dreamdancer 0 #26 July 27, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWe can't pay for it *NOW*, and it doesn't even cover the cost of the doctor's visit. We can't pay for it *NOW* as you say, because there is not enough tax revenue coming in. We COULD pay for it easily. as far as covering the cost of the doctor's visit, -doesn't that doctors visit also include a bunch of overhead and staffing required to deal with the insurance companies? Sorry but I call bullshit. My doctor has no time nor respect for insurance companies. They promise him and fail to deliver. They promise me and fail to deliver. Sounds just like the govt that you continuously complain about. I would rather see my 'wasted money' going to pay for some poor fucker than has not health care than helping to pay the backyard zoo and private jet that some CEO owns..... i am the opposite. i would much rather put my trust in the CEO. he wants to stay rich and in order to do so must continue to deliver a product people want to buy. As it is now i can complain and if not happy switch to another company run by some other CEO. I've seen the gov't run no competition model as stated in an earlier post. dont like it much. if some CEO needs to get rich for me to have good healthcare i'm fine with it. besides zookeepers and private jet pilots need jobs too. what about the competition model of the military? - generals don't need to get rich... the military isnt in the business of providing a good or service to the public like healthcare. not apples to apples to me. You might not agree, i wont try to change your mind. its wired differently than mine if you cannot see my point. i am curious though. if you think the military is similiar to the healthcare industry what about grocery stores? What could be more important than the supply of food? how do we trust our food service delivery to profit motivated individuals? what keeps them from hoarding food to drive up the cost? after all, we NEED food. QuoteThe United States currently pays around $20 billion per year to farmers in direct subsidies as "farm income stabilization" via U.S. farm bills. These bills date back to the economic turmoil of the Great Depression with 1922 Grain Futures Act, the 1929 Agricultural Marketing Act and the 1933 Agricultural Adjustment Act creating a tradition of government support. A Canadian report claimed that for every dollar U.S. farmers earn, 62 cents comes from some form of government, with total aid in 2009 from all levels of government adding up to $180.8 billion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agricultural_subsidy#United_Statesstay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #27 July 27, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteWe can't pay for it *NOW*, and it doesn't even cover the cost of the doctor's visit. We can't pay for it *NOW* as you say, because there is not enough tax revenue coming in. We COULD pay for it easily. as far as covering the cost of the doctor's visit, -doesn't that doctors visit also include a bunch of overhead and staffing required to deal with the insurance companies? Sorry but I call bullshit. My doctor has no time nor respect for insurance companies. They promise him and fail to deliver. They promise me and fail to deliver. Sounds just like the govt that you continuously complain about. I would rather see my 'wasted money' going to pay for some poor fucker than has not health care than helping to pay the backyard zoo and private jet that some CEO owns..... i am the opposite. i would much rather put my trust in the CEO. he wants to stay rich and in order to do so must continue to deliver a product people want to buy. As it is now i can complain and if not happy switch to another company run by some other CEO. I've seen the gov't run no competition model as stated in an earlier post. dont like it much. if some CEO needs to get rich for me to have good healthcare i'm fine with it. besides zookeepers and private jet pilots need jobs too. Are you good with that CEO getting FAR FAR richer because he made sure he got bonuses and his upper management got their bonus based on NOT paying for peoples claims.. with my favorite all time phrase..." pre-existing condition"?? It has happened to millions of Americans.. and unless you get free legal by being a lawyer... you are just pissing up a rope when they tell you to sue them because they know you wont because it will cost you more to sue them than what the bill is. Ya know.. at least when a thief robs you in your home... you have recourse.. you can shoot the muther-fucker.... The thieves at the insurance companies.... not so much. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weekender 0 #28 July 27, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWe can't pay for it *NOW*, and it doesn't even cover the cost of the doctor's visit. We can't pay for it *NOW* as you say, because there is not enough tax revenue coming in. We COULD pay for it easily. as far as covering the cost of the doctor's visit, -doesn't that doctors visit also include a bunch of overhead and staffing required to deal with the insurance companies? Sorry but I call bullshit. My doctor has no time nor respect for insurance companies. They promise him and fail to deliver. They promise me and fail to deliver. Sounds just like the govt that you continuously complain about. I would rather see my 'wasted money' going to pay for some poor fucker than has not health care than helping to pay the backyard zoo and private jet that some CEO owns..... i am the opposite. i would much rather put my trust in the CEO. he wants to stay rich and in order to do so must continue to deliver a product people want to buy. As it is now i can complain and if not happy switch to another company run by some other CEO. I've seen the gov't run no competition model as stated in an earlier post. dont like it much. if some CEO needs to get rich for me to have good healthcare i'm fine with it. besides zookeepers and private jet pilots need jobs too. Are you good with that CEO getting FAR FAR richer because he made sure he got bonuses and his upper management got their bonus based on NOT paying for peoples claims.. with my favorite all time phrase..." pre-existing condition"?? It has happened to millions of Americans.. and unless you get free legal by being a lawyer... you are just pissing up a rope when they tell you to sue them because they know you wont because it will cost you more to sue them than what the bill is. Ya know.. at least when a thief robs you in your home... you have recourse.. you can shoot the muther-fucker.... The thieves at the insurance companies.... not so much. I pay for a product and expect them to deliver. I am ok with them getting as rich as possible as long as they deliver the product to me as promised. I am NOT concerned with their wealth, just that they fulfill the contract we have. That's my only concern. the rest of your post i cannot address because you implied that bonuses are awared by defrauding customers. I do not believe that is the industry standard as you do."The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird." John Frusciante Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 154 #29 July 27, 2011 that works great as long as the CEO is honest and cares about the product they deliver Instead, he lobbies with his riches and has breakfast with the legislators and continuously pushes them to pass legislation that further makes them richer and richer, effectively cornering the markets. WHen was the last time you or I had breakfast with a Congressman? All the insurance companies do it, therefore the competition is non-existent. Monsanto, Health insurance, Title insurance, Oil, Coal, are all examples of rackets where the legislation gets passed that benefits ONLY the companies that lobbied for it. Who is arguing for all the anti-labor legislations around the country today.? Sure ain't Joe average American. Ask any CEO of a health insurance company what their primary objective is. I bet it is "Paying shareholders", definitely NOT "delivering health care". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #30 July 27, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWe can't pay for it *NOW*, and it doesn't even cover the cost of the doctor's visit. We can't pay for it *NOW* as you say, because there is not enough tax revenue coming in. We COULD pay for it easily. as far as covering the cost of the doctor's visit, -doesn't that doctors visit also include a bunch of overhead and staffing required to deal with the insurance companies? Sorry but I call bullshit. My doctor has no time nor respect for insurance companies. They promise him and fail to deliver. They promise me and fail to deliver. Sounds just like the govt that you continuously complain about. I would rather see my 'wasted money' going to pay for some poor fucker than has not health care than helping to pay the backyard zoo and private jet that some CEO owns..... i am the opposite. i would much rather put my trust in the CEO. he wants to stay rich and in order to do so must continue to deliver a product people want to buy. As it is now i can complain and if not happy switch to another company run by some other CEO. I've seen the gov't run no competition model as stated in an earlier post. dont like it much. if some CEO needs to get rich for me to have good healthcare i'm fine with it. besides zookeepers and private jet pilots need jobs too. Are you good with that CEO getting FAR FAR richer because he made sure he got bonuses and his upper management got their bonus based on NOT paying for peoples claims.. with my favorite all time phrase..." pre-existing condition"?? It has happened to millions of Americans.. and unless you get free legal by being a lawyer... you are just pissing up a rope when they tell you to sue them because they know you wont because it will cost you more to sue them than what the bill is. Ya know.. at least when a thief robs you in your home... you have recourse.. you can shoot the muther-fucker.... The thieves at the insurance companies.... not so much. I pay for a product and expect them to deliver. I am ok with them getting as rich as possible as long as they deliver the product to me as promised. I am NOT concerned with their wealth, just that they fulfill the contract we have. That's my only concern. the rest of your post i cannot address because you implied that bonuses are awared by defrauding customers. I do not believe that is the industry standard as you do. Ah ok.. so ignorance is bliss.. got it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weekender 0 #31 July 27, 2011 "Ask any CEO of a health insurance company what their primary objective is. I bet it is "Paying shareholders", definitely NOT "delivering health care". That is the responsibility of all businesses. they exist to make a profit for the owner. I dont see that as a problem because they must provide a product that people want to buy in order to exist. it could be shoes, apples or healthcare. the motives are all the same."The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird." John Frusciante Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sfzombie 3 #32 July 27, 2011 i never once mentioned anarchy. and without all of the federal government intervention into our lives. i don't agree with slavery anymore than women not being allowed to vote. and nobody gets to choose anything. there are no choices, let nature decide. and i think jefferson said we have the responsibility, not the right, to change the government when it isn't working. and elections don't change anything, just which side gets to fuck up things more. either way, nothing gets done andwe all suffer for their incompetence. we don't need anarchy, we need to overthrow the government and try again. this time keep it pure and keep out lobbyists and big business and lifetime appointments to congress. make congress have real jobs they go to and let them sit for the term, without pay. hell, you have to be a rich lawyer to get the job in the first place, they can do without the extra.http://kitswv.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 154 #33 July 27, 2011 QuoteThe United States currently pays around $20 billion per year to farmers in ... I am all about removing such subsidies. Let's see, take that away for 10 years and we save $200B over 10 years. We spent that in the last 2 MONTHS in Afghanistan. Now's let get back to the problem of where we are REALLY wasting money. $20B/year out of a $3.5T budget is less than 0.6% Military budget is $680M or 19.4%. In other words, if we cut the military budget by only 3%, we could afford the subsidies. I am not supporting them, just demonstrating where the real money is being spent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weekender 0 #34 July 27, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWe can't pay for it *NOW*, and it doesn't even cover the cost of the doctor's visit. We can't pay for it *NOW* as you say, because there is not enough tax revenue coming in. We COULD pay for it easily. as far as covering the cost of the doctor's visit, -doesn't that doctors visit also include a bunch of overhead and staffing required to deal with the insurance companies? Sorry but I call bullshit. My doctor has no time nor respect for insurance companies. They promise him and fail to deliver. They promise me and fail to deliver. Sounds just like the govt that you continuously complain about. I would rather see my 'wasted money' going to pay for some poor fucker than has not health care than helping to pay the backyard zoo and private jet that some CEO owns..... i am the opposite. i would much rather put my trust in the CEO. he wants to stay rich and in order to do so must continue to deliver a product people want to buy. As it is now i can complain and if not happy switch to another company run by some other CEO. I've seen the gov't run no competition model as stated in an earlier post. dont like it much. if some CEO needs to get rich for me to have good healthcare i'm fine with it. besides zookeepers and private jet pilots need jobs too. Are you good with that CEO getting FAR FAR richer because he made sure he got bonuses and his upper management got their bonus based on NOT paying for peoples claims.. with my favorite all time phrase..." pre-existing condition"?? It has happened to millions of Americans.. and unless you get free legal by being a lawyer... you are just pissing up a rope when they tell you to sue them because they know you wont because it will cost you more to sue them than what the bill is. Ya know.. at least when a thief robs you in your home... you have recourse.. you can shoot the muther-fucker.... The thieves at the insurance companies.... not so much. I pay for a product and expect them to deliver. I am ok with them getting as rich as possible as long as they deliver the product to me as promised. I am NOT concerned with their wealth, just that they fulfill the contract we have. That's my only concern. the rest of your post i cannot address because you implied that bonuses are awared by defrauding customers. I do not believe that is the industry standard as you do. Ah ok.. so ignorance is bliss.. got it. of course, that is it. I don't agree with your premise so i am ignorant. or stupid. not really sure how you meant to use the word."The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird." John Frusciante Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #35 July 27, 2011 http://www.yourlawyer.com/topics/overview/UnitedHealth_Care_Reimbursement_Fraud Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weekender 0 #36 July 27, 2011 Quotehttp://www.yourlawyer.com/topics/overview/UnitedHealth_Care_Reimbursement_Fraud i know there is fraud in the industry. my point is that its not the industry standard to purposely defraud people. i also get you dont agree. you and i will never agree. i think its silly of you to assume i am ignorant of the industry without knowing me. I'll help you. my job for the last 20 years is to read and understand public companies balance sheets. i have followed the healthcare industry, i know how they work. maybe even more than you, not sure, dont know what you do for a living."The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird." John Frusciante Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #37 July 27, 2011 QuoteQuotehttp://www.yourlawyer.com/topics/overview/UnitedHealth_Care_Reimbursement_Fraud i know there is fraud in the industry. my point is that its not the industry standard to purposely defraud people. i also get you dont agree. you and i will never agree. i think its silly of you to assume i am ignorant of the industry without knowing me. I'll help you. my job for the last 20 years is to read and understand public companies balance sheets. i have followed the healthcare industry, i know how they work. maybe even more than you, not sure, dont know what you do for a living. Yeah.. they are wonderful and great people.. they recieve your monthly payments for years and years and they even pay for the annual physical.. and then one day... you are injured... and all of a sudden you had a pre existing condition you never knew you had Suhprise Suhprise Did I mention.. this has happened to millions. I guess its completely irrelevant to you... since its working GREAT for you. Just wait.. till its not... then suhprise suhprize... it WILL become important to you.. when you have to pay out of pocket because their business model is to deny deny deny any claims they can get away from.. You pay.. or you destroy your credit rating.. Then... you hire a lawyer because you have been wronged.. or not.. since it was only a bill for $1800 and the lawyer will be sure to eat up at least 3 times that. I guess in your world that is sound fiscal planning. So you live in severe pain because you did not have the operation the Dr wanted to do.. and at least you were smart enough NOT to have the operation because that would have been many thousands of dollars... that your wonderful United Health care professional thieves will deem a pre existing condition. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,683 #38 July 27, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteThe private insurers, on average, are faster. A couple are in the same timeframe as Medicare at 14 days, most are 10 days or less to first remittance. certainly MY first concern when I am looking for health care is how quickly the insurer pays....sheesh! like I give a fuck. Medicare for all, better the system, remove those inhibitors, stop denying claims through legislation instead of privatization and then pay for it through the tax base. Just like we pay for the military. solution is easy solution is obvious no one gets 'denied'. access to all. It could even be done in steps over 5-10 years. We can't pay for it *NOW*, and it doesn't even cover the cost of the doctor's visit. When we had CIGNA health plan(which, thank FSM, we no longer use) it never paid at all until we complained. Every single claim made ended up with an error on their part, every single error being in their favor.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #39 July 27, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteThe private insurers, on average, are faster. A couple are in the same timeframe as Medicare at 14 days, most are 10 days or less to first remittance. certainly MY first concern when I am looking for health care is how quickly the insurer pays....sheesh! like I give a fuck. Medicare for all, better the system, remove those inhibitors, stop denying claims through legislation instead of privatization and then pay for it through the tax base. Just like we pay for the military. solution is easy solution is obvious no one gets 'denied'. access to all. It could even be done in steps over 5-10 years. We can't pay for it *NOW*, and it doesn't even cover the cost of the doctor's visit. When we had CIGNA health plan(which, thank FSM, we no longer use) it never paid at all until we complained. Every single claim made ended up with an error on their part, every single error being in their favor. I've had CIGNA for the last 5 years...never a problem with them paying.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #40 July 28, 2011 Quote Quote And how would it be paid for? it's cheaper than the private (and inefficient) system you have at the moment - so money saved for the deficit You didn't answer my question. How would it be paid for?HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,683 #41 July 28, 2011 Quote Quote Quote And how would it be paid for? it's cheaper than the private (and inefficient) system you have at the moment - so money saved for the deficit You didn't answer my question. How would it be paid for? With Franklins.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #42 July 28, 2011 You are dreaming if you really expect our goobermint to do anything right and just. We are cash cows. Do you really think the goobermint, under the influence of big business, is going to do anything that disrupts that? Sweet dreams.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #43 July 28, 2011 Quote Quote Quote And how would it be paid for? it's cheaper than the private (and inefficient) system you have at the moment - so money saved for the deficit You didn't answer my question. How would it be paid for? i did answer your question. it is cheaper than the current private system so money will be saved overall...stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #44 July 28, 2011 QuoteThe National Health Service (NHS) is the shared name of three of the four publicly funded healthcare systems in the United Kingdom. Only the English NHS is officially called the National Health Service, the others being NHS Scotland and NHS Wales. Health and Social Care in Northern Ireland is called the HSC rather than the NHS. Each system operates independently, and is politically accountable to the relevant government: the Scottish Government, Welsh Government, the Northern Ireland Executive, or the UK government (for the English NHS). Despite their separate funding and administration, there is no discrimination when a resident of one country of the United Kingdom requires treatment in another although a patient will often be returned to their home area when they are fit to be moved. The financial and administrative consequences are dealt with by the organisations involved and no personal involvement by the patient is required. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Health_Servicestay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #45 July 28, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote And how would it be paid for? it's cheaper than the private (and inefficient) system you have at the moment - so money saved for the deficit You didn't answer my question. How would it be paid for? i did answer your question. it is cheaper than the current private system so money will be saved overall... You said it would be cheaper, you didn't say how it would be paid. A VW is cheaper than an AMG but that doesn't say a thing about how it is paid for. Try again.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
devildog 0 #46 July 28, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote And how would it be paid for? it's cheaper than the private (and inefficient) system you have at the moment - so money saved for the deficit You didn't answer my question. How would it be paid for? i did answer your question. it is cheaper than the current private system so money will be saved overall... It's cheaper because it pays pennies on the dollar for reimbursement. This is partly why non-medicare costs are so high because those that actually take medicare (there's a shortage of MDs in FL for example that are accepting new ones) have to make up the costs somewhere as they can't stay in business losing money. Saying medicare is better is comparing apples and oranges. They aren't truly competing, nor truly covering costs.You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #47 July 28, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote And how would it be paid for? it's cheaper than the private (and inefficient) system you have at the moment - so money saved for the deficit You didn't answer my question. How would it be paid for? i did answer your question. it is cheaper than the current private system so money will be saved overall... You said it would be cheaper, you didn't say how it would be paid. A VW is cheaper than an AMG but that doesn't say a thing about how it is paid for. Try again. it will take a smaller slice of the economy (while keeping healthcare quality up) - that is how it will be paid for. a win win situation...stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #48 July 28, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote And how would it be paid for? it's cheaper than the private (and inefficient) system you have at the moment - so money saved for the deficit You didn't answer my question. How would it be paid for? i did answer your question. it is cheaper than the current private system so money will be saved overall... It's cheaper because it pays pennies on the dollar for reimbursement. it's cheaper because it gets rid of lots of admin costs stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
devildog 0 #49 July 28, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote And how would it be paid for? it's cheaper than the private (and inefficient) system you have at the moment - so money saved for the deficit You didn't answer my question. How would it be paid for? i did answer your question. it is cheaper than the current private system so money will be saved overall... It's cheaper because it pays pennies on the dollar for reimbursement. it's cheaper because it gets rid of lots of admin costs No it doesn't. The govt is anything but efficient with admin costs. Have you ever gone through something govt related and been like, "Wow! That was hardly any paper work at all!" Do you realize the number of doctors and hospitals that could not practice if they only took medicare rates for everyone? Well, I take that back. They could operate, but they won't be paying for all those tests, screenings, latest cutting edge developments and treatments, etc.You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,178 #50 July 28, 2011 Government-provided healthcare would not be all-solving. It would be basic -- if you want the higher-end stuff, then you have to pay more. Just like public schools are way better than nothing, but not as good as some private schools. Money can just about always buy you more; that's not in question. The question is whether there is a basic amount that should be provided. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
