“They hate us because we are free”

[Darius11 12]

I wish, I really wish I could say these are the dumbest words and idea ever presented but unfortunately we tend to constantly up the stupidity, and we have plenty of people who eat that shit up.

So if the Egyptian people get what they want. A government for the people by the people, Do you think they will have some hate/dislike for the country who supported and supplied their dictator?


I have a feeling if we didn’t constantly hinder democracy and freedom in the Middle East as we have done for years there would not be so much fuel for the fire.

Can anyone really blame people for hating a country that has supported and supplied their pain?

What would we do?

I bring this up because this is right now and I know what fickle selective memories some of you have.
It will not be long before your minds overheat and simplify everything to black and white. Then I will have to hear the same ignorant shit over and over again. They hate us because we are free.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[mnealtx 0]

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I bring this up because this is right now and I know what fickle selective memories some of you have.
It will not be long before your minds overheat and simplify everything to black and white. Then I will have to hear the same ignorant shit over and over again. They hate us because we are free.

Remind us again how open-minded and fair you are in Israel/Palestine threads, will you?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Guest]

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I wish, I really wish I could say these are the dumbest words and idea ever presented but unfortunately we tend to constantly up the stupidity, and we have plenty of people who eat that shit up.

So if the Egyptian people get what they want. A government for the people by the people, Do you think they will have some hate/dislike for the country who supported and supplied their dictator?


I have a feeling if we didn’t constantly hinder democracy and freedom in the Middle East as we have done for years there would not be so much fuel for the fire.

Can anyone really blame people for hating a country that has supported and supplied their pain?

What would we do?

I bring this up because this is right now and I know what fickle selective memories some of you have.
It will not be long before your minds overheat and simplify everything to black and white. Then I will have to hear the same ignorant shit over and over again. They hate us because we are free.

Nice try.

They'll most likely have a bunch of corrupt, islamofascist thugs in place of the kleptocratic thug. And of course, they'll project everything wrong with their fucked-up country onto ours, half a world away and not really caring about them at all.

If we support democracy in Egypt (which we have been doing all along - or don't you believe the wikileaks communiques?) we're "interfering with their internal affairs", but if we don't, we're "supporting the oppressive regime" - Some things never change.

mh
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"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[Darius11 12]

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I bring this up because this is right now and I know what fickle selective memories some of you have.
It will not be long before your minds overheat and simplify everything to black and white. Then I will have to hear the same ignorant shit over and over again. They hate us because we are free.

Remind us again how open-minded and fair you are in Israel/Palestine threads, will you?

Remind me why you have nothing to add or say but feel the need to reply?

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Darius11 12]

Trust me your far goon to understand logic, the garbage you spew on a daily bases says I am not dealing with a rational person. Your opinion has no value to me as it is so polluted and filled with hate that you are simply a waist of time, a lost cause. My only hope is that you and people like you don’t infect the next generation.

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If we support democracy in Egypt (which we have been doing all along

here is simple logic 101

If you support the person who is oppressing the people who want rights and a democracy your NOT supporting democracy.

Seriosly??? can you at least try

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[nanook 1]

I believe that originated from the move "Easy Rider".

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

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I wish, I really wish I could say these are the dumbest words and idea ever presented but unfortunately we tend to constantly up the stupidity, yes, you do and we have plenty of people who eat that shit up.full yet?

So if the Egyptian people get what they want. A government for the people by the people, Do you think they will have some hate/dislike for the country who supported and supplied their dictator?Know one knows what they will have. Only time will tell. Until then the smart people wait, watch and hope


I have a feeling if we didn’t constantly hinder democracy and freedom in the Middle East as we have done for years there would not be so much fuel for the fire.You must be looking at a different middle east than I. Many are saying this week (including some Dems) that Bush was right to start the freedom fire in Iraq. Me? I dont know but I am still just watching

Can anyone really blame people for hating a country that has supported and supplied their pain?Who would that be?

What would we do?

I bring this up because this is right now and I know what fickle selective memories some of you have.
It will not be long before your minds overheat and simplify everything to black and white. Then I will have to hear the same ignorant shit over and over again. They hate us because we are free.

You may want to work on some of your own memories. Oh, and chill out so you can wait, watch and wonder

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Southern_Man 0]

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I wish, I really wish I could say these are the dumbest words and idea ever presented but unfortunately we tend to constantly up the stupidity, and we have plenty of people who eat that shit up.

You are right, far from the dumbest words or ideas.
Mostly an empty rhetorical slogan.

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I have a feeling if we didn’t constantly hinder democracy and freedom in the Middle East as we have done for years there would not be so much fuel for the fire.

Can anyone really blame people for hating a country that has supported and supplied their pain?

I think it is sort of a no win situation. People are going to dislike the U.S. because the U.S. is the biggest country on the block and out of self-interest (like every other country) try to influence events in other places in ways that are favorable to itself. In many cases I don't think the particular policies supported even matter much. It is the fact of outside interference from the biggest kid on the block that is resented.

In that sense it is like a lot of the criticism directed at, e.g. Wal-Mart. Yup, there is a lot that can be criticized (at both Wal-Mart and U.S. foreign policy) but if it was a smaller regional chain doing the same thing then it would go largely unnoticed.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[TriGirl 278]

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In many cases I don't think the particular policies supported even matter much. It is the fact of outside interference from the biggest kid on the block that is resented.

Or lack thereof, depending on the situation.

See the upside, and always wear your parachute! -- Christopher Titus

Shut Up & Jump!

[Guest]

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Trust me your far goon to understand logic, the garbage you spew on a daily bases says I am not dealing with a rational person. Your opinion has no value to me as it is so polluted and filled with hate that you are simply a waist of time, a lost cause. My only hope is that you and people like you don’t infect the next generation.

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If we support democracy in Egypt (which we have been doing all along

here is simple logic 101

If you support the person who is oppressing the people who want rights and a democracy your NOT supporting democracy.

Seriosly??? can you at least try

And ousting Saddam? What about that? Oh wait, that doesn't count because we supported him, but only until he was no longer useful to us.

Please read the following carefully. To make it easier for you I will capitalize and use bold type...

APART FROM IRAQ, THERE IS NOT A SINGLE ARAB COUNTRY THAT IS A DEMOCRACY. How is that the USA's fault?

Iraq will fall to the islamofascist thugs as soon as we leave, because their cult of death won't let them think for or govern themselves. Only when islam is overthrown and they emerge from the Dark Ages, will they ever see the torch on the hill, but no, they'll keep trying to drag the West down into the darkness. No thanks. QUIT BLAMING THE WEST!

mh
.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[JohnRich 4]

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So if the Egyptian people get what they want. A government for the people by the people, Do you think they will have some hate/dislike for the country who supported and supplied their dictator?

Well, Iran has become such a shining beacon of freedom, prosperity and human rights since the American-supported Shah was overthrown, I'm quite certain that Egypt can follow their fine example.

Damn those Americans for holding back the brown-skinned people!

[billvon 2,476]

>>It is the fact of outside interference from the biggest kid on the block that is
>>resented.

>Or lack thereof, depending on the situation.

Agreed. The twin arguments of "why are you interfering with us?" and "why are you helping them and not giving us as much help?" can both be solved in a pretty straightforward manner.

[popsjumper 2]

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Agreed. The twin arguments of "why are you interfering with us?" and "why are you helping them and not giving us as much help?" can both be solved in a pretty straightforward manner.

I'd go for that....with a caveat.

Your country, do what you want, I have no input.
But, screw with me and I'll stomp your ass.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[rushmc 18]

The reason I chose to wait and see is demonstrated by the extremes in the reporting and perspectives, claims and acusations

The attached are just a couple of examples

http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=207415

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/democracy-kosher-halal-middle/2011/02/08/id/385418


The "they hate us because......" op only serves to stir the pot and kill any real debate

Are you full yet?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Darius11 12]

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I think it is sort of a no win situation. People are going to dislike the U.S. because the U.S. is the biggest country on the block and out of self-interest (like every other country) try to influence events in other places in ways that are favorable to itself. In many cases I don't think the particular policies supported even matter much. It is the fact of outside interference from the biggest kid on the block that is resented.

Agreed to a point, yes were the biggest and strongest so we as any other country will do things to influence things to what we want. That’s natural.

What I find issue with is the people who don’t see the real picture. The ones who do by in to the dumb slogans.

I also think there has got to be a better way, either of none involvement in a countries affair or if we are going to get involved we should not sacrifice the values and principles we hold dear.

Also understanding the past the correct past will help the general knowledge of the populace. If more Americans knew the actual reasons for hate other then simplified incorrect reasons they might viwe our actions differently. By differently I mean more correctly and therefore can adjust for the future.

Osama BinFUckhead
Sadam Hussein
The Shah
The Suaida Royal family and on and on when are we going to realize that our actions and support for individuals such the ones above will always come back and bite us in the ass.

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In that sense it is like a lot of the criticism directed at, e.g. Wal-Mart. Yup, there is a lot that can be criticized (at both Wal-Mart and U.S. foreign policy) but if it was a smaller regional chain doing the same thing then it would go largely unnoticed.

I think that would be a correct analogy if Wal-Mart used child labor, or slaves in other countries to make the goods. Off course as an American company we don’t believe in child labor, or slavery…….for others. Also if the slaves revolted or tried to make a union we did every thing in our power to prohibit it so we can still get our cheep crap.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Darius11 12]

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So if the Egyptian people get what they want. A government for the people by the people, Do you think they will have some hate/dislike for the country who supported and supplied their dictator?

Well, Iran has become such a shining beacon of freedom, prosperity and human rights since the American-supported Shah was overthrown, I'm quite certain that Egypt can follow their fine example.

Damn those Americans for holding back the brown-skinned people!

Iran had an actual democracy a peoples revolution! the CIA overthrew it that’s why the next revolution they took the American embassy and its people as hostages, because they did not want outside forces to steal it again.

You see when you have facts at least you can know why.

That’s the point of this thread. Acknowledging actions and reaction. Most of your lot tend to only look at segments that fit their narrow view.


Off course the revolution the last one was a religious one and a tyrannical one which by the way your GOD Regain had no issue dealing with behind closed doors.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[turtlespeed 212]

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Trust me your far goon to understand logic, the garbage you spew on a daily bases says I am not dealing with a rational person. Your opinion has no value to me as it is so polluted and filled with hate that you are simply a waist of time, a lost cause. My only hope is that you and people like you don’t infect the next generation.

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If we support democracy in Egypt (which we have been doing all along

here is simple logic 101

If you support the person who is oppressing the people who want rights and a democracy your NOT supporting democracy.

Seriosly??? can you at least try

Ahhhh -

So in your mind, "If you are not withus, you are against us."
That makes a lot of sense when you consider the wording of your posts.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Darius11 12]

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Agreed. The twin arguments of "why are you interfering with us?" and "why are you helping them and not giving us as much help?" can both be solved in a pretty straightforward manner.

I'd go for that....with a caveat.

Your country, do what you want, I have no input.
But, screw with me and I'll stomp your ass.

Agreed, and wish we did just that.


What drives me nuts is idiots who forget the passed or actions and try to make it as bigots do about race or religion.

Compare our reactions to the simplest things that don’t go our way. Try to compare how we would react if we were treated in the same manner as we have treated so many countries.

Just think what our reactions would be if a country dared to have its fleet outside Miami? Or what if a country decided Plum island is making chemical weapons and they simply hit it with a cruse missile?

The same crowd who is so quick to hate all things tan would be screaming for Sarah Palin to push the button. The dudes who seem to have the most visceral hate for the “Terrorist” are the ones that remind me the most of them.
The same closed mind, the same denial of facts that might rock there flawed foundations, the only difference is they have no historical reason for their hate. No one has been fucking with there government so all recourses could be stolen, No one has sent weapons to Canada that they use on our schools.....etc

The only country we have recent history with is the same one that GWB bush was holding hands with. HOW FUCKING REATRDED IS THAT.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Darius11 12]

I love how you act like you found something really interesting and then have nothing of value to add other then join the circle jerk with your buddies.

Do you know what Continent we are talking about this time?
Or just copy and paste the same old shit like Mike did ?

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So in your mind, "If you are not withus, you are against us."

You cant understand the words i write!!!!! your trying to read my mind?????????????
Start slow.. This is planet Earth and its not 6000 years old.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[turtlespeed 212]

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So in your mind, "If you are not withus, you are against us."

You cant understand the words i write!!!!! your trying to read my mind?????????????
Start slow.. This is planet Earth and its not 6000 years old.

No - just trying to show you what you are imparting to us about how you think.

6000? Just how old does the muslim religion teach that it is?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[billvon 2,476]

>6000? Just how old does the muslim religion teach that it is?

6000 years would be the Christian religion. Islam doesn't claim any specific age for the earth.

[turtlespeed 212]

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>6000? Just how old does the muslim religion teach that it is?

6000 years would be the Christian religion. Islam doesn't claim any specific age for the earth.

When do they say that he (Allah) created it then?

And where does one find a Jinn?

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The Islamic doctrine of God, expressed in the Qur'an is rigorously monotheistic: God is one and unique; he has no partner or equal. Trinitarianism, the Christian belief that God is three persons in one substance, is vigorously repudiated by Muslims. Muslims believe although Allah's presence is everywhere, he does not indwell anything or anyone. He is the sole Creator, and sustainer of the universe, wherein every creature bears witness to his lordship and unity. He is also just, merciful, majestic, sovereign, and has endowed every creation with a definite and defined nature which allows the myriad of creation to function as a whole. This "nature" of creation, sets limits; and the limitedness of everything is one of the most fixed points in both the cosmology and the theology of the Qur'an.

According to the Qur'an, God created two apparently parallel species, man and jinn. Man was created from clay and jinn was created from fire. The jinn are endowed with reason and responsibility but are more prone to evil than man.

A Short Summary of Islamic Beliefs and Eschatology
Collected by Lambert Dolphin

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Throttlebender 0]

Same shop that ya find talking snakes and burning bushes. I can't guarantee it because I heard it from a guy on a big zoo boat, who heard it from some guy in a whale, who apparently heard it from some other guy that saw the shop on his way to part some sea for a group of people that needed to get to the other side.

Life expands or contracts in proportion to one's courage. ~Anais Nin

[turtlespeed 212]

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Same shop that ya find talking snakes and burning bushes. I can't guarantee it because I heard it from a guy on a big zoo boat, who heard it from some guy in a whale, who apparently heard it from some other guy that saw the shop on his way to part some sea for a group of people that needed to get to the other side.

You might need to change the company you keep.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[billvon 2,476]

>When do they say that he (Allah) created it then?

Over six periods of time; then he rested. (Sounding familiar yet?)

>And where does one find a Jinn?

They live with those talking snakes from Genesis.