In theory weapons will hold back an oppressive govt. But reality says, its not about the guns. I've been to too many shithole third-world countries where everyone has an automatic weapon and they can't stop an oppresive govt or warlord. Truth is, it's about leadership and the ability to motivate a large group of people with said guns. Guns by themselves you got a bunch of civillians with their large cashe rubbing their hands and muttering "c'mon Guv, take my guns". Totally useless for anything but a false sense of security and triumph. Bingo. And DaVince, I won't comment on the first two dates. They are so far in the past and technology has changed so much, they are nowhere near relevant. On the Battle of Athens. First of all, I think times have changed and even the Battle of Athens could not be repeated in today's day and age. Secondly I don't think a small scale example like that is repeatable on a national level. I know you will disagree with me, so I will just say now that we will have to agree to disagree. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base698 1 #56 September 28, 2011 The rioters in London were so effective because they could use technology. I can imagine in the modern world if an insurgency did start it could be massively effective using such organizational tactics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #57 September 28, 2011 QuoteThose idiots were interfering with an arrest. I didn't notice the individuals in either video interfering with an arrest."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #58 September 28, 2011 some international solidarity... QuoteA group of protesters are organising an occupation of the London Stock Exchange to bring attention to what they see as unethical behaviour on the part of banks, following a similar demonstration on Wall Street. "Beginning on October 15, we want to see at least over 20,000 people flood into lower St Pauls, set up tents, kitchens, peaceful barricades and occupy the London Stock Exchange for a few months. Once there, we shall incessantly repeat one simple demand in a plurality of voices," reads the description of the protest on Facebook. "The beauty of this new formula, and what makes this novel tactic exciting, is its pragmatic simplicity: we talk to each other in various physical gatherings and virtual people's assemblies … we zero in on what our one demand will be, a demand that awakens the imagination and, if achieved, would propel us toward the radical democracy of the future … and then we go out and seize a square of singular symbolic significance and put our asses on the line to make it happen..." http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8794169/Protesters-plan-to-occupy-London-Stock-Exchange.htmlstay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #59 September 28, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote This is probably a good example of why we need guns. Something about being able to rein in government when it becomes too oppressive and out of control. Yeah, that's the theoretical argument. In practice that will just never happen. Right, best to just give in without a fight. Well, he's right. In theory weapons will hold back an oppressive govt. But reality says, its not about the guns. I've been to too many shithole third-world countries where everyone has an automatic weapon and they can't stop an oppresive govt or warlord. Truth is, it's about leadership and the ability to motivate a large group of people with said guns. Guns by themselves you got a bunch of civillians with their large cashe rubbing their hands and muttering "c'mon Guv, take my guns". Totally useless for anything but a false sense of security and triumph. So we should completely ignore the recent events in Libya, Iran and Egypt? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #60 September 28, 2011 Quotethat sounds exactly like what you'd get if DC ordered troops to act against its own citizens. Which DC did in the Anacostia Flats encampment on July 28, 1932. 4 dead; 1,017 injured Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,683 #61 September 28, 2011 QuoteThe rioters in London were so effective because they could use technology. I can imagine in the modern world if an insurgency did start it could be massively effective using such organizational tactics. Until the cell phone towers and ISPs are shut down.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #62 September 28, 2011 QuoteWell, I look at thumbing your nose at a small-community local goobermint and not having to face any support from higher levels just slightly different than taking on the national goobermint. That's all. But the "security of a free State" is not just about FEDERAL tyranny. And that is one of my points. Point #1: The freedom does not only apply against FEDERAL tyranny. QuoteAs for the War Between the States. Two goobermints battling....not unusual at all. Ah, but one was against the Federal Govt..... The ability of the South to be armed allowed them to try. QuoteI don't think any of those things would have a snowball's chance to happen today in this country. 2M hunters in just four States. 1.5M Armed forces. Not all of the hunters would fight, but not all of the Army would fire on civilians. In the revolutionary war, 15-20% remained loyal to the King. 40-45 percent of the white population supported the Patriots' cause and only 8-10% actually fought. While there are 1.5M in the active Military, how many FORMER soldiers do you think are in the US? In 2004, 36.5% of Americans reported having a gun in their home. At this time there were approximately 44 million gun owners in the United States. This means that 25 percent of all adults owned at least one firearm. These owners possessed 192 million firearms, of which 65 million were handguns. 44 MILLION have firearms. The whole intent of the founding fathers was to make sure that the citizens as a whole were able to fight against a tyrannical govt. Point #2: There are 44 M firearm owners in the US. Even if just 10% armed themselves, it would be 4.4M. And while the TOTAL US forces are 1.5M... Many of them are not combat arms and many of them will not fire on civilians.... Even if you had 100% decide to fight... 4.4M VS 1.5M. And we have seen in Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq how effective an insurgency can be. Point #3: Just like in Egypt.... It does not take a LARGE event to elicit change. Look at how many Americans are sick of the US fighting in Afghanistan..... You think they would be supportive of US troops killing AMERICANS in AMERICA? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #63 September 28, 2011 QuoteOn the Battle of Athens. First of all, I think times have changed and even the Battle of Athens could not be repeated in today's day and age. Secondly I don't think a small scale example like that is repeatable on a national level. See my post to Pops about the three points I am making. Citizens in Egypt forced a change with a VERY small group and action. To their credit, they did it mostly peacefully. But small actions can bring big changes. only 10% of the population in the colonies fought for independence. 15-20% were loyalists. And ask US citizens how we feel about Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 644 #64 September 28, 2011 While I have seen some interfering with arrests in a few videos, a video I saw today has me changing my mind. Cops assaulting and battering Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #65 September 28, 2011 Quote While I have seen some interfering with arrests in a few videos, a video I saw today has me changing my mind. Cops assaulting and battering It's a cycle. Cops assaulting people leads to people not trusting cops which leads to people interfering with cops which leads to cops assaulting more people ..."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #66 September 28, 2011 Again. . . QuoteTruth is, it's about leadership and the ability to motivate a large group of people with said guns_____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Channman 2 #67 September 28, 2011 Quote... it will cost you a throwing to the ground or a rounding up and maced. Some of those Wack-jobs had it coming. I was going through several You Tube Videos where several peaceful protesters began throwing punches and assaulting peaceful officers only trying to do their jobs. I think they are lucky not getting a night stick across the head. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #68 September 28, 2011 QuoteAgain. . . QuoteTruth is, it's about leadership and the ability to motivate a large group of people with said guns Agreed, but first you need the guns. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #69 September 28, 2011 True, but that would be required in those countries. Here in the US, a good though-out protesting doesn't require weapons to create change. Tends to annoy cops to no means._____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #70 September 28, 2011 QuoteQuoteThe rioters in London were so effective because they could use technology. I can imagine in the modern world if an insurgency did start it could be massively effective using such organizational tactics. Until the cell phone towers and ISPs are shut down. They did that at a BART station in San Francisco and that caused quite a shit storm with weekly followup protests more about the cell phone action than the original (cops shooting a crazy guy with knife). BART's board basically disallowed the action. This particular group of protestors were idiots - disrupting people's commute home doesn't endear, but they were persistent. You can't shut off the cell towers every Monday afternoon. And you don't need ISPs either - there are other means of communication. Unless society is willing to kill off everything in the name of peace, technology will be present. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #71 October 6, 2011 It's not like some cops planned on using their nightsticks ..."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,683 #72 October 6, 2011 QuoteIt's not like some cops planned on using their nightsticks ... Minneapolis police get slap on wrist for similar tactics at RNC Convention. minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2011/10/03/radio-host-wins-settlement-against-twin-cities-police/ Of course, JPMorgan Chase has already bought the NYPD. www.jpmorganchase.com/corporate/Home/article/ny-13.htm... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #73 October 6, 2011 Looks like they got to use their nightsticks ..."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timmyfritz 0 #74 October 7, 2011 ***Ask the Irish if you need tanks and jets to fight back against folks that have them. We could also ask the Taliban. TFritz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timmyfritz 0 #75 October 7, 2011 QuoteQuoteAll it takes is a step onto a street, private property, or over any established "line". ***Yep. Looking for an excuse. Any excuse will do. You won't provide one? Dat's OK wif me...I'll mek wun up. And in comes the government agent provacaters. Government people posing as protesters acting violently to allow an escalation by LEO's. Watch for it. T.Fritz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
And in comes the government agent provacaters.
Government people posing as protesters acting violently to allow an escalation by LEO's.
Watch for it.
T.Fritz
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