ChrisL 2
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jakee 1,271
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI say design implies a designer.
You 'assume' design, and therefore assume a designer. The is no evidence of either.
And you assume no designer despite the design.
No. Again, you're assuming the design.
True...but it seems reasonable.
I'm sure it does, but unfortunately apparent reasonableness counts for nothing.
QuoteIf I were walking down the street and I came upon a grouping of rocks on the sidewalk that formed words which read Jay Phillips, who lives at 405 Willowbrook Terrace, Dothan, AL 36301, brown/hazel eyes, brown hair, 5' 10" tall, I wouldn't assume that those rocks formed themselves in such a manner by chance no matter how many millions of years you waited.
Of course you would assume they formed that way through intelligent intervention. You would assume that because you know that the written english word is a human invention. In fact, I would go so far as to say that the fact you can so easily distinguish the results of intelligent human industry from those of nature counts against your overall argument.
QuoteYes, it is an assumption but our DNA is billions of times more complex and specific than what I just described.
And it is the result well understood chemical processes acting over uncountable millions of years. The only way those rocks would get there in that order, apart from intelligent human intervention, would be through one single act of blind chance.
QuoteHere is an interesting article about the Bacterial Flagellum. Much more complex than meets the eye. Irreducibly complex functionality.
I don't believe the bacterial flagellum is irreducibly complex. Rather, I believe that the complete annihilation of the argument that the bacterial flagellum is irreducibly complex formed one of the key parts of the Dover Intelligent Design trial. The one that the proponents of irreducible complexity lost, because they were full of shit.
QuoteIt's the intellectually honest thing to do.
Lets make a deal - if you're going to bring up ideas like irreducible complexity, or compare DNA to human language, then you can shut the hell up about intellectual honesty.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?
tkhayes 145
QuoteAnd you assume no designer despite the design.
INCORRECT. I assume no design, just combinations of mass and energy that have probably always existed.
THAT is the assumption that i will admit - not your 'presumption' of my 'assumption', thanks very much. If you want to know what I am thinking, you only have to ask.
tkhayes 145
QuoteYes I have...good example...and the molecular structure for those consists of information which had to originate from somewhere.
no it didn't.
tkhayes 145
who is demonstrating hate? I am advocating (and always have) no religion in government, that is all.
If you state that you believe in something, i am allowed to criticize it. I have made no threats and no hatred against anyone. I most definitely will comment when the logic does not add up that the person apparently has no argument.
Wanna see hate? Take a look at RodD and his rants about killing people in the name of God.
If you state that you believe in something, i am allowed to criticize it. I have made no threats and no hatred against anyone. I most definitely will comment when the logic does not add up that the person apparently has no argument.
Wanna see hate? Take a look at RodD and his rants about killing people in the name of God.
tkhayes 145
QuoteHere is an interesting article about the Bacterial Flagellum. Much more complex than meets the eye. Irreducibly complex functionality. Could that have happened by chance? I don't think so...but you're free to your opinion. I just wish we'd all admit that we start from an assumption. It's the intellectually honest thing to do. We all have a starting point which we cannot entirely prove scientifically.
The flagellum bacteria argument has been shot down over and over again - do you ever read anything other that the biblical websites that talk about that? Just google it and you will find the dozens of countering arguments and other similar bacteria that have similar parts that serve NO function whatsoever, even though they exist.
The flagellum argument would then say that everything has a purpose, except for all these other microbes that have all the same parts but no purpose.
whatever. I am arguing with someone who fails to look at both sides of an argument before making an informed decision.
Instead your mind is made up and you then only go to source the information and exclusively the information that supports your argument. That might be great 'faith', but it's pretty poor science.
Quotewho is demonstrating hate? I am advocating (and always have) no religion in government, that is all.
If you state that you believe in something, i am allowed to criticize it. I have made no threats and no hatred against anyone. I most definitely will comment when the logic does not add up that the person apparently has no argument.
Wanna see hate? Take a look at RodD and his rants about killing people in the name of God.
TK I was not referring to you. We have discussed this before. I know where you stand and I respect it. I think you are a good guy and I love your DZ ;) I just need to get down there again soon to collect on that beer you owe me!
I am just commenting on some of the remarks and how seething they seem to be that's all. As for RodD..... yes I know which is why I stated what I did about "christians" showing or acting on hate. I know that is hate and I do not like it either. Like I said nothing good can come from it.
Believing in God or not let's take the stance just for a second that He is real. What Jesus taught is not what RodD or anyone else acting on or teaching hate is aligned with. Let's just say Jesus was just a good guy that said some great stuff that we can do to be good people. If those who say they follow those teachings are doing crazy hateful things you sure can't blame Jesus for it.
Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com
QuoteQuoteYes I have...good example...and the molecular structure for those consists of information which had to originate from somewhere.
no it didn't.
And that is your religion.
Skyrad 0
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/new-deadline-set-for-the-end-of-the-world-20110524.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHwVBirqD2s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHwVBirqD2s
When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
billvon 2,463
.thumb.jpg.4bb795e2eaf21b8b300039a5e1ec7f92.jpg)
>and the molecular structure for those consists of information which had
>to originate from somewhere.
Ding ding! You got it! That information comes from the shape of the molecules involved, which in turn comes from the shape of the outer valence shells of the atoms involved. That shape, of course, comes from the basic forces that hold all matter together.
There is no intelligence needed for a snowflake to form, no knobs that need tweaking to make sure it forms in a given way; it comes from the physical structure of the components that make it up. Likewise, there is no intelligence needed for life to form; the processes that give rise to life come from the basic interactions between chemicals that we see in many other places in the world.
Now, you could claim that "God set the Planck constant" (or some other physical constant.) Which is fine; that's not provable one way or the other at that point. But once you do that you've admitted that life arose from the same basic processes that form crystals or rust - again, no intelligence required, just physical processes that have been in play for a few billion years now.
>to originate from somewhere.
Ding ding! You got it! That information comes from the shape of the molecules involved, which in turn comes from the shape of the outer valence shells of the atoms involved. That shape, of course, comes from the basic forces that hold all matter together.
There is no intelligence needed for a snowflake to form, no knobs that need tweaking to make sure it forms in a given way; it comes from the physical structure of the components that make it up. Likewise, there is no intelligence needed for life to form; the processes that give rise to life come from the basic interactions between chemicals that we see in many other places in the world.
Now, you could claim that "God set the Planck constant" (or some other physical constant.) Which is fine; that's not provable one way or the other at that point. But once you do that you've admitted that life arose from the same basic processes that form crystals or rust - again, no intelligence required, just physical processes that have been in play for a few billion years now.
Kmart 0
QuoteQuoteI can now say... Fuck God! Fuck Jesus, Fuck the bible! Fuck all religions! .. I can say that without fear. It's kind of fun. You should try it.
QuoteBut because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:
(Romans 2:5,6)
Your day will come.
Just thought I would share this bit of comical genius with you. "His day came". He brought laughter to many, sometimes at the expense of religion. Lol
http://youtu.be/MeSSwKffj9o
Kmart 0
QuoteQuoteQuote
Your day will come.
No... it wont
Actually it will.
I'm fairly certain it wont involve going to hell or being judged,
but your day will come
I know, I just meant not the day he was referring to
QuoteQuoteYour day will come, Anne Frank!!
Fixed it for you...
I don't require your help Steve.
I'm beginning to think that you're beyond help.
![[:/]](/uploads/emoticons/dry.png "[:/]"){kind=small}
"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."
tkhayes 145
QuoteTK I was not referring to you.
no, I know that, but you did 'generalize' that anger was coming from the atheists and not from the Christians.....I do not see it that way
maadmax 0
I don't live in fear anymore. I no longer have to fear eternal suffering in hell or eternal boredom in heaven. My life now has more meaning because this life is ALL I HAVE. Make the most of it! The thought of living on for all eternity kind of makes this life pretty pointless.
The Church profits from fear. It's their cash cow. The more people that help spread that fear the more people that get infected and become slaves to it and the church profits even more. Suffering for all eternity in hell was an absolute genius marketing ploy I have to admit. Fill them full of fear then sell them hope. CHA-CHING$$$$$$
I love knowing there is no "plan" for me. My destiny is mine to make. I decide my fate. That is so empowering I can't describe. I am no longer a slave to fear since I unbrainwashed myself from religion. I am FREE!
The truth = There is no god. The Bible is fiction.
I can now say... Fuck God! Fuck Jesus, Fuck the bible! Fuck all religions! .. I can say that without fear. It's kind of fun. You should try it. :p
I can prove God doesn't exist:
GOD, if you exist please strike me dead this instant! I DARE YOU! I DOUBLE DOG DARE YOU!
The Church profits from fear. It's their cash cow. The more people that help spread that fear the more people that get infected and become slaves to it and the church profits even more. Suffering for all eternity in hell was an absolute genius marketing ploy I have to admit. Fill them full of fear then sell them hope. CHA-CHING$$$$$$
I love knowing there is no "plan" for me. My destiny is mine to make. I decide my fate. That is so empowering I can't describe. I am no longer a slave to fear since I unbrainwashed myself from religion. I am FREE!
The truth = There is no god. The Bible is fiction.
I can now say... Fuck God! Fuck Jesus, Fuck the bible! Fuck all religions! .. I can say that without fear. It's kind of fun. You should try it. :p
I can prove God doesn't exist:
GOD, if you exist please strike me dead this instant! I DARE YOU! I DOUBLE DOG DARE YOU!
I can see you have experienced a lot of pain and disillusionment in regards to religion. I can understand and compliment you for standing on your own and forming your own opinions. Hopefully you will pass through this cloud and be able to understand your spiritual nature as it was meant to be, one with God. In the mean time, I agree, honesty to yourself and your feelings is your best bet.
...
RonD1120 58
Quote
It seems a shame to suffer from another person's good fortune.
I realize that, if a junkie offers me heroin, it is the nicest thing he can do. The smack is what makes life for him worthwhile, and the day to day indignities tolerable.
It does not dawn upon the junkie that becoming like him is a truly repellent prospect.
"You're just jealous, since I got the dope and you don't."
"Thanks, but you can have mine."
As crutches go, religion has a lot less to recommend it than narcotics or alcohol.
Going from one disease of denial to another is hardly admirable.
BSBD,
Winsor
In all the years I worked with those folks diagnosed co-occurring substance use disorder, I never once found an addict who believed his addiction to be good fortune. Furthermore, addicts do not share their drug of choice easily.
Your analogy is weak, probably due to your lack of understanding of the subject.
To state your belief that religion has less to offer than narcotics or alcohol is grossly ignorant and just plain silly.
You must have been tired when you responded to me. Your razor sharp wit appears dulled. Please do not allow yourself to slip into the same category as the other nitwits.
On the other hand, my description of human motivation is right on target. I used your words back at you and left you without adequate defense.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
RonD1120 58
Quote
Wanna see hate? Take a look at RodD and his rants about killing people in the name of God.
Your oft used phrase, "You Christians can shut the fuck up." You post this for many topics other than religion in government.
If you are going rag on me, my user name is RonD1120.
I have stated that the military is ordered to kill the declared enemy. As a Christian I can do that because the Bible instructs us to follow the law of the government. See Romans in the NT. As a Christian I can also kill someone who threatens the safety of me or my family. That is called survival.
Show me where I have gone on a rant about killing people in the name of God.
What sends me into a rant is someone who comes into my house uninvited with muddy feet and then pisses in the corner and tells me he doesn't like the way I run my house.
That is an analogy in American vernacular. Comprendo?
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
tkhayes 145
QuoteI have stated that the military is ordered to kill the declared enemy. As a Christian I can do that because the Bible instructs us to follow the law of the government. See Romans in the NT. As a Christian I can also kill someone who threatens the safety of me or my family. That is called survival.
Show me where I have gone on a rant about killing people in the name of God.
you just did.
Does the Bible also instruct you to go out of your way to 'screw' people and businesses behind their back? And you know exactly what I am talking about.
It's OK Ron, I know who you are and what you represent - and you know who I am and what I represent, and I doubt we will ever see eye to eye.
As long as you keep your frickin' religion out of my government, we might actually get along, despite our differences.
mnealtx 0
QuoteAs long as you keep your frickin' religion out of my government,
You're so cute when you think you have a point.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
jakee 1,271
QuoteAs a Christian I can do that because the Bible instructs us to follow the law of the government. See Romans in the NT.
So the guards at Dachau were following Christian teachings? The Iraqi soldiers who deployed chemical weapons against Kurdish civilians were following Christian teachings? Iranian soldiers shooting into unarmed crowds of pro-democracy protestors were following christian teachings while the protestors themselves weren't?
Do you want to have an ideagasm?
Kmart 0
QuoteI don't live in fear anymore. I no longer have to fear eternal suffering in hell or eternal boredom in heaven. My life now has more meaning because this life is ALL I HAVE. Make the most of it! The thought of living on for all eternity kind of makes this life pretty pointless.
The Church profits from fear. It's their cash cow. The more people that help spread that fear the more people that get infected and become slaves to it and the church profits even more. Suffering for all eternity in hell was an absolute genius marketing ploy I have to admit. Fill them full of fear then sell them hope. CHA-CHING$$$$$$
I love knowing there is no "plan" for me. My destiny is mine to make. I decide my fate. That is so empowering I can't describe. I am no longer a slave to fear since I unbrainwashed myself from religion. I am FREE!
The truth = There is no god. The Bible is fiction.
I can now say... Fuck God! Fuck Jesus, Fuck the bible! Fuck all religions! .. I can say that without fear. It's kind of fun. You should try it. :p
I can prove God doesn't exist:
GOD, if you exist please strike me dead this instant! I DARE YOU! I DOUBLE DOG DARE YOU!
I can see you have experienced a lot of pain and disillusionment in regards to religion. I can understand and compliment you for standing on your own and forming your own opinions. Hopefully you will pass through this cloud and be able to understand your spiritual nature as it was meant to be, one with God. In the mean time, I agree, honesty to yourself and your feelings is your best bet.
...
Lol, nope your wrong again. I have no "pain" toward religion. I simply no longer believe in fairy tales and Bronze age mythology. Why is this so hard for you to understand? Typical Christian thinks there is some deep resentment causing me to lash out against religion blah blah blah. Like I am angry at god or something. God doesnt exist so how can I be angry with him. I am as angry at god as I am angry at Santa Clause, Frosty the Snowman and Leprechans. They all have equal status with god as far as i am concerned. All fictional characters.
It's really just this simple: I DO NOT BELIEVE IN BULLSHIT FAIRY TALES. THE BIBLE IS FICTION.
Why is that so hard for christians to comprehend that someone can truely and simply NOT BELIEVE?
I will never be "one with god" because there is no god to be one with. Get it?
Actually it will.
I'm fairly certain it wont involve going to hell or being judged,
but your day will come
My mighty steed
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