dreamdancer 0 #176 May 23, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote you asked to see the arab peace plan and i gave some info on it... You're a joke Dream, and you're a comedian "And now, Netanyahu prefers confrontation. and he's got a big red button to push. he must feel very powerful...stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #177 May 23, 2011 QuoteYou probably didn't look the Israeli ones up though did you? I'm pretty sure that he didn't. But he and others could if they were interested. http://www.btselem.org/English/Video/CDP_Index.asp http://www.btselem.org/English/Video/Index.asp Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dmcoco84 4 #178 May 23, 2011 Quote i'll just laugh at your miscomprehension instead (meanwhile the 1967 borders draw closer for israel) Its ok dream... we all know who you are. I like how on the Muslim Brotherhood website: In English - Has a picture of a woman () and "Freedom" In Arabic - Crossed Swords... and the word, Prepare, underneath, in Arabic. Prepare... for what? War, possibly? The great thing about Israel... Everyone is Aware. And, everyone has been in the military, so everyone can fight. As Netanyahu said... History will not give the Jewish people another chance. I'll be posting more later... but not in your thread. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dmcoco84 4 #179 May 23, 2011 QuoteWhat are you trying to prove with those links? That we should kill all arabs before they kill all jews? A buddy I sky jump with, and who my dad jumped with yesterday... is Palestinian. His best friend, is a Conservative Jew. No. I don't think we should "kill all the Arabs." And I highly doubt he wants to kill any Jews. But when 70% of Egyptians want to end the Peace Treaty with Israel... and say they hate Israel, and they hate the US... you don't give away lands that prevent you from protecting yourself. Regardless of Syria, Iran, Lebanon and Egypt... with Hamas in power in Gaza... its not gonna happen. You are... Dreaming. And if Israel falls... the United States is next. I'm done with this thread... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #180 May 23, 2011 Quote And if Israel falls... the United States is next. I'm done with this thread... you go get help for that paranoia...stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dmcoco84 4 #181 May 23, 2011 Mm... and there were those that said the same, when concern was voiced over Osama's words. "Bodies and blood in the streets of New York." Yup... just Paranoia. Personally... I take people at their word, even more so now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #182 May 23, 2011 toddle along now (boo! don't worry it's not the bogieman - just me saying boo) stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deltron80 0 #183 May 23, 2011 QuoteQuoteWhat are you trying to prove with those links? That we should kill all arabs before they kill all jews? A buddy I sky jump with, and who my dad jumped with yesterday... is Palestinian. His best friend, is a Conservative Jew. No. I don't think we should "kill all the Arabs." And I highly doubt he wants to kill any Jews. But when 70% of Egyptians want to end the Peace Treaty with Israel... and say they hate Israel, and they hate the US... you don't give away lands that prevent you from protecting yourself. Regardless of Syria, Iran, Lebanon and Egypt... with Hamas in power in Gaza... its not gonna happen. You are... Dreaming. And if Israel falls... the United States is next. I'm done with this thread... Israel won't fall so you can relax. They will never give up land, they will only continue to grow. They will eventually take the other side of the Jordan river as that is their natural boundary. The only people who need be concerned are any people not of the Jewish faith living anywhere inside this new country. Israel is far from on the verge of being pushed into the sea. As you yourself pointed out they are very militarized and are the most powerful country in the region. You can stop worrying about them! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grimmie 177 #184 May 23, 2011 Why are you guys even debating this? Glenn Beck is on his way with the "Courage" tour to save the day. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #185 May 23, 2011 Quote Israel is far from on the verge of being pushed into the sea. As you yourself pointed out they are very militarized and are the most powerful country in the region. You can stop worrying about them! for a country their size, it only takes about 2 nukes to end their existence in any meaningful way. Iran, who is rather open about their wish to end Israel's existence and funds the war against it, is quite eager to get nukes. Would they be the first nation to use nukes since 1945? Unlikely. But if you're Israel, you hardly want to trust your continued existence to conventional political science game theory on the use of force. The US is in a different ballpark, with the benefit of size and large oceans separating us from all but a few nations. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #186 May 23, 2011 QuoteQuote Israel is far from on the verge of being pushed into the sea. As you yourself pointed out they are very militarized and are the most powerful country in the region. You can stop worrying about them! for a country their size, it only takes about 2 nukes to end their existence in any meaningful way. they'd better opt for peace then... (perhaps give up their own nuclear weapons as a first step - nuclear weapons which could easily destroy iran)stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #187 May 23, 2011 Quote (perhaps give up their own nuclear weapons as a first step - nuclear weapons which could easily destroy iran) those nukes ended the 1973 war, and have prevented any nation from directly attacking since. What fucking idiot would one have to be to give that up? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #188 May 23, 2011 QuoteQuote (perhaps give up their own nuclear weapons as a first step - nuclear weapons which could easily destroy iran) those nukes ended the 1973 war, and have prevented any nation from directly attacking since. What fucking idiot would one have to be to give that up? and what fucking idiot country wouldn't aim to get nukes then. they win wars. iran is not an idiot country. iran will get nuclear weapons (same as india, south africa, north korea, pakistan etc...)stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #189 May 23, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuote Israel is far from on the verge of being pushed into the sea. As you yourself pointed out they are very militarized and are the most powerful country in the region. You can stop worrying about them! for a country their size, it only takes about 2 nukes to end their existence in any meaningful way. they'd better opt for peace then... (perhaps give up their own nuclear weapons as a first step - nuclear weapons which could easily destroy iran) Considier for just a moment with that brain of yours that Israel has had them since the 1960's and have never used them I would tend to trust them not to use them on non Jews.. in the forseeable future unless one was used on them, at which time you can kiss Beirut, Teheran, and Damascus at the very least buh bye. On the other hand.... do you really want to trust the psychotic types like Ahkgivemeadickjob or the Imam's who were pulling his strings to not use them on non-muslims if they had even an ounce of deniability on using them on Israel or any of the other non-believers as they define them in Western Europe or the US??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #190 May 23, 2011 iran will get nuclear weapons whether you like it or not. deal with it and stop whining...stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #191 May 23, 2011 Quoteiran will get nuclear weapons whether you like it or not. deal with it and stop whining... Not gonna happen... if they do get a facility even CLOSE to making a weapon.. it will vanish in a thermonuclear flash.. preemptively. Personally until they decide to join the world as a peaceful nation and quit trying to export that wonderful jihad mentality... that is a good thing. They have been fostering death and destruction for 30 years around this planet... a recconing is in order Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #192 May 23, 2011 QuoteQuoteiran will get nuclear weapons whether you like it or not. deal with it and stop whining... Not gonna happen... if they do get a facility even CLOSE to making a weapon.. it will vanish in a thermonuclear flash.. preemptively. lovely - another world war. what a brilliant strategy...stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #193 May 23, 2011 Quoteiran will get nuclear weapons whether you like it or not. deal with it and stop whining... it may...though they suffered an embarrassing setback with that engineered computer virus destroying their equipment. But this doesn't really help your argument of the minute. Israel isn't safer in a ME with no nuclear powers, and it certainly isn't safer giving up its own while watching Iran build some. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #194 May 23, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteiran will get nuclear weapons whether you like it or not. deal with it and stop whining... Not gonna happen... if they do get a facility even CLOSE to making a weapon.. it will vanish in a thermonuclear flash.. preemptively. lovely - another world war. what a brilliant strategy... If you do not think that the Iranians will use a nuclear weapon should they acquire one then you are suffering a rather overabundance of ignorance of what they believe to be in the best interests of spreading their Islamic revolution no matter the cost. The closest target for that would be Israel.. but you can bet your tiny little bippy that all the non-believers of Europe are valid targets as well, since you are easier to target than the US is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #195 May 23, 2011 QuoteQuote for a country their size, it only takes about 2 nukes to end their existence in any meaningful way. Iran, who is rather open about their wish to end Israel's existence and funds the war against it, is quite eager to get nukes. Both statements are accurate. However stealing additional land in the West Bank won't protect Israel from a nuclear weapon (leave that to the US). But ceasing the expansion of Israel and working towards a mutually agreed upon border will go a long way towards defusing hostilities. We've allowed Israel to effectively expand its borders. We've said for decades that it should stop but we haven't had a President who didn't say it without a wink and a nod. I'd like to think that the current one is serious. However he's let me down before. Lobbyists are a bitch. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites muff528 3 #196 May 24, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuote for a country their size, it only takes about 2 nukes to end their existence in any meaningful way. Iran, who is rather open about their wish to end Israel's existence and funds the war against it, is quite eager to get nukes. Both statements are accurate. However stealing additional land in the West Bank won't protect Israel from a nuclear weapon (leave that to the US). But ceasing the expansion of Israel and working towards a mutually agreed upon border will go a long way towards defusing hostilities. We've allowed Israel to effectively expand its borders. We've said for decades that it should stop but we haven't had a President who didn't say it with a wink and a nod. I'd like to think that the current one is serious. However he's let me down before. Lobbyists are a bitch. Since the 1967 war Israel has returned all but the West Bank and the Golan Heights. It appears that they stopped their "expansion" on the 6th day of the war and since then have, in good faith, returned the Sinai Peninsula and Gaza ...a large part of the lands that were provided by three foreign countries to build up and prepare for a massive invasion against Israel and its Jewish and Arab citizens under the pretense that they were fighting for the freedom of the Palestinian people. There is zero evidence that Israel is planning any further expansion. Never happened before 1967 and hasn't happened since. Jordan, Syria, Egypt (and maybe a few other Arab countries) should use a smidgen of there vast wealth and throw a few crumbs to their Palestinian prisoners living in squalid conditions in the many concentration camps in their countries. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #197 May 24, 2011 Quote Both statements are accurate. However stealing additional land in the West Bank won't protect Israel from a nuclear weapon (leave that to the US). But ceasing the expansion of Israel and working towards a mutually agreed upon border will go a long way towards defusing hostilities. We've allowed Israel to effectively expand its borders. We've said for decades that it should stop but we haven't had a President who didn't say it without a wink and a nod. I'd like to think that the current one is serious. However he's let me down before. Lobbyists are a bitch. the problem isn't lobbyists, it's his lack of conviction. He shouldn't stick his foot in his mouth like he did on Thursday unless he's going to actually see it through for a change. Not sure how Israel can unilaterally cease hostilities. The other side has proven that they will respond to this with more rockets. Until the opposition will all acknowledge Israel's right to exist, it has no reason to expect better. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites idrankwhat 0 #198 May 24, 2011 Quote Since the 1967 war Israel has returned all but the West Bank and the Golan Heights. It appears that they stopped their "expansion" on the 6th day of the war and since then have, in good faith, returned the Sinai Peninsula and Gaza ...... Sorry to be so short. Busy, but. “Everybody has to move; run and grab as many hilltops as they can to enlarge the settlements, because everything we take now will stay ours. Everything we don't grab will go to them.” --Ariel Sharon. This has been the policy that Israel has pursued in the last decade and a half and that the US has enabled, against its own declarations. edited for punctuation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites muff528 3 #199 May 24, 2011 QuoteQuote Since the 1967 war Israel has returned all but the West Bank and the Golan Heights. It appears that they stopped their "expansion" on the 6th day of the war and since then have, in good faith, returned the Sinai Peninsula and Gaza ...... Sorry to be so short. Busy, but. “Everybody has to move; run and grab as many hilltops as they can to enlarge the settlements, because everything we take now will stay ours. Everything we don't grab will go to them.” --Ariel Sharon. This has been the policy that Israel has pursued in the last decade and a half and that the US has enabled, against it's own declarations. Problem with arguments like in this thread are that there is disagreement as to whether the lands acquired in the 1967 war now belong to Israel or not. Some of us believe they were forfeited by aggressors by something like a "right of conquest" and others believe that they were acquired through illegal expansionism. Obviously, I think they were parts of ...and were lost in battle by Jordan, Syria and Egypt and never were part of any sovereign "Palestine" (other than the "British Mandate of Palestine" which also includes the current Jordan). Others believe they were the homeland for the Palestinian people and were taken unjustly and possibly by design by Israel (without regard to the fact that Jordan, Syria and Egypt never saw fit to offer the lands to the Palestinian people for an autonomous homeland). So we'll have to disagree there. As far as Sharon's position, I'm sure that there are varied views by Israel's leaders on the subject just as there are 2 or 3 different positions on issues by politicians in this country. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites idrankwhat 0 #200 May 24, 2011 Quote the problem isn't lobbyists, it's his lack of conviction. He shouldn't stick his foot in his mouth like he did on Thursday unless he's going to actually see it through for a change. Lobbyists run our country. This isn't much different. I can only hope that this President is serious. Like other big ideas such as energy, health care and financial reform, it may cost him his Presidency if he tries to go for too much too fast. Quote Not sure how Israel can unilaterally cease hostilities. The other side has proven that they will respond to this with more rockets. Until the opposition will all acknowledge Israel's right to exist, it has no reason to expect better. Neither side can end hostilities overnight. The framework has to be put in place and pursued regardless of the response by the fanatical fringe. Some say Israel has no right to exist. Others say that the Palestinian "problem" needs to be solved so Israel can encompass the Kingdom of David. That's where real leaders come into play. Both sides need to treat the the other as human and quit with the "my kind of human is better that your type of human". 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muff528 3 #196 May 24, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuote for a country their size, it only takes about 2 nukes to end their existence in any meaningful way. Iran, who is rather open about their wish to end Israel's existence and funds the war against it, is quite eager to get nukes. Both statements are accurate. However stealing additional land in the West Bank won't protect Israel from a nuclear weapon (leave that to the US). But ceasing the expansion of Israel and working towards a mutually agreed upon border will go a long way towards defusing hostilities. We've allowed Israel to effectively expand its borders. We've said for decades that it should stop but we haven't had a President who didn't say it with a wink and a nod. I'd like to think that the current one is serious. However he's let me down before. Lobbyists are a bitch. Since the 1967 war Israel has returned all but the West Bank and the Golan Heights. It appears that they stopped their "expansion" on the 6th day of the war and since then have, in good faith, returned the Sinai Peninsula and Gaza ...a large part of the lands that were provided by three foreign countries to build up and prepare for a massive invasion against Israel and its Jewish and Arab citizens under the pretense that they were fighting for the freedom of the Palestinian people. There is zero evidence that Israel is planning any further expansion. Never happened before 1967 and hasn't happened since. Jordan, Syria, Egypt (and maybe a few other Arab countries) should use a smidgen of there vast wealth and throw a few crumbs to their Palestinian prisoners living in squalid conditions in the many concentration camps in their countries. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #197 May 24, 2011 Quote Both statements are accurate. However stealing additional land in the West Bank won't protect Israel from a nuclear weapon (leave that to the US). But ceasing the expansion of Israel and working towards a mutually agreed upon border will go a long way towards defusing hostilities. We've allowed Israel to effectively expand its borders. We've said for decades that it should stop but we haven't had a President who didn't say it without a wink and a nod. I'd like to think that the current one is serious. However he's let me down before. Lobbyists are a bitch. the problem isn't lobbyists, it's his lack of conviction. He shouldn't stick his foot in his mouth like he did on Thursday unless he's going to actually see it through for a change. Not sure how Israel can unilaterally cease hostilities. The other side has proven that they will respond to this with more rockets. Until the opposition will all acknowledge Israel's right to exist, it has no reason to expect better. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites idrankwhat 0 #198 May 24, 2011 Quote Since the 1967 war Israel has returned all but the West Bank and the Golan Heights. It appears that they stopped their "expansion" on the 6th day of the war and since then have, in good faith, returned the Sinai Peninsula and Gaza ...... Sorry to be so short. Busy, but. “Everybody has to move; run and grab as many hilltops as they can to enlarge the settlements, because everything we take now will stay ours. Everything we don't grab will go to them.” --Ariel Sharon. This has been the policy that Israel has pursued in the last decade and a half and that the US has enabled, against its own declarations. edited for punctuation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites muff528 3 #199 May 24, 2011 QuoteQuote Since the 1967 war Israel has returned all but the West Bank and the Golan Heights. It appears that they stopped their "expansion" on the 6th day of the war and since then have, in good faith, returned the Sinai Peninsula and Gaza ...... Sorry to be so short. Busy, but. “Everybody has to move; run and grab as many hilltops as they can to enlarge the settlements, because everything we take now will stay ours. Everything we don't grab will go to them.” --Ariel Sharon. This has been the policy that Israel has pursued in the last decade and a half and that the US has enabled, against it's own declarations. Problem with arguments like in this thread are that there is disagreement as to whether the lands acquired in the 1967 war now belong to Israel or not. Some of us believe they were forfeited by aggressors by something like a "right of conquest" and others believe that they were acquired through illegal expansionism. Obviously, I think they were parts of ...and were lost in battle by Jordan, Syria and Egypt and never were part of any sovereign "Palestine" (other than the "British Mandate of Palestine" which also includes the current Jordan). Others believe they were the homeland for the Palestinian people and were taken unjustly and possibly by design by Israel (without regard to the fact that Jordan, Syria and Egypt never saw fit to offer the lands to the Palestinian people for an autonomous homeland). So we'll have to disagree there. As far as Sharon's position, I'm sure that there are varied views by Israel's leaders on the subject just as there are 2 or 3 different positions on issues by politicians in this country. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites idrankwhat 0 #200 May 24, 2011 Quote the problem isn't lobbyists, it's his lack of conviction. He shouldn't stick his foot in his mouth like he did on Thursday unless he's going to actually see it through for a change. Lobbyists run our country. This isn't much different. I can only hope that this President is serious. Like other big ideas such as energy, health care and financial reform, it may cost him his Presidency if he tries to go for too much too fast. Quote Not sure how Israel can unilaterally cease hostilities. The other side has proven that they will respond to this with more rockets. Until the opposition will all acknowledge Israel's right to exist, it has no reason to expect better. Neither side can end hostilities overnight. The framework has to be put in place and pursued regardless of the response by the fanatical fringe. Some say Israel has no right to exist. Others say that the Palestinian "problem" needs to be solved so Israel can encompass the Kingdom of David. That's where real leaders come into play. Both sides need to treat the the other as human and quit with the "my kind of human is better that your type of human". 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kelpdiver 2 #197 May 24, 2011 Quote Both statements are accurate. However stealing additional land in the West Bank won't protect Israel from a nuclear weapon (leave that to the US). But ceasing the expansion of Israel and working towards a mutually agreed upon border will go a long way towards defusing hostilities. We've allowed Israel to effectively expand its borders. We've said for decades that it should stop but we haven't had a President who didn't say it without a wink and a nod. I'd like to think that the current one is serious. However he's let me down before. Lobbyists are a bitch. the problem isn't lobbyists, it's his lack of conviction. He shouldn't stick his foot in his mouth like he did on Thursday unless he's going to actually see it through for a change. Not sure how Israel can unilaterally cease hostilities. The other side has proven that they will respond to this with more rockets. Until the opposition will all acknowledge Israel's right to exist, it has no reason to expect better. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #198 May 24, 2011 Quote Since the 1967 war Israel has returned all but the West Bank and the Golan Heights. It appears that they stopped their "expansion" on the 6th day of the war and since then have, in good faith, returned the Sinai Peninsula and Gaza ...... Sorry to be so short. Busy, but. “Everybody has to move; run and grab as many hilltops as they can to enlarge the settlements, because everything we take now will stay ours. Everything we don't grab will go to them.” --Ariel Sharon. This has been the policy that Israel has pursued in the last decade and a half and that the US has enabled, against its own declarations. edited for punctuation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
muff528 3 #199 May 24, 2011 QuoteQuote Since the 1967 war Israel has returned all but the West Bank and the Golan Heights. It appears that they stopped their "expansion" on the 6th day of the war and since then have, in good faith, returned the Sinai Peninsula and Gaza ...... Sorry to be so short. Busy, but. “Everybody has to move; run and grab as many hilltops as they can to enlarge the settlements, because everything we take now will stay ours. Everything we don't grab will go to them.” --Ariel Sharon. This has been the policy that Israel has pursued in the last decade and a half and that the US has enabled, against it's own declarations. Problem with arguments like in this thread are that there is disagreement as to whether the lands acquired in the 1967 war now belong to Israel or not. Some of us believe they were forfeited by aggressors by something like a "right of conquest" and others believe that they were acquired through illegal expansionism. Obviously, I think they were parts of ...and were lost in battle by Jordan, Syria and Egypt and never were part of any sovereign "Palestine" (other than the "British Mandate of Palestine" which also includes the current Jordan). Others believe they were the homeland for the Palestinian people and were taken unjustly and possibly by design by Israel (without regard to the fact that Jordan, Syria and Egypt never saw fit to offer the lands to the Palestinian people for an autonomous homeland). So we'll have to disagree there. As far as Sharon's position, I'm sure that there are varied views by Israel's leaders on the subject just as there are 2 or 3 different positions on issues by politicians in this country. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #200 May 24, 2011 Quote the problem isn't lobbyists, it's his lack of conviction. He shouldn't stick his foot in his mouth like he did on Thursday unless he's going to actually see it through for a change. Lobbyists run our country. This isn't much different. I can only hope that this President is serious. Like other big ideas such as energy, health care and financial reform, it may cost him his Presidency if he tries to go for too much too fast. Quote Not sure how Israel can unilaterally cease hostilities. The other side has proven that they will respond to this with more rockets. Until the opposition will all acknowledge Israel's right to exist, it has no reason to expect better. Neither side can end hostilities overnight. The framework has to be put in place and pursued regardless of the response by the fanatical fringe. Some say Israel has no right to exist. Others say that the Palestinian "problem" needs to be solved so Israel can encompass the Kingdom of David. That's where real leaders come into play. Both sides need to treat the the other as human and quit with the "my kind of human is better that your type of human". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
