Coreece 190 #576 August 4, 2011 QuoteQuoteIs that why you are sucking your thumb in your avatar? ***No, that is me thinking about my lost child... Perhaps you can post an avatar with your foot in your big mouth. Quote If I had a lost child I'd be scouting around for him/ her., not sucking my thumb on a rock by the lake. But you don't have a lost child, do you? would you like switch shoes? If so, the fist thing I'd be doing is sucking my foot...Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Coreece 190 #577 August 4, 2011 QuoteThat's all just excuses. You can realize your godly power or you can make excuses. Your free will. So then I guess I shouldn't credit you with much in the way of comprehension? QuoteWe will ascend together. I'll leave God to be the judge of that.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Coreece 190 #578 August 4, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuotebullshit. given that's what you believe about your ancestory, I've always wondered why you are a "somewhat practicing Jew." ...why even bother? As usual, everything you think you know is wrong. "If anyone imagines that he knows something, he does not yet know as he ought to know." You said you were a "somewhat observant Jew." ...I want to know why?Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DanJohnson 0 #579 August 4, 2011 ***But you don't have a lost child, do you? Quote No. I keep close watch after mine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jclalor 12 #580 August 4, 2011 ***Quote***But you don't have a lost child, do you? Quote No. I keep close watch after mine. I once lost my two year ... but I finally won her back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DanJohnson 0 #581 August 4, 2011 QuoteWe will ascend together. ***I'll leave God to be the judge of that. Take responsibility! You are god . That is what the Master taught us. Not that we need priests or books written by priests. He taught that he is like us and we are like him. Leaving god to be the judge is a convenient way to lazily escape any responsibility. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites winsor 189 #582 August 4, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuotebullshit. given that's what you believe about your ancestory, I've always wondered why you are a "somewhat practicing Jew." ...why even bother? As usual, everything you think you know is wrong. "If anyone imagines that he knows something, he does not yet know as he ought to know." You said you were a "somewhat observant Jew." ...I want to know why? Xin loi. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Coreece 190 #583 August 4, 2011 Quote***But you don't have a lost child, do you? Quote No. I keep close watch after mine. you should...Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DanJohnson 0 #584 August 4, 2011 I once lost my two year ... but I finally won her back. I lost a library book once. By the time I found it I owed two dollars an thirty five cents in fines. Doesn't sound like much as an adukt but when you're a kid delivering newspapers it's a fortune! Haven't lost much since other than my virginity and I didn't really lose that I knew exactly to which big titted hooker that went. Lost a kid? Nope. I keep pretty good track of 'em. They ain't exactly like some spare change in my pocket that might just slip down into the sofa cusions. No those kids have value. Ain't gonna' let those just get lost/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Coreece 190 #585 August 4, 2011 Legion!Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shropshire 0 #586 August 4, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Where did matter/energy come from? Where did your god come from? He has always been. By that 'logic' you could equally say that Life as we know it has always been there (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Meso 38 #587 August 4, 2011 Quote***Where did matter/energy come from? ***Where did your god come from? QuoteHe has always been. QuoteBy that 'logic' you could equally say that Life as we know it has always been there Yup it's a weak stance that makes no sense. If one wants to believe that infinity is real and that an entity can exist without any prior creator, then basic thought would tell you that everything can have this attribute. Sure one can say "No only God can exist from nothing", but that holds no weight too. If someone wants to believe that God exists from nothing, then their claim holds no more validity to the idea that matter could exist in such a way. Any kind of special, magical values one wants to place on God to make him able to exist from nothing. There is no reason why matter could not also be given this trait. The thought process needed to come to the conclusion that everything needs a creator except God, but to completely reject someone else's claim another object has that value, is just so absurd. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SpeedRacer 1 #588 August 4, 2011 OK then what caused the Big Bang? And what caused whatever came before that? I am not saying the big bang didn't happen, I am just pointing out that the problem of "first causes" is still there whether you believe in God or not. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites beowulf 1 #589 August 4, 2011 QuoteQuote Because you make these grand claims. Yet can't produce any evidence. Dead-end argument. It's been said before....you make these grand claims. Yet can't produce any evidence that he doesn't exist. Any argument either for or against the existence of a physical God is futile. That is a silly argument. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Meso 38 #590 August 4, 2011 What do you mean what caused the big bang? The big bang was the starting point for the universe as we know it, galaxies and planets etc. But the big bang is not theorised to have just happened. As with Christians believing God is infinite, it is my belief that chronologically speaking, space is infinite. I believe that space existed with quantum activity being present at the lowest levels. As shown in various experiments quantum particles do not act to the laws of relativity and are random in nature. This infinite existence of space was subject to quantum fluctuations. Through lots and lots of time, eventually, as inevitable given a large enough time frame. The big bang was then a reaction of the quantum activity in infinite existing space. Creationism is based around the premise that only God can be infinite and everything else needs a creator and runs on a linear scale of time. But if you don't believe in a linear time frame with a beginning and end point, there becomes no reason for a God. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shropshire 0 #591 August 4, 2011 What I think is funny (well one of the things at any rate) - is that the folks who can't believe that the Universe came from nothing, expect us to believe that the gods did... Makes I larf. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Meso 38 #592 August 4, 2011 Yup, attributing values onto one thing but refusing the idea that another object can share the same values. Makes no sense. The truth is, understanding time and space isn't easy and being human I can understand the feeling of being confused at the idea of there not being a start or end point to something, it feels un-natural. But this is because we live in a world where we are used to relativity, but quantum mechanics show us that at the lowest levels, where the universe would have originated from - the same principles may not apply. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,672 #593 August 4, 2011 QuoteYup, attributing values onto one thing but refusing the idea that another object can share the same values. Makes no sense. The truth is, understanding time and space isn't easy and being human I can understand the feeling of being confused at the idea of there not being a start or end point to something, it feels un-natural. But this is because we live in a world where we are used to relativity, but quantum mechanics show us that at the lowest levels, where the universe would have originated from - the same principles may not apply. A complete absence of matter and energy is a violation of the uncertainty principle. Jaybird simply doesn't know what he is writing about.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jaybird18c 4 #594 August 4, 2011 QuoteA complete absence of matter and energy is a violation of the uncertainty principle. Jaybird simply doesn't know what he is writing about. There is no unified theory. You're treating quantum physics as such. The problem still exists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Meso 38 #595 August 4, 2011 The problem does not still exist. As long as you're saying God doesn't need a creator, then you have no foot to stand on saying that space needed a creator. Well sure you could say it, but that wouldn't make it any less false or hypocritical. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,271 #596 August 4, 2011 QuoteQuoteA complete absence of matter and energy is a violation of the uncertainty principle. Jaybird simply doesn't know what he is writing about. There is no unified theory. You're treating quantum physics as such. The problem still exists. Thing is though, since you apparently can't be bothered to read even the anti science propaganda nonsense you link to, what makes you think your opinions about actual science will have any basis whatsoever?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jaybird18c 4 #597 August 4, 2011 QuoteThe problem does not still exist. As long as you're saying God doesn't need a creator, then you have no foot to stand on saying that space needed a creator. Well sure you could say it, but that wouldn't make it any less false or hypocritical. But you've got to say the same thing in reverse. Like I said before, it is your presupposition/assumption on which you build everything else. Nothing wrong with that...but it is what it is. Scientists did not always approach science in that way. It used to be that we explored our world/universe in an attempt to better understand the mind of God. Since the "Great Enlightenment", the trend has been to elliminate God from the equation and insert ourselves in His place (greatly increasing our arrogance). Belief does not negate science. How could it? God is at it's foundation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jaybird18c 4 #598 August 4, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteA complete absence of matter and energy is a violation of the uncertainty principle. Jaybird simply doesn't know what he is writing about. There is no unified theory. You're treating quantum physics as such. The problem still exists. Thing is though, since you apparently can't be bothered to read even the anti science propaganda nonsense you link to, what makes you think your opinions about actual science will have any basis whatsoever? You have presuppositions just like I do (which you cannot prove scientifically). You see mine and think that I am anti-science which is untrue. I see yours and just better understand where you're coming from. I understand how your initial assumptions would then influence how you see everything else. It's your worldview. I happen to disagree with it. Added: Again, your assumption concerning what I've read is incorrect. I have a bookshelf full of this stuff...and not all by creationists. How can you be sure you're even reading this? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,271 #599 August 4, 2011 QuoteYou have presuppositions just like I do. Yep. Evidence = useful vs evidence = not useful. I'm much happier with my presuppostion than yours. QuoteYou see mine and think that I am anti-science which is untrue. I see yours and just better understand where you're coming from. You credit yourself with far too much insight. QuoteI understand how your initial assumptions would then influence how you see everything else. Yes, the assumption that it is possible to see the world as it is by looking at the world. Not the assumption that to see the world as it is you need to hypothesise a completely invisible uber entity that makes the world a completely different place to what it looks like. Again, I'm much happier with one of those assumptions. QuoteIt's your worldview. I happen to disagree with it. But like I said, since you apparently can't be bothered to read even the anti science nonsense you link to, don't expect your objections to the supposed bias of science to convince many people any time soon.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jaybird18c 4 #600 August 4, 2011 QuoteYep. Evidence = useful vs evidence = not useful. We're looking at the same evidence. I've got no problem with that which we can show to be true (operational science). You just also take speculative (historical science) investigation and assume a solid foundation from which to further your understanding built upon your atheistic assumptions. I see the exact same evidence and approach it from the other perspective. You can't adequately "prove" yours. I can't adequately "prove" mine...at least scientifically. The difference is, I admit my starting point and how it influences my interpretation. You do not admit yours. You take your unprovable position and establish it as absolute. Again, I do the same. We just disagree. I happen to think mine is more reasonable. I understand that you do the same. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 Next Page 24 of 39 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
Coreece 190 #577 August 4, 2011 QuoteThat's all just excuses. You can realize your godly power or you can make excuses. Your free will. So then I guess I shouldn't credit you with much in the way of comprehension? QuoteWe will ascend together. I'll leave God to be the judge of that.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #578 August 4, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuotebullshit. given that's what you believe about your ancestory, I've always wondered why you are a "somewhat practicing Jew." ...why even bother? As usual, everything you think you know is wrong. "If anyone imagines that he knows something, he does not yet know as he ought to know." You said you were a "somewhat observant Jew." ...I want to know why?Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanJohnson 0 #579 August 4, 2011 ***But you don't have a lost child, do you? Quote No. I keep close watch after mine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jclalor 12 #580 August 4, 2011 ***Quote***But you don't have a lost child, do you? Quote No. I keep close watch after mine. I once lost my two year ... but I finally won her back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DanJohnson 0 #581 August 4, 2011 QuoteWe will ascend together. ***I'll leave God to be the judge of that. Take responsibility! You are god . That is what the Master taught us. Not that we need priests or books written by priests. He taught that he is like us and we are like him. Leaving god to be the judge is a convenient way to lazily escape any responsibility. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites winsor 189 #582 August 4, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuotebullshit. given that's what you believe about your ancestory, I've always wondered why you are a "somewhat practicing Jew." ...why even bother? As usual, everything you think you know is wrong. "If anyone imagines that he knows something, he does not yet know as he ought to know." You said you were a "somewhat observant Jew." ...I want to know why? Xin loi. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Coreece 190 #583 August 4, 2011 Quote***But you don't have a lost child, do you? Quote No. I keep close watch after mine. you should...Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DanJohnson 0 #584 August 4, 2011 I once lost my two year ... but I finally won her back. I lost a library book once. By the time I found it I owed two dollars an thirty five cents in fines. Doesn't sound like much as an adukt but when you're a kid delivering newspapers it's a fortune! Haven't lost much since other than my virginity and I didn't really lose that I knew exactly to which big titted hooker that went. Lost a kid? Nope. I keep pretty good track of 'em. They ain't exactly like some spare change in my pocket that might just slip down into the sofa cusions. No those kids have value. Ain't gonna' let those just get lost/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Coreece 190 #585 August 4, 2011 Legion!Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shropshire 0 #586 August 4, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Where did matter/energy come from? Where did your god come from? He has always been. By that 'logic' you could equally say that Life as we know it has always been there (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Meso 38 #587 August 4, 2011 Quote***Where did matter/energy come from? ***Where did your god come from? QuoteHe has always been. QuoteBy that 'logic' you could equally say that Life as we know it has always been there Yup it's a weak stance that makes no sense. If one wants to believe that infinity is real and that an entity can exist without any prior creator, then basic thought would tell you that everything can have this attribute. Sure one can say "No only God can exist from nothing", but that holds no weight too. If someone wants to believe that God exists from nothing, then their claim holds no more validity to the idea that matter could exist in such a way. Any kind of special, magical values one wants to place on God to make him able to exist from nothing. There is no reason why matter could not also be given this trait. The thought process needed to come to the conclusion that everything needs a creator except God, but to completely reject someone else's claim another object has that value, is just so absurd. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SpeedRacer 1 #588 August 4, 2011 OK then what caused the Big Bang? And what caused whatever came before that? I am not saying the big bang didn't happen, I am just pointing out that the problem of "first causes" is still there whether you believe in God or not. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites beowulf 1 #589 August 4, 2011 QuoteQuote Because you make these grand claims. Yet can't produce any evidence. Dead-end argument. It's been said before....you make these grand claims. Yet can't produce any evidence that he doesn't exist. Any argument either for or against the existence of a physical God is futile. That is a silly argument. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Meso 38 #590 August 4, 2011 What do you mean what caused the big bang? The big bang was the starting point for the universe as we know it, galaxies and planets etc. But the big bang is not theorised to have just happened. As with Christians believing God is infinite, it is my belief that chronologically speaking, space is infinite. I believe that space existed with quantum activity being present at the lowest levels. As shown in various experiments quantum particles do not act to the laws of relativity and are random in nature. This infinite existence of space was subject to quantum fluctuations. Through lots and lots of time, eventually, as inevitable given a large enough time frame. The big bang was then a reaction of the quantum activity in infinite existing space. Creationism is based around the premise that only God can be infinite and everything else needs a creator and runs on a linear scale of time. But if you don't believe in a linear time frame with a beginning and end point, there becomes no reason for a God. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shropshire 0 #591 August 4, 2011 What I think is funny (well one of the things at any rate) - is that the folks who can't believe that the Universe came from nothing, expect us to believe that the gods did... Makes I larf. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Meso 38 #592 August 4, 2011 Yup, attributing values onto one thing but refusing the idea that another object can share the same values. Makes no sense. The truth is, understanding time and space isn't easy and being human I can understand the feeling of being confused at the idea of there not being a start or end point to something, it feels un-natural. But this is because we live in a world where we are used to relativity, but quantum mechanics show us that at the lowest levels, where the universe would have originated from - the same principles may not apply. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,672 #593 August 4, 2011 QuoteYup, attributing values onto one thing but refusing the idea that another object can share the same values. Makes no sense. The truth is, understanding time and space isn't easy and being human I can understand the feeling of being confused at the idea of there not being a start or end point to something, it feels un-natural. But this is because we live in a world where we are used to relativity, but quantum mechanics show us that at the lowest levels, where the universe would have originated from - the same principles may not apply. A complete absence of matter and energy is a violation of the uncertainty principle. Jaybird simply doesn't know what he is writing about.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jaybird18c 4 #594 August 4, 2011 QuoteA complete absence of matter and energy is a violation of the uncertainty principle. Jaybird simply doesn't know what he is writing about. There is no unified theory. You're treating quantum physics as such. The problem still exists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Meso 38 #595 August 4, 2011 The problem does not still exist. As long as you're saying God doesn't need a creator, then you have no foot to stand on saying that space needed a creator. Well sure you could say it, but that wouldn't make it any less false or hypocritical. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,271 #596 August 4, 2011 QuoteQuoteA complete absence of matter and energy is a violation of the uncertainty principle. Jaybird simply doesn't know what he is writing about. There is no unified theory. You're treating quantum physics as such. The problem still exists. Thing is though, since you apparently can't be bothered to read even the anti science propaganda nonsense you link to, what makes you think your opinions about actual science will have any basis whatsoever?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jaybird18c 4 #597 August 4, 2011 QuoteThe problem does not still exist. As long as you're saying God doesn't need a creator, then you have no foot to stand on saying that space needed a creator. Well sure you could say it, but that wouldn't make it any less false or hypocritical. But you've got to say the same thing in reverse. Like I said before, it is your presupposition/assumption on which you build everything else. Nothing wrong with that...but it is what it is. Scientists did not always approach science in that way. It used to be that we explored our world/universe in an attempt to better understand the mind of God. Since the "Great Enlightenment", the trend has been to elliminate God from the equation and insert ourselves in His place (greatly increasing our arrogance). Belief does not negate science. How could it? God is at it's foundation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jaybird18c 4 #598 August 4, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteA complete absence of matter and energy is a violation of the uncertainty principle. Jaybird simply doesn't know what he is writing about. There is no unified theory. You're treating quantum physics as such. The problem still exists. Thing is though, since you apparently can't be bothered to read even the anti science propaganda nonsense you link to, what makes you think your opinions about actual science will have any basis whatsoever? You have presuppositions just like I do (which you cannot prove scientifically). You see mine and think that I am anti-science which is untrue. I see yours and just better understand where you're coming from. I understand how your initial assumptions would then influence how you see everything else. It's your worldview. I happen to disagree with it. Added: Again, your assumption concerning what I've read is incorrect. I have a bookshelf full of this stuff...and not all by creationists. How can you be sure you're even reading this? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,271 #599 August 4, 2011 QuoteYou have presuppositions just like I do. Yep. Evidence = useful vs evidence = not useful. I'm much happier with my presuppostion than yours. QuoteYou see mine and think that I am anti-science which is untrue. I see yours and just better understand where you're coming from. You credit yourself with far too much insight. QuoteI understand how your initial assumptions would then influence how you see everything else. Yes, the assumption that it is possible to see the world as it is by looking at the world. Not the assumption that to see the world as it is you need to hypothesise a completely invisible uber entity that makes the world a completely different place to what it looks like. Again, I'm much happier with one of those assumptions. QuoteIt's your worldview. I happen to disagree with it. But like I said, since you apparently can't be bothered to read even the anti science nonsense you link to, don't expect your objections to the supposed bias of science to convince many people any time soon.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jaybird18c 4 #600 August 4, 2011 QuoteYep. Evidence = useful vs evidence = not useful. We're looking at the same evidence. I've got no problem with that which we can show to be true (operational science). You just also take speculative (historical science) investigation and assume a solid foundation from which to further your understanding built upon your atheistic assumptions. I see the exact same evidence and approach it from the other perspective. You can't adequately "prove" yours. I can't adequately "prove" mine...at least scientifically. The difference is, I admit my starting point and how it influences my interpretation. You do not admit yours. You take your unprovable position and establish it as absolute. Again, I do the same. We just disagree. I happen to think mine is more reasonable. I understand that you do the same. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 Next Page 24 of 39 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
jclalor 12 #580 August 4, 2011 ***Quote***But you don't have a lost child, do you? Quote No. I keep close watch after mine. I once lost my two year ... but I finally won her back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DanJohnson 0 #581 August 4, 2011 QuoteWe will ascend together. ***I'll leave God to be the judge of that. Take responsibility! You are god . That is what the Master taught us. Not that we need priests or books written by priests. He taught that he is like us and we are like him. Leaving god to be the judge is a convenient way to lazily escape any responsibility. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanJohnson 0 #581 August 4, 2011 QuoteWe will ascend together. ***I'll leave God to be the judge of that. Take responsibility! You are god . That is what the Master taught us. Not that we need priests or books written by priests. He taught that he is like us and we are like him. Leaving god to be the judge is a convenient way to lazily escape any responsibility. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 189 #582 August 4, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuotebullshit. given that's what you believe about your ancestory, I've always wondered why you are a "somewhat practicing Jew." ...why even bother? As usual, everything you think you know is wrong. "If anyone imagines that he knows something, he does not yet know as he ought to know." You said you were a "somewhat observant Jew." ...I want to know why? Xin loi. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #583 August 4, 2011 Quote***But you don't have a lost child, do you? Quote No. I keep close watch after mine. you should...Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DanJohnson 0 #584 August 4, 2011 I once lost my two year ... but I finally won her back. I lost a library book once. By the time I found it I owed two dollars an thirty five cents in fines. Doesn't sound like much as an adukt but when you're a kid delivering newspapers it's a fortune! Haven't lost much since other than my virginity and I didn't really lose that I knew exactly to which big titted hooker that went. Lost a kid? Nope. I keep pretty good track of 'em. They ain't exactly like some spare change in my pocket that might just slip down into the sofa cusions. No those kids have value. Ain't gonna' let those just get lost/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanJohnson 0 #584 August 4, 2011 I once lost my two year ... but I finally won her back. I lost a library book once. By the time I found it I owed two dollars an thirty five cents in fines. Doesn't sound like much as an adukt but when you're a kid delivering newspapers it's a fortune! Haven't lost much since other than my virginity and I didn't really lose that I knew exactly to which big titted hooker that went. Lost a kid? Nope. I keep pretty good track of 'em. They ain't exactly like some spare change in my pocket that might just slip down into the sofa cusions. No those kids have value. Ain't gonna' let those just get lost/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #585 August 4, 2011 Legion!Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #586 August 4, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Where did matter/energy come from? Where did your god come from? He has always been. By that 'logic' you could equally say that Life as we know it has always been there (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meso 38 #587 August 4, 2011 Quote***Where did matter/energy come from? ***Where did your god come from? QuoteHe has always been. QuoteBy that 'logic' you could equally say that Life as we know it has always been there Yup it's a weak stance that makes no sense. If one wants to believe that infinity is real and that an entity can exist without any prior creator, then basic thought would tell you that everything can have this attribute. Sure one can say "No only God can exist from nothing", but that holds no weight too. If someone wants to believe that God exists from nothing, then their claim holds no more validity to the idea that matter could exist in such a way. Any kind of special, magical values one wants to place on God to make him able to exist from nothing. There is no reason why matter could not also be given this trait. The thought process needed to come to the conclusion that everything needs a creator except God, but to completely reject someone else's claim another object has that value, is just so absurd. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #588 August 4, 2011 OK then what caused the Big Bang? And what caused whatever came before that? I am not saying the big bang didn't happen, I am just pointing out that the problem of "first causes" is still there whether you believe in God or not. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #589 August 4, 2011 QuoteQuote Because you make these grand claims. Yet can't produce any evidence. Dead-end argument. It's been said before....you make these grand claims. Yet can't produce any evidence that he doesn't exist. Any argument either for or against the existence of a physical God is futile. That is a silly argument. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meso 38 #590 August 4, 2011 What do you mean what caused the big bang? The big bang was the starting point for the universe as we know it, galaxies and planets etc. But the big bang is not theorised to have just happened. As with Christians believing God is infinite, it is my belief that chronologically speaking, space is infinite. I believe that space existed with quantum activity being present at the lowest levels. As shown in various experiments quantum particles do not act to the laws of relativity and are random in nature. This infinite existence of space was subject to quantum fluctuations. Through lots and lots of time, eventually, as inevitable given a large enough time frame. The big bang was then a reaction of the quantum activity in infinite existing space. Creationism is based around the premise that only God can be infinite and everything else needs a creator and runs on a linear scale of time. But if you don't believe in a linear time frame with a beginning and end point, there becomes no reason for a God. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #591 August 4, 2011 What I think is funny (well one of the things at any rate) - is that the folks who can't believe that the Universe came from nothing, expect us to believe that the gods did... Makes I larf. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meso 38 #592 August 4, 2011 Yup, attributing values onto one thing but refusing the idea that another object can share the same values. Makes no sense. The truth is, understanding time and space isn't easy and being human I can understand the feeling of being confused at the idea of there not being a start or end point to something, it feels un-natural. But this is because we live in a world where we are used to relativity, but quantum mechanics show us that at the lowest levels, where the universe would have originated from - the same principles may not apply. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,672 #593 August 4, 2011 QuoteYup, attributing values onto one thing but refusing the idea that another object can share the same values. Makes no sense. The truth is, understanding time and space isn't easy and being human I can understand the feeling of being confused at the idea of there not being a start or end point to something, it feels un-natural. But this is because we live in a world where we are used to relativity, but quantum mechanics show us that at the lowest levels, where the universe would have originated from - the same principles may not apply. A complete absence of matter and energy is a violation of the uncertainty principle. Jaybird simply doesn't know what he is writing about.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jaybird18c 4 #594 August 4, 2011 QuoteA complete absence of matter and energy is a violation of the uncertainty principle. Jaybird simply doesn't know what he is writing about. There is no unified theory. You're treating quantum physics as such. The problem still exists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meso 38 #595 August 4, 2011 The problem does not still exist. As long as you're saying God doesn't need a creator, then you have no foot to stand on saying that space needed a creator. Well sure you could say it, but that wouldn't make it any less false or hypocritical. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,271 #596 August 4, 2011 QuoteQuoteA complete absence of matter and energy is a violation of the uncertainty principle. Jaybird simply doesn't know what he is writing about. There is no unified theory. You're treating quantum physics as such. The problem still exists. Thing is though, since you apparently can't be bothered to read even the anti science propaganda nonsense you link to, what makes you think your opinions about actual science will have any basis whatsoever?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jaybird18c 4 #597 August 4, 2011 QuoteThe problem does not still exist. As long as you're saying God doesn't need a creator, then you have no foot to stand on saying that space needed a creator. Well sure you could say it, but that wouldn't make it any less false or hypocritical. But you've got to say the same thing in reverse. Like I said before, it is your presupposition/assumption on which you build everything else. Nothing wrong with that...but it is what it is. Scientists did not always approach science in that way. It used to be that we explored our world/universe in an attempt to better understand the mind of God. Since the "Great Enlightenment", the trend has been to elliminate God from the equation and insert ourselves in His place (greatly increasing our arrogance). Belief does not negate science. How could it? God is at it's foundation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jaybird18c 4 #598 August 4, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteA complete absence of matter and energy is a violation of the uncertainty principle. Jaybird simply doesn't know what he is writing about. There is no unified theory. You're treating quantum physics as such. The problem still exists. Thing is though, since you apparently can't be bothered to read even the anti science propaganda nonsense you link to, what makes you think your opinions about actual science will have any basis whatsoever? You have presuppositions just like I do (which you cannot prove scientifically). You see mine and think that I am anti-science which is untrue. I see yours and just better understand where you're coming from. I understand how your initial assumptions would then influence how you see everything else. It's your worldview. I happen to disagree with it. Added: Again, your assumption concerning what I've read is incorrect. I have a bookshelf full of this stuff...and not all by creationists. How can you be sure you're even reading this? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,271 #599 August 4, 2011 QuoteYou have presuppositions just like I do. Yep. Evidence = useful vs evidence = not useful. I'm much happier with my presuppostion than yours. QuoteYou see mine and think that I am anti-science which is untrue. I see yours and just better understand where you're coming from. You credit yourself with far too much insight. QuoteI understand how your initial assumptions would then influence how you see everything else. Yes, the assumption that it is possible to see the world as it is by looking at the world. Not the assumption that to see the world as it is you need to hypothesise a completely invisible uber entity that makes the world a completely different place to what it looks like. Again, I'm much happier with one of those assumptions. QuoteIt's your worldview. I happen to disagree with it. But like I said, since you apparently can't be bothered to read even the anti science nonsense you link to, don't expect your objections to the supposed bias of science to convince many people any time soon.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jaybird18c 4 #600 August 4, 2011 QuoteYep. Evidence = useful vs evidence = not useful. We're looking at the same evidence. I've got no problem with that which we can show to be true (operational science). You just also take speculative (historical science) investigation and assume a solid foundation from which to further your understanding built upon your atheistic assumptions. I see the exact same evidence and approach it from the other perspective. You can't adequately "prove" yours. I can't adequately "prove" mine...at least scientifically. The difference is, I admit my starting point and how it influences my interpretation. You do not admit yours. You take your unprovable position and establish it as absolute. Again, I do the same. We just disagree. I happen to think mine is more reasonable. I understand that you do the same. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
