On Wall Street, speech isn't free ...

[lurch 0]

The whole thing is silly. Nothings going to change. Its one big set-piece and the protesters are following the script laid out by the authorities... wave useless signs, yell a lot, get clubbed maced herded and arrested.

It'll maybe start to change if the protesters get serious. If they're so sick of being easily manhandled by the cops they should do something about it. Show up in armor as a coherent group, goggles and gas masks, a few tasers and clubs of their own and dish out what they've been taking. The shrieks of high outrage from the authorities that they would DARE actually fight back effectively and "decline to be arrested" not to mention the resulting slaughter when the cops resort to lethal force, might actually force a reexamination of the way these things are handled.

The cops would unfortunately have no choice but to start killin' people. Maybe that should be the protesters' game plan. Provoke the authorities into a good old fashioned soviet-style slaughter of civilians. And put to the wall, they will. The only thing that'll create serious change is a high body count. Sad.

Bunch of idiots. This is still just a game to them. The only way to win is not to play. But they're gonna keep showing up with signs making noise and congratulating themselves on standing up to the man and making a difference. If they want a revolution (and nothing less is gonna change jack shit) they should STFU and do it and skip the foreplay.

Ain't gonna happen. I'm kinda expecting a few more years and we fall apart like the USSR did through economic irresponsibility. And of course, then, like them, rule of law all but collapses and the gangsters wind up in charge, again, anyway... no-win scenario. This is SUCH a lame rerun of history. I don't suppose anybody ever considered putting down the clubs, mace and signs and actually TALKING to each other in a reasonable fashion...?
Nah.
-B

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

[SkyDekker 1,155]

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The whole thing is silly. Nothings going to change. Its one big set-piece and the protesters are following the script laid out by the authorities... wave useless signs, yell a lot, get clubbed maced herded and arrested.

It'll maybe start to change if the protesters get serious. If they're so sick of being easily manhandled by the cops they should do something about it. Show up in armor as a coherent group, goggles and gas masks, a few tasers and clubs of their own and dish out what they've been taking. The shrieks of high outrage from the authorities that they would DARE actually fight back effectively and "decline to be arrested" not to mention the resulting slaughter when the cops resort to lethal force, might actually force a reexamination of the way these things are handled.

The cops would unfortunately have no choice but to start killin' people. Maybe that should be the protesters' game plan. Provoke the authorities into a good old fashioned soviet-style slaughter of civilians. And put to the wall, they will. The only thing that'll create serious change is a high body count. Sad.

Bunch of idiots. This is still just a game to them. The only way to win is not to play. But they're gonna keep showing up with signs making noise and congratulating themselves on standing up to the man and making a difference. If they want a revolution (and nothing less is gonna change jack shit) they should STFU and do it and skip the foreplay.

Ain't gonna happen. I'm kinda expecting a few more years and we fall apart like the USSR did through economic irresponsibility. And of course, then, like them, rule of law all but collapses and the gangsters wind up in charge, again, anyway... no-win scenario. This is SUCH a lame rerun of history. I don't suppose anybody ever considered putting down the clubs, mace and signs and actually TALKING to each other in a reasonable fashion...?
Nah.
-B

+1

[Butters 0]

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The only way to win is not to play.

I agree. In other videos I saw an awful lot of material possessions that appeared to be produced by large corporations ... However, I still find the use of force by our government on it's civilians in cases like this to be bothersome.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[Coreece 190]

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However, I still find the use of force by our government on it's civilians in cases like this to be bothersome.

I agree, especially when we're paying them officers all that overtime...show a lil respect, ya know...

btw, those LEO wages are also another cost of free speech...

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[normiss 644]

Does anyone REALLY expect someone, anyone to pay attention to these hooligans???
They are essentially asking for world peace and harmony.
Sounds like they all need Baker Acted to me.

[Butters 0]

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Does anyone REALLY expect someone, anyone to pay attention to these hooligans???
They are essentially asking for world peace and harmony.
Sounds like they all need Baker Acted to me.

I agree, they don't appear to have a cohesive argument or solution. However, that had little to do with this thread. This thread was supposed to be about the violence against non-violent individuals practicing their right to free speech.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[normiss 644]

While I don't understand the corralling and macing the people on the sidewalks, those clearly blocking traffic are understandably being arrested. If you're dumb enough to interfere with a cop arresting someone, you would be wise to expect an ass kicking and an arrest.

Man what a cluster fuck.

[Coreece 190]

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I don't understand the corralling and macing the people on the sidewalks

I know man...that was some bizzare shit.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Butters 0]

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While I don't understand the corralling and macing the people on the sidewalks, those clearly blocking traffic are understandably being arrested. If you're dumb enough to interfere with a cop arresting someone, you would be wise to expect an ass kicking and an arrest.

Man what a cluster fuck.

If you're dumb enough to believe that all those individuals getting an "ass kicking" are breaking the law ...

PS: I didn't realize that law enforcement was supposed to give "ass kickings".

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[dreamdancer 0]

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You know that something is rotten in the United States when you find yourself feeling sorry for Rick Perry. The governor of Texas, poor thing, is having a hard time at the hands of his rivals because he supports the idea of children being educated. Yes, you heard that right. Children being educated. They may be children of illegal immigrants, but so? We're talking kids here.

That's enough sympathy for Perry. The executioner-in-chief was introduced at a recent TV debate as having presided over 234 executions. The Republican audience cheered. When asked how he felt about such blood-lust, he said: "I think Americans understand justice."

In another debate, Ron Paul (the libertarian) was asked whether a man with a life-threatening illness but no health insurance should be allowed to die. "Yeah!" shouted the audience. Life is sacred, it seems, but only for the unborn.

Such harshness – barbarity, you might even say – is not an aberration or a joke to be shrugged off over a Budweiser in front of our TV screens. It is an integral part of the American public mind, as evident in Manhattan and Washington as it is in the Deep South. And the Republican party is embracing it with a vigour that should focus all our minds in the presidential election ahead.

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/09/27-7

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[DaVinci 0]

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Yeah, that's the theoretical argument. In practice that will just never happen.

Wrong answer!

June 14, 1775

April 12, 1861

August 2, 1946

So it has happened, and if it is seen to get bad enough it can happen again.... and that is EXACTLY what the founding fathers wanted.

[DaVinci 0]

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In the past the arms of the civilians could compete with the arms of the government ... this is no longer the case

So the US is just having no issues at all in Afghanistan and Iraq?

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I'm not referring to the ability to fight, I'm referring to the ability to win ... I highly doubt armed civilians could overthrow any military base.

You are assuming that all of the troops would blindly fight against the citizens.

Also, you know that if just the HUNTERS in Wisconsin number 600k? Pennsylvania 750k? Michigan 700k? That is 2,050,000

The total active US Military is 1,477,896

Yes, some in the Military hunted, some in those States hunted in more than one State.

But still, 2,050,000????

[popsjumper 2]

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If you include the reserves, the US armed forces is about 3 million strong. Place that against 80 million gun owners hiding amongst 310M citizens. How the fuck are they going to win that engagement?

By saying, "BOO!"
Americans will roll over and lube their own asses.
If you think Americans are capable of armed resistance to the goobermint, well, I dunno....wishful thinking or something?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

Vinci,
The Battle of Athens involved a few local cops backed by maybe 200 not-really-all-that-willing-to fight-supporters who had no back-up from anybody at any level.

Not representative of what would happen today, do you think?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[DaVinci 0]

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The Battle of Athens involved a few local cops backed by maybe 200 not-really-all-that-willing-to fight-supporters who had no back-up from anybody at any level.

Not representative of what would happen today, do you think?

Do you think ALL the Colonists were ready to fight on June 14, 1775?

Do you think that ALL the South were ready to fight on April 12, 1861?

Fact is that a small battle may indeed light a war, or a small battle maybe all that is needed.

AND, do you agree or not that the Battle of Athens was an example of an armed populace taking on government? So in that case, the 2nd did in fact work.... Do you not agree?

[kelpdiver 2]

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Vinci,
The Battle of Athens involved a few local cops backed by maybe 200 not-really-all-that-willing-to fight-supporters who had no back-up from anybody at any level.

Not representative of what would happen today, do you think?

that sounds exactly like what you'd get if DC ordered troops to act against its own citizens.

[masterblaster72 0]

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While I don't understand the corralling and macing the people on the sidewalks, those clearly blocking traffic are understandably being arrested. If you're dumb enough to interfere with a cop arresting someone, you would be wise to expect an ass kicking and an arrest.

Man what a cluster fuck.

Taking it to the streets is where change starts, so to me, even if these people aren't a cohesive bunch, what they're doing is not a bad thing. Good on them for having the cajones to do it.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[popsjumper 2]

Well, I look at thumbing your nose at a small-community local goobermint and not having to face any support from higher levels just slightly different than taking on the national goobermint. That's all.

As for the War Between the States.
Two goobermints battling....not unusual at all. Quite common-place as a matter of fact.

The reference to the Revolutionary War is applicable in a way, yes. Too bad that was over 100 years ago and the goobermint they were battling was only God-knows how many miles away across a small pond.

I don't think any of those things would have a snowball's chance to happen today in this country.

YMMV

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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that sounds exactly like what you'd get if DC ordered troops to act against its own citizens.

I can relate better to political party convention protests in Chicago or war protests at an Ohio university.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[normiss 644]

I'm not dumb. YOU get between a cop and his job and let me know how that works for you. Clearly those having done so in the videos is taken down. Instantly. Harshly. Don't fuck with cops. It's actually quite elementary.

There is a VERY fine line in protests.
More so when those involved are emotional about them.
Tolerance is almost non-existent.
All it takes is a step onto a street, private property, or over any established "line".

[nanook 1]

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This is probably a good example of why we need guns. Something about being able to rein in government when it becomes too oppressive and out of control.

Yeah, that's the theoretical argument. In practice that will just never happen.

Right, best to just give in without a fight.

Well, he's right. In theory weapons will hold back an oppressive govt. But reality says, its not about the guns. I've been to too many shithole third-world countries where everyone has an automatic weapon and they can't stop an oppresive govt or warlord.

Truth is, it's about leadership and the ability to motivate a large group of people with said guns. Guns by themselves you got a bunch of civillians with their large cashe rubbing their hands and muttering "c'mon Guv, take my guns". Totally useless for anything but a false sense of security and triumph.

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[kelpdiver 2]

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that sounds exactly like what you'd get if DC ordered troops to act against its own citizens.

I can relate better to political party convention protests in Chicago or war protests at an Ohio university.

And how well did Daley's side do in the election? You have to look past single events to the big picture: the Democrats may have beaten up some hippies, but they lost the election in the fall, put Nixon in charge.

Did the antiwar movement die after Kent State? Not hardly.

[Meso 38]

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Don't fuck with cops. It's actually quite elementary.

I find that like saying "Don't fuck with a bully, he's twice your size and will fuck you up if you step to him, so don't you even think about taking him on."

Fact is, if one runs in fear of the cops, it just shows that the Government has you completely and utterly by the balls. They're following orders set out directly from the Government. "Minimize any threat towards the current government, do what you can to show that dissent will not be accepted, show the general public who the boss is, show them that we're untouchable"

I fully support any form of dissent, the true protesters will take on police knowing they're going to get fucked up. It proves the point. The point that one is completely at the mercy of the government and that whatever they do has to just be accepted by the people.

They will like you to think "That's why you vote, so if you are unhappy, you can bring in someone new" - But that shit is as fake as can be. Show me one politician that actually does what he promises he will. So the options for the people are, dissent or pretend to think that the next man in charge will actually follow through with his promises, and in turn continue lying to yourself.

Some hippies waving around some signs in a peaceful manner will never change anything. Government needs to feel threatened before it changes it's actions.

Riot police are there to instil fear into the people, they're the government's muscle. "Just go fuck those protesters up, then they will see that they can't fuck with us. Once they can see that we don't play around, they will be too scared to protest again."

Got the public by the balls man, the fucking balls. And there's far too many people okay with that.

[shropshire 0]

"People should not be afraid of their Government - the Government should be afraid of the people".

And they need to be reminded from time to time (quite often actually) that they work for US and not the other war around!

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[popsjumper 2]

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Did the antiwar movement die after Kent State? Not hardly.

Nope...just a few people...at the hands of the goobermint.

BTW...the Democrats didn't beat up people. Guess who it was...1 guess...no, that one doesn't count...try once more.
Bingo! The goobermint-backed poleece.

Are you arguing about something?
If you are, what?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239