dreamdancer 0 #151 May 23, 2011 QuoteNine years ago, the 22 Arab League countries submitted a proposal for ending the conflict with the Palestinians and for full normalization with them. The leaders of the people that insist on being persecuted chose not to confuse themselves with the fact that 22 Arab countries were recognizing Israel and accepting its right to exist in peace alongside them. That is why our leaders simply ignored it. To the point where barely 15 percent of the Israeli public is even aware of the existence of the Arab initiative. That is why on Thursday, when we, members of the Israeli peace initiative delegation, presented the Egyptian foreign minister with the initiative that for the first time responds to the Arab peace initiative, he rightly said: For nine years the initiative has been on the table. Now you remembered? The reality, Mr. President, is that change - thanks to which you were elected, and in which you believe - is the thing that Israel in general and Netanyahu in particular fear most. The reality is that the State of Israel has become accustomed to the present situation and does not recognize itself without it. Israel has existed longer with the occupation than without it; it has existed for most of its years with no border and is deathly afraid of change. The reality is that Netanyahu never wanted or thought to initiate change. When he was elected two years ago, he understood that in order not to initiate change, he would have to play at negotiations that lead nowhere. But alas, there was nobody in the White House who would play this nice little game with him, and his true colors were exposed: He wants settlements, he wants occupation, he wants the situation as it is and sees no problem with it. And now, Netanyahu prefers confrontation. Confrontation with you, confrontation with the Palestinians, confrontation with anyone he sees as coming out against the persecuted people. The reality is simply that confrontation we already know, Mr. President, but peace we do not know at all. http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/the-israeli-reality-that-obama-doesn-t-understand-1.363442stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #152 May 23, 2011 There's really no point in you trying to have a conversation via posting links. I don't read them anyway. If you have a point to make and are incapable of making it, then just say so. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #153 May 23, 2011 you asked to see the arab peace plan and i gave some info on it...stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #154 May 23, 2011 Quoteyou asked to see the arab peace plan and i gave some info on it... The very first sentence disqualifies it. I asked for the Palestinian Peace Plan. I don't see a single detail either. I asked for something that says "If Israel will do XXX then the rocket attacks etc. will end. Search all you want, it doesn't exist. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #155 May 23, 2011 same thing...stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #156 May 23, 2011 Quotesame thing... I edited my post apparently after you responded. It is not the same thing. Why are 22 Arab countries submitting a Peace Plan for the Palestinians? Where is the plan FROM the Palestinians? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #157 May 23, 2011 QuoteAlthough a number of Israeli officials have responded to the Initiative with both support and criticism, the Israeli state is yet to formulate an official response. Former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert expressed reservations over the plan and invited Arab leaders to discuss them, but welcomed the initiative as a "new way of thinking, the willingness to recognize Israel as an established fact and to debate the conditions of the future solution, is a step that I can't help but appreciate." In 2007, Benjamin Netanyahu, as opposition leader, as well as a number of Likud members, rejected the initiative outright. In 2009, President Shimon Peres expressed satisfaction at the "u-turn" in the attitudes of Arab states toward peace with Israel as reflected in the Saudi initiative, though he did qualify his comments by saying: "Israel wasn't a partner to the wording of this initiative. Therefore it doesn't have to agree to every word." The Palestinian Authority strongly supports the plan and Mahmoud Abbas officially asked President Barack Obama to adopt it as part of his Middle East policy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Peace_Initiativestay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #158 May 23, 2011 i expect you feel a bit of a sillybilly now...stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #159 May 23, 2011 QuoteIn terms of public opinion, the Oxford Research Group has reported that attitudes range "between those who have never heard of it, and those who don't believe a word of it." A November–December 2008 poll by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research in Ramallah and the Harry S. Truman Research Institute for the Advancement of Peace in Jerusalem found that only 36% of Israelis support the plan. A June 2008 Angus Reid Global Monitor poll found that about 67% of Palestinians and 39% of Israelis support it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Peace_Initiativestay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wsd 0 #160 May 23, 2011 You cannot fathom that the ARAB LEAGUE is not the Palestinian Authority. Try reading that a dozen times and it may sink in. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #161 May 23, 2011 QuoteThe Arab Peace Plan has received the full support of Mahmoud Abbas and the Palestinian Authority, which even took the unprecedented step of placing advertisements in Israeli newspapers on November 20, 2008 to promote it. The Palestinian Authority published full-page notices in Hebrew in four major Israeli daily newspapers, which reproduced the text of the Initiative in full and added that "Fifty-seven Arab and Islamic countries will establish diplomatic ties and normal relations with Israel in return for a full peace agreement and an end to the occupation." A November–December poll by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research in Ramallah and the Harry S. Truman Research Institute for the Advancement of Peace in Jerusalem found that only 25% of Israelis saw the ads and only 14% actually read them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Peace_Initiativestay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #162 May 23, 2011 QuoteThe Passover Massacre overshadowed the initial 2002 initiative,[12][19] and it initially derailed further progress on it.[10][15] Oslo Agreement negotiator Joel Singer commented shortly after the Beruit Summit that "the major problem with it is that it only called upon Israel to do a series of things and there was no call upon the Palestinians to stop terrorism."[ I imagine you are feeling a little silly right now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #163 May 23, 2011 QuoteQuoteThe Arab Peace Plan has received the full support of Mahmoud Abbas and the Palestinian Authority, which even took the unprecedented step of placing advertisements in Israeli newspapers on November 20, 2008 to promote it. The Palestinian Authority published full-page notices in Hebrew in four major Israeli daily newspapers, which reproduced the text of the Initiative in full and added that "Fifty-seven Arab and Islamic countries will establish diplomatic ties and normal relations with Israel in return for a full peace agreement and an end to the occupation." A November–December poll by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research in Ramallah and the Harry S. Truman Research Institute for the Advancement of Peace in Jerusalem found that only 25% of Israelis saw the ads and only 14% actually read them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Peace_Initiative Wiki nice source But in any event Does this peace plan address the right of return issue? Something you still have seen fit to ignore or not address"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #164 May 23, 2011 not really - obama is at last taking the right tack. we might even get peace ps. what nationality is joel singer? stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #165 May 23, 2011 Quote not really - obama is at last taking the right tack. we might even get peace ps. what nationality is joel singer? Except that's not what we are talking about. A simple "I was wrong and didn't know what I was talking about" will suffice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deltron80 0 #166 May 23, 2011 Quote Deltron80: Do you think that Jews have a right to live? Hmm... Yes of course I do think Jews have a right to live. I simply said that all the people who live in that area under Israeli control should have rights. Apparently you think that all people having rights and Jews being allowed to live are mutually exclusive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
muff528 3 #167 May 23, 2011 Quote..... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Peace_Initiative Ah, yes! ...the Arab Terms of Unconditional Surrender, AKA the Arab Peace Initiative (which was undermined "the day before the initiative was published"). Israel would abandon any claim to the forfeited territories of Golan Hts., the West Bank, and Gaza. Israel will turn over complete control of East Jerusalem to the Palestinians. Israel will honor the so-called "right of return" for "refugees" and their descendants. These are he same Arab League countries that immediately attacked Israel at the time of its independence and decried Israel's existence 20 years before they forfeited the "occupied territories" as a result of a similar aggression in 1967. Israel would be foolish to agree to these dictated terms. Also, the "Arab Spring" uprisings are in the process of changing governments of these nations in such a way that Israel can not expect any agreement to be honored by these countries. To be sure, Israel's days are numbered anyway. The only reason Israel even exists today is that the Arab League countries know that Israel (unlike the US, et al) doesn't fuck around when it comes to defense and war. But now Israel's allies are going flat and their adversaries are unifying and forming strong alliances with others. They are ridding themselves of despotic leaders that have been able to keep their anti-Israel hatred restrained and "un-unified" or disparate. The UN is mostly controlled by anti-Israel interests and has populated its laughable "Human Rights Commission" with either weak-kneed appeasers or openly anti-Jew members ...so no help there. The 1948 Palestinian "refugees" were shunned and denied entry into their Arab neighbors' countries after Israel purged their land of the Arab Liberation Army (which included many fighters from the Arab League, ex-Nazis, and other European and Balkan mercenaries and Jew-haters). Some of these "refugees" were either aiding the ALA or participating in the fighting and fled the scene. That evacuation from Israel was a direct result of actions by the Arab League and the ALA. Now their "benevolent and compassionate" Arab "brothers", who herded them like animals into internment camps in Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon, are demanding their repatriation as if they won a war or something. Quite the opposite. Disgusting. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #168 May 23, 2011 Quote "I was wrong and didn't know what I was talking about" agreed stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #169 May 23, 2011 Quote Quote "I was wrong and didn't know what I was talking about" agreed bout time you recogonized your errors"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dmcoco84 4 #170 May 23, 2011 Quote you asked to see the arab peace plan and i gave some info on it... You're a joke Dream, Seriously! Lets talk about the REAL... Arab plan, shall we? And from a better source... their words... on video. Yussaf al-Qaradawi - Has a weekly show called Shariah and Life - Watched by 40 million Muslims... WEEKLY. That's like game 7 of the world series... every, week. - 9th Most Influential Muslim... Source: THE 500 MOST INFLUENTIAL MUSLIMS http://www.rissc.jo/docs/1N-WithCovers%28lowres%29.pdf - Caused the Danish Cartoon riots in 2006 - After he spoke out against them, on his show. - Muslim Brotherhood (member) First video... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HStliOnVl6Q&feature=player_embedded Throughout history, Allah has imposed upon the [Jews] people who would punish them for their corruption. The last punishment was carried out by Hitler. By means of all the things he did to them—even though they exaggerated this issue—he managed to put them in their place. This was divine punishment for them. Allah willing, the next time will be at the hand of the believers. To conclude my speech, Id like to say that the only thing I hope for is that as my life approaches its end, Allah will give me the opportunity to go to the land of Jihad and resist, even if in a wheelchair. I will shoot Allah's enemies, the Jews. Second Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQdkLSO_l-8&feature=player_embedded "Oh Allah, do not spare a single one of them." "Oh Allah count their numbers, and kill them, down to the last one" "I support the resistance and the Jihad. I support Hamas, the Islamic Jihad, and Hizbullah" He also feels that beating your wife is a good thing! And what he says about homosexuals... well, you should just watch it. Its so kind and loving! Just... Downright Peaceful! Or... Yunis Al-Astal (Hamas member and cleric) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BF8jyNkSSM&feature=player_embedded "The [Jews] are brought in droves to Palestine so that the Palestinians – and the Islamic nation behind them – will have the honor of annihilating the evil of this gang." "All the predators, all the birds of prey, all the dangerous reptiles and insects, and all the lethal bacteria are far less dangerous than the Jews. "In just a few years, all the Zionists and the settlers will realize that their arrival in Palestine was for the purpose of the great massacre, by means of which Allah wants to relieve humanity of their evil." "When Palestine is liberated and its people return to it, and the entire region, with the grace of Allah, will have turned into the United States of Islam, the land of Palestine will become the capital of the Islamic Caliphate, and all these countries will turn into states within the Caliphate." Just a few Muslims right? Would you like some more? To conclude my post... Fuck the 1967 borders. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wsd 0 #171 May 23, 2011 Quote Quote you asked to see the arab peace plan and i gave some info on it... You're a joke Dream, Seriously! Lets talk about the REAL... Arab plan, shall we? And from a better source... their words... on video. Yussaf al-Qaradawi - Has a weekly show called Shariah and Life - Watched by 40 million Muslims... WEEKLY. That's like game 7 of the world series... every, week. - 9th Most Influential Muslim... Source: THE 500 MOST INFLUENTIAL MUSLIMS http://www.rissc.jo/docs/1N-WithCovers%28lowres%29.pdf - Caused the Danish Cartoon riots in 2006 - After he spoke out against them, on his show. - Muslim Brotherhood (member) First video... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HStliOnVl6Q&feature=player_embedded Throughout history, Allah has imposed upon the [Jews] people who would punish them for their corruption. The last punishment was carried out by Hitler. By means of all the things he did to them—even though they exaggerated this issue—he managed to put them in their place. This was divine punishment for them. Allah willing, the next time will be at the hand of the believers. To conclude my speech, Id like to say that the only thing I hope for is that as my life approaches its end, Allah will give me the opportunity to go to the land of Jihad and resist, even if in a wheelchair. I will shoot Allah's enemies, the Jews. Second Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQdkLSO_l-8&feature=player_embedded "Oh Allah, do not spare a single one of them." "Oh Allah count their numbers, and kill them, down to the last one" "I support the resistance and the Jihad. I support Hamas, the Islamic Jihad, and Hizbullah" He also feels that beating your wife is a good thing! And what he says about homosexuals... well, you should just watch it. Its so kind and loving! Just... Downright Peaceful! Or... Yunis Al-Astal (Hamas member and cleric) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BF8jyNkSSM&feature=player_embedded "The [Jews] are brought in droves to Palestine so that the Palestinians – and the Islamic nation behind them – will have the honor of annihilating the evil of this gang." "All the predators, all the birds of prey, all the dangerous reptiles and insects, and all the lethal bacteria are far less dangerous than the Jews. "In just a few years, all the Zionists and the settlers will realize that their arrival in Palestine was for the purpose of the great massacre, by means of which Allah wants to relieve humanity of their evil." "When Palestine is liberated and its people return to it, and the entire region, with the grace of Allah, will have turned into the United States of Islam, the land of Palestine will become the capital of the Islamic Caliphate, and all these countries will turn into states within the Caliphate." Just a few Muslims right? Would you like some more? To conclude my post... Fuck the 1967 borders. He will merely counter you with an almighty quote by wiki or alternet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #172 May 23, 2011 i'll just laugh at your miscomprehension instead (meanwhile the 1967 borders draw closer for israel) stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #173 May 23, 2011 Quote Quote you asked to see the arab peace plan and i gave some info on it... You're a joke Dream, and you're a comedian stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deltron80 0 #174 May 23, 2011 Jeez...I hope the rest of the world isn't judging us on our Sara Palins and Bill O'Reillys... I'm pretty sure there are radical elements on both sides calling for the extermination of the other side. You probably didn't look the Israeli ones up though did you? What are you trying to prove with those links? That we should kill all arabs before they kill all jews? I'm confused how this adds anything to the debate other than revealing the limited scope of your analysis of this issue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #175 May 23, 2011 Quote Quote Quote you asked to see the arab peace plan and i gave some info on it... You're a joke Dream, and you're a comedian "And now, Netanyahu prefers confrontation. Confrontation with you, confrontation with the Palestinians, confrontation with anyone he sees as coming out against the persecuted people." There's no business like Shoah business. mh ."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
