Economy still sucks, unemployment is still high, yet the rich just keep getting richer.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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Can somebody explain to me why it's in the interest of the average American to even consider extending the tax cuts to the wealthy?

Go start your own company.
Make a payroll.
It'll give you some insight that you clearly don't have.

If you're not making money hand over fist, just barely making it as you infer, it won't affect you, so your claim makes no sense.

You obviously have never run your own successful business. let me clue you in on a few things.
-You work your ass off.
-You work your ass off as many hours each day as is needed to get the job done. No exceptions.
-You work your ass off seven days a week.
-You work your ass off 52 weeks a year.
-After all of that working your ass off, guess what? The fucking government comes and tries to tax away what is left of your ass.

Give it a shot sometime. Maybe then you won't be so anxious to raise taxes on successful people.

And if you make 250k with your family, these tax increases won't affect you, that's the issue, 250K AGI is really, really, good money, make

And what of the money OVER 250k? Do you think people work less hard for that money? Care to address the questions i posed to you in this thread or are you just going to keep spewing socialist gutter filler?

Thier taxes will start to increase. Until they hit 7 digits the progressive tax scale won't affectthem that much. I guess those great, flag-waving real Americans would want to reinvest in America anyway, right? I mean after all, America made them under her template of profit, so I'm sure givving back, creating their business to be bigger won't be a problem.

If you cry about 250k AGI then boo-fuckking-hoo to you RW greed platform. Nothing like a very well-off person crying over greed. Taxes are at a 40-year low and you're crying about high taxes; the business owners of the 1950's, 60's would have several things to say to you.

If I make 250K in a year it is MY 250k...not yours and sure as hell not the governments. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I don't mind paying my FAIR share as long as it is spent responsibly.
Now...care to address my questions? Or are you going to run because you have no data or proof to back up your claims? Need a reminder? Ok, here it is... take a look at post #42 of this thread.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[mpohl 1]

Nothing that 400 bullets can't fix.
Let's start out with the Koch brothers.

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Can somebody explain to me why it's in the interest of the average American to even consider extending the tax cuts to the wealthy?

The 400 richest people in the US control $1.37 trillion dollars, more than at any other time in history.
http://money.cnn.com/2010/09/22/news/companies/forbes_400/index.htm?hpt=T2

That's just crazy.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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Would you listen to this guy. Wants to extend tax cuts to the wealthiest 1% of the country while the rest of it struggles to make ends meet and deficits skyrocket.

Then cut spending so damn much. It's a pretty simple concept.

Gimme a good reason why the wealthiest 1% shouldn't get down on their knees and be happy to pay a bit more taxes to a country that allows them to be as rich as they are?

Give me a reason taxes should be raised on that 1% to cover spending that shouldn't exist to begin with. Give me one good reason why anyone should pay a higher percentage of their income to the government than other people do.

The reason most of these people are wealthy beyond anyone's wildest imagination is because they live right here in the good ol' USA and have benefitted greatly from its security and infrastructure.

People in other countries aren't rich? Strange, I could have sworn there were lots of rich people in other countries.

Ask just about any small businessman that immigrated here from an impoverished country which is better; paying a bit more in taxes or living in a hell hole.

Not many small businesses in that 1%. But even so, why should they pay more than Joe Plumber?

We live in a great country filled with opportunities for anyone. There simply is no upper limit on what you can achieve here, but all of that comes at a price and that price is called taxes. It's at least unpatriotic and damn near treasonous to shirk the responsibility of paying them.

Yes, we do! And you too can aspire to be rich if you want! Maybe, instead of taxing the rich more we should make the less wealthy work harder to increase their income and, as a result, increase tax revenue. I like that idea better.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[turtlespeed 212]

Only for you sweetheart.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Lucky... 0]

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Can somebody explain to me why it's in the interest of the average American to even consider extending the tax cuts to the wealthy?

Go start your own company.
Make a payroll.
It'll give you some insight that you clearly don't have.

If you're not making money hand over fist, just barely making it as you infer, it won't affect you, so your claim makes no sense.

You obviously have never run your own successful business. let me clue you in on a few things.
-You work your ass off.
-You work your ass off as many hours each day as is needed to get the job done. No exceptions.
-You work your ass off seven days a week.
-You work your ass off 52 weeks a year.
-After all of that working your ass off, guess what? The fucking government comes and tries to tax away what is left of your ass.

Give it a shot sometime. Maybe then you won't be so anxious to raise taxes on successful people.

And if you make 250k with your family, these tax increases won't affect you, that's the issue, 250K AGI is really, really, good money, make

And what of the money OVER 250k? Do you think people work less hard for that money? Care to address the questions i posed to you in this thread or are you just going to keep spewing socialist gutter filler?

Thier taxes will start to increase. Until they hit 7 digits the progressive tax scale won't affectthem that much. I guess those great, flag-waving real Americans would want to reinvest in America anyway, right? I mean after all, America made them under her template of profit, so I'm sure givving back, creating their business to be bigger won't be a problem.

If you cry about 250k AGI then boo-fuckking-hoo to you RW greed platform. Nothing like a very well-off person crying over greed. Taxes are at a 40-year low and you're crying about high taxes; the business owners of the 1950's, 60's would have several things to say to you.

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If I make 250K in a year it is MY 250k...not yours and sure as hell not the governments.

There you're wrong; the gov can take it as they see fit, see the 16th. Don't like it, move to Montana and be a Freeman. As for me getting it, don't pretend that there is a connecction between your tax bill and anything I get, esp since I haven't even receievd unemp in like 10 years, let alone any other form of welfare.

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I've said it before and I'll say it again, I don't mind paying my FAIR share as long as it is spent responsibly.

Then quit electing Republicans if you feel that way. And oh, the gov doesn't give 2 rat's asses if you feel it is spent irresponsibly; FYI.

As for fair, you feel fair is like 2%, that is just unrealistic, something for which you will need to consult a therapist.

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Now...care to address my questions? Or are you going to run because you have no data or proof to back up your claims? Need a reminder? Ok, here it is... take a look at post #42 of this thread.

I will see if I can find data, but I don't know that direct data exists for the issue of when taxes are higher, more investment is made, lower taxes = more profit taking. We know there is more gropwth, the market increases, deficit falls, etc under liberal policies, but I don;t know that the data for which you seek, exists. I will look.

[Lucky... 0]

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Would you listen to this guy. Wants to extend tax cuts to the wealthiest 1% of the country while the rest of it struggles to make ends meet and deficits skyrocket.

Then cut spending so damn much. It's a pretty simple concept.

Gimme a good reason why the wealthiest 1% shouldn't get down on their knees and be happy to pay a bit more taxes to a country that allows them to be as rich as they are?

Give me a reason taxes should be raised on that 1% to cover spending that shouldn't exist to begin with. Give me one good reason why anyone should pay a higher percentage of their income to the government than other people do.

The reason most of these people are wealthy beyond anyone's wildest imagination is because they live right here in the good ol' USA and have benefitted greatly from its security and infrastructure.

People in other countries aren't rich? Strange, I could have sworn there were lots of rich people in other countries.

Ask just about any small businessman that immigrated here from an impoverished country which is better; paying a bit more in taxes or living in a hell hole.

Not many small businesses in that 1%. But even so, why should they pay more than Joe Plumber?

We live in a great country filled with opportunities for anyone. There simply is no upper limit on what you can achieve here, but all of that comes at a price and that price is called taxes. It's at least unpatriotic and damn near treasonous to shirk the responsibility of paying them.

Yes, we do! And you too can aspire to be rich if you want! Maybe, instead of taxing the rich more we should make the less wealthy work harder to increase their income and, as a result, increase tax revenue. I like that idea better.

Less wealthy = poor, so you want to work the fuck out of the poor; what a new concept from the right.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

Now your true colors are shining through.
So you think your, and my, income belongs to the government just because they say it does? Nice to know you are so willing to give up so readily what you have worked for.
Ten years since you collected unemployment compensation? I never have.
Elected republicans? Not me, bud. Must have been you.
Can't find data? Of course not. You are just guessing and theorizing.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Lucky... 0]

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Now your true colors are shining through.
So you think your, and my, income belongs to the government just because they say it does?

And so are yours; wave teh onstitution when it seems fun, denouce it when it doesn't quite work. The 16th isn't because I think it does, it's because "they" think it does. If you don't like it or any provision of the US Const; tough shit, I don't see it changing any time soon.

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Nice to know you are so willing to give up so readily what you have worked for.

And that is why I want to see it redirected to things I want, like HC for all. Working, paying for things and getting them is great, giving it away to get nothing is not; your Republinazis want to give it to the rich, my party wants to better the general populous.

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Ten years since you collected unemployment compensation? I never have.

Congratulations, your ribbon is on the way. Any welfare you've ever received wouldn't be dosclosed here, but let's say you became disabled, you would be all over your benefits.

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Elected republicans? Not me, bud. Must have been you.

Oh, you vote for the ultra-sociopaths? The Libertarians. Yea, those are the most fun to watch waffle all over the place when they call for welfare as they need it after denoucing it ferocioucly.

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Can't find data? Of course not. You are just guessing and theorizing.

I don't know of data that shows if business spends more under high taxes in order to shield it; who would track it? All you have to do is ask for something impossible and then claim victory when the impossible can't be delivered.

Explain how more growth and less debt is encountered under higher taxes, that we know. Let us hear your explanation if you say my oh so obvious one is incorrect.

[Lucky... 0]

Here's a read. It's some guys blog page, so don't consider teh source, just the logic and refute it:


Let’s say my business has a gross revenue of $200,000. Labor costs are $120,000, equipment costs were $20,000, and rent and utilities and all other expenses were $20,000. Those business expenses add up to $160,000. Since my gross revenue was $200,000, my actual net profit would be $40,000. If my business was taxed at 25%, my tax bill would be $10,000. If it was taxed at a 75% rate, my tax bill would be $30,000. If I waited until after I paid my taxes to buy equipment, I would have left my net profit at the full $40,000, all of it taxable.

Here’s why high taxes can actually be an incentive for a business owner to buy equipment at the end of the year…or give out employee bonuses at the end of the year. Yes, if you receive a bonus around Christmas time, that bonus is fully deductible as a business expense. Now you know why it comes around the end of the year. And here you thought your boss was actually giving you a Christmas bonus. Nope, he’s reducing the net profit of his business and your bonus helps him avoid paying more taxes. As a business owner, the thought process sounds something like this:

"Hmmm, if my net profit is $40,000, I’ll owe $10,000 in taxes this year. Why should I pay that much? Why should the Federal government get my business’ hard earned money? I’d rather give it away than pay them that much!"

And so evolves the "Christmas" bonus in the mind of the business owner. Better that my employees get a bonus than the Fed gets one dime more than they deserve, which is almost nothing. Besides, maybe that bonus will encourage my employees to work more efficiently; at least they won’t waste that money like the Federal government would. And, I can pay myself a nice bonus, too…fully deductible.

So let’s say the bonuses add up to $20,000. My net profit is now reduced to $20,000, and if I paid at a 25% rate, I would still owe $5,000 in taxes. Hmm, how can I cut that amount even lower? I know! I’ll buy equipment that I was putting off until next year! Anything to reduce my net profit as close to zero as possible so that my tax bill is as close to zero as possible, too.

Trickle Down Economics puts the cart before the horse. In other words, it paints a portrait of a business owner being a moron and paying taxes before he pays bonuses or buys capital equipment. Not smart, especially when it leaves you paying taxes on a much higher net profit. I don’t personally know of a single business owner or executive who runs his business that way. Not one.

Remember when I said that higher tax rates would create an even greater incentive for a business to reinvest in itself rather than throw their net profit down the toilet by paying extra taxes to the Fed? Well, think about it. If my tax rate was 75%, that would mean a $40,000 profit would see $30,000 of my company’s money being paid to the IRS. If you think I’m stingy at 25%, wait until you see how stingy I am toward the IRS if taxes are at 75%.

Where does all that money go? If I give it to my employees as bonuses, conveniently around Christmas so I look like a big softy; where does that money end up? Does some of it maybe end up at the mall? And maybe some of it is saved, and some of it is invested. If I didn’t give those "Christmas" bonuses, and instead paid the actual taxes on my gross profit, where would that money end up? I think we all know that it would end up in the toilet.

Where does the money I spend on Capital equipment right before the end of the year go? The same place my Conservative friend said it would end up if only the Feds would cut his business taxes so he had more money to buy equipment. The cart before the horse.

If you are a business owner who waits to buy equipment or give out bonuses until after you’ve paid taxes, you are flushing money down the toilet. Executives and business owners do not operate that way, unless they are morons.

In the end, the Federal Government does not dictate to me how much of that gross profit they are going to get. I control that, because I control how much net profit I actually have. I control it through wages, expenses, and equipment purchases. If I have to buy a new computer every year just to make sure that the $2000 I spend on it does not end up in the hands of the IRS, then that’s what I do. And I do do that.

Higher taxes are an even greater incentive for me to reinvest in my business than low taxes. Like I said before, I do not know of a single business owner or executive who doesn’t feel the same way. Conservative politics and Trickle Down anecdotes aside, the numbers prove that high taxes are a greater incentive for businesses to reinvest in themselves than low taxes. And when we reinvest in our own businesses, we are helping to create the demand that Conservatives say comes from Trickle Down economics. Cut corporate taxes, they say. But it doesn’t work. Low taxes create very little incentive for reinvestment. Rather, they create incentive for a business to hoard cash. Cash doesn’t do anyone any good unless it is spent.

This is not rocket science, but proponents of Trickle Down economics prefer anecdotes to facts. They prefer to tell you all about how businesses would reinvest money into their own business if only we cut their taxes, and they’d do it because they’d have more money to spend. But reality shows that it just doesn’t work that way. I spend my money before the Fed gets it, not after. I know exactly how much money I have to spend, and I plan that with my accountant. I reduce the actual taxes I pay by being proactive; by reinvesting in my business RATHER THAN PAYING THAT MONEY TO THE IRS.



http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/68123

[rushmc 18]

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Can somebody explain to me why it's in the interest of the average American to even consider extending the tax cuts to the wealthy?

Go start your own company.
Make a payroll.
It'll give you some insight that you clearly don't have.

If you're not making money hand over fist, just barely making it as you infer, it won't affect you, so your claim makes no sense.

More appropriate:

Ya probably more appropriate

But

I have got to laugh at some of that crap or I will cry

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

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Can somebody explain to me why it's in the interest of the average American to even consider extending the tax cuts to the wealthy?

Go start your own company.
Make a payroll.
It'll give you some insight that you clearly don't have.

If you're not making money hand over fist, just barely making it as you infer, it won't affect you, so your claim makes no sense.

More appropriate:

Hey frick and frack, do you guys ever see how out of any real argument you look to everyone but yourselves? Guys like Mike, lawrocket, etc actually have arguments, you guys just emoticons.

firck here dude

Let me clue you in

YOU HAVE NO FUCKING ARGUMENT DUDE!!!!!!!!

Your post here clearly proves that

I started reply's three times and said to my self to hell with it

You dont get it

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Lucky... 0]

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Can somebody explain to me why it's in the interest of the average American to even consider extending the tax cuts to the wealthy?

Go start your own company.
Make a payroll.
It'll give you some insight that you clearly don't have.

If you're not making money hand over fist, just barely making it as you infer, it won't affect you, so your claim makes no sense.

More appropriate:

Hey frick and frack, do you guys ever see how out of any real argument you look to everyone but yourselves? Guys like Mike, lawrocket, etc actually have arguments, you guys just emoticons.

firck here dude

Let me clue you in

YOU HAVE NO FUCKING ARGUMENT DUDE!!!!!!!!

Your post here clearly proves that

I started reply's three times and said to my self to hell with it

You dont get it

And you're still unable to make your point; failed 3 times.

Explain how growth is higher, debt accrual lower under high taxes. Oh, you can't. Maybe start another 3 or 5 times then scrap it; don't blame me for your inability to express your ideas.

[rushmc 18]

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If you're not making money hand over fist, just barely making it as you infer, it won't affect you, so your claim makes no sense.

YOUR statement makes no sense and shows how little understand about how the economy works

Just like you and others do not understand the corps do not pay taxes.

Your talking points just make no sense

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[TheBachelor 5]

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And if you make 250k with your family, these tax increases won't affect you, that's the issue, 250K AGI is really, really, good money, make < and the expired tax increase won't affect you; care to address the issue or just more RW bravado?

I'm single, have my own business, and make over 250K. These tax increases aren't going to affect me. They are going to hurt people who make less than I do. Here's why:

Until now, I've paid more thanmy share of taxes (over 40 percent of my AGI, 100K+/year), but with these upcoming increases, I've gone to my CPA, and asked how I can shield myself from the increases. He has a perfectly legal method that I'm going to use. The kicker: I can't hire anyone else. So if I have the need for additional staff, I won't hire -- it would cost me too much.

So there you go: I'll actually be saving more money (and paying less tax) next year, but I won't be hiring.

There are battered women? I've been eating 'em plain all of these years...

[wayneflorida 0]

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Here's a read. It's some guys blog page, so don't consider teh source, just the logic and refute it:


Let’s say my business has a gross revenue of $200,000. Labor costs are $120,000, equipment costs were $20,000, and rent and utilities and all other expenses were $20,000. Those business expenses add up to $160,000. Since my gross r-------------------------------------------------------
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accountant. I reduce the actual taxes I pay by being proactive; by reinvesting in my business RATHER THAN PAYING THAT MONEY TO THE IRS.


general thoughts.

So I spend 40,000 profit to buy 40,000 equipment when my factory is running at 65% and don't expect a need to increase production for several years and my equipment is modern. I don't get a return on that 40,000 equipment sitting around. I'd rather pay 30,000 in taxes and invest in govenment bonds the 10,000 I have left, or give out dividends.

Bonuses could be helpful for the buisness but only to a certain extent. Needs to be balanced with paying out dividends and capital investment.
Any way I will have to close down in three years because of china imports. I'll pay the 75% taxes and keep the $10,000 for myself because I won't have a job in three years. I'm a greedy bastard because I didn't give my employees the money.

If the above business is a sole propiretorship, partnership the owner will have to pay 15.3% of that 40,000 in fica and med taxes. In addition to whatever he may have paid himself in salary.

Might be better to reduce product prices to zero profit for the purpose of not paying taxes. Could increase market share but only if other companies didn't decrease their prices. fucking economy.

I spend 40,000 on equipment but I can only deduct 8,000 depreciation this year (5 yr straight line). I now have 32,000 profit, and I owe 24,000 taxes. OH Shit, I have no money in the bank to pay my taxes.

So what if a company hoards cash. Cash is an asset.
Stock value goes up. I think I'll sell $100,000 worth and buy a boat. Up goes the economy. How big a boat depends on how much tax I have to pay on my stock gain. High tax = canoe. Low tax = bigger than a canoe.

A buisness needs profit to stay in buisness. Might survive for a while without profit but not for long.

Economics is pretty simple, supply and demand, return on investment, etc.
Add government policy and taxes, and it becomes more complicated than rocket science.



http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/68123

[diablopilot 2]

Maybe some of them worked hard, risked loss, and earned it? I dunno, just sayin'.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[quade 3]

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Maybe some of them worked hard, risked loss, and earned it? I dunno, just sayin'.

How do I put this . . .

Nobody is paid for how HARD they work. In fact, I think you'll find that the people in our society that work the hardest, tend to be paid the least.

People are paid, more or less, according to how much power they have to negotiate with whoever is purchasing their services. HARD doesn't enter into the equation. We're all just commodities being bought and sold.

You think Jolie works harder than Aniston? No. People WANT Jolie more and are just willing to pay more. Same goes for every sweetheart deal a multi-million dollar CEO gets from a Broad of Directors. Is the guy working harder? No. He's maybe perceived as being more valuable because his track record says he can negotiate better deals, but that's not working harder. In fact, he actually may be working less hard because negotiating deals comes naturally to him.

Ok, that's people . . . employees . . . so what about businesses and "small business" owners?

Exact same situation. Businesses rise and fall not because one company is working harder than the other, but because they're putting out a product somebody wants to buy at a price people want to buy it. You can be the hardest working company on the planet, but if nobody wants your product, you fail.

Likewise, risk doesn't enter into it. Unless you're a professional gambler. Most long term successful companies don't take huge risks. They take small and very calculated ones.

Ya wanna know want seems to be the keys; being intelligent and being able to negotiate the best deal or at least hire people that can do it on their behalf. THAT is how people get rich. THAT is what the Republican party does.

BTW, I'm not actually against that. What I'm against is how that 1% has another 49% bamboozled into thinking the Republicans are somehow working FOR them. But, like I said, it's what they do.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Lucky... 0]

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If you're not making money hand over fist, just barely making it as you infer, it won't affect you, so your claim makes no sense.

YOUR statement makes no sense and shows how little understand about how the economy works

Just like you and others do not understand the corps do not pay taxes.

Your talking points just make no sense

So when the top marginal bracket is raised, esp to > 50%, 70% then what do corporations do with profits?

- Pay taxes at that rate

- Spend on items to writeoff their profit to avoid taxes

- OR????


We'll start with 1 element at a time for you.

[wmw999 2,149]

There's a certain amount of random luck that enters into the equation, too. Right place/right time kind of stuff.

If anyone doubts that, look up the Pet Rock and Tickle Me Elmo.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[quade 3]

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There's a certain amount of random luck that enters into the equation, too. Right place/right time kind of stuff.

Absolutely. Just the fact we were randomly born in the US means we're hugely more fortunate than say, people born in Bangladesh.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Lucky... 0]

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And if you make 250k with your family, these tax increases won't affect you, that's the issue, 250K AGI is really, really, good money, make < and the expired tax increase won't affect you; care to address the issue or just more RW bravado?

I'm single, have my own business, and make over 250K. These tax increases aren't going to affect me. They are going to hurt people who make less than I do. Here's why:

Until now, I've paid more thanmy share of taxes (over 40 percent of my AGI, 100K+/year), but with these upcoming increases, I've gone to my CPA, and asked how I can shield myself from the increases. He has a perfectly legal method that I'm going to use. The kicker: I can't hire anyone else. So if I have the need for additional staff, I won't hire -- it would cost me too much.

So there you go: I'll actually be saving more money (and paying less tax) next year, but I won't be hiring.

Love your explanation; complete with a secret that you won't disclose. The million dollar question: WHAT DID YOU CPA TELL YOU TO SHIELD YOUR INCOME?

And for your explanation as to not hire more people; DUH, BECAUSE THEN YOU WOULD MAKE MORE MONEY AND YOU WOULD PAY EVEN MORE TAXES. Hey, here's a clue: FUCKING SPEND MONEY ON COMPANY ASSETS THAT WILL DO 3 THINGS:

- write down your AGI

- increase the value of your businesss

- make your business more profitable

So stay hiden behind the veil of secrecy to keep your anti-tax rant seemingly viable, or tell us the general type of your business you're in and what the CPA told you to do in addition to not hiring more.

Also, if you don't hire more, your competition will, as in free enmterprise, demand-supply you don't dictate need, the consumer does, so the people you don't hire using your secret reason will be picked up by your competition and they will be smart/ingenious enough to grow their business and hire.

[Lucky... 0]

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Here's a read. It's some guys blog page, so don't consider teh source, just the logic and refute it:


Let’s say my business has a gross revenue of $200,000. Labor costs are $120,000, equipment costs were $20,000, and rent and utilities and all other expenses were $20,000. Those business expenses add up to $160,000. Since my gross r-------------------------------------------------------
-
-
-
accountant. I reduce the actual taxes I pay by being proactive; by reinvesting in my business RATHER THAN PAYING THAT MONEY TO THE IRS.

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general thoughts.

So I spend 40,000 profit to buy 40,000 equipment when my factory is running at 65% and don't expect a need to increase production for several years and my equipment is modern. I don't get a return on that 40,000 equipment sitting around. I'd rather pay 30,000 in taxes and invest in govenment bonds the 10,000 I have left, or give out dividends.

Bonuses could be helpful for the buisness but only to a certain extent. Needs to be balanced with paying out dividends and capital investment.
Any way I will have to close down in three years because of china imports. I'll pay the 75% taxes and keep the $10,000 for myself because I won't have a job in three years. I'm a greedy bastard because I didn't give my employees the money.

If the above business is a sole propiretorship, partnership the owner will have to pay 15.3% of that 40,000 in fica and med taxes. In addition to whatever he may have paid himself in salary.

Might be better to reduce product prices to zero profit for the purpose of not paying taxes. Could increase market share but only if other companies didn't decrease their prices. fucking economy.

I spend 40,000 on equipment but I can only deduct 8,000 depreciation this year (5 yr straight line). I now have 32,000 profit, and I owe 24,000 taxes. OH Shit, I have no money in the bank to pay my taxes.

So what if a company hoards cash. Cash is an asset.
Stock value goes up. I think I'll sell $100,000 worth and buy a boat. Up goes the economy. How big a boat depends on how much tax I have to pay on my stock gain. High tax = canoe. Low tax = bigger than a canoe.

A buisness needs profit to stay in buisness. Might survive for a while without profit but not for long.

Economics is pretty simple, supply and demand, return on investment, etc.
Add government policy and taxes, and it becomes more complicated than rocket science.

http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/68123

A lot depends upon what type of corp you have, obviously LLC you could writeoff direct cost vs depreciation. Benefits and downsides. Tell me this, how much of your profit is writeoffable in regard to employees? Oh, 100%, that's right. So maybe high taxes encourage hiring more people directly, paying them more in bonuses at Christmas during good years and that sore of direct impact vs buying more equipment and just being able to writeoff depreciation, but 100% direct costs.

Also, many small businesses are LLC and whatever type (S, C), so they can writeoff 100% costs on business rather than depreciation, so your model doesn't apply to those.

[rushmc 18]

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If you're not making money hand over fist, just barely making it as you infer, it won't affect you, so your claim makes no sense.

YOUR statement makes no sense and shows how little understand about how the economy works

Just like you and others do not understand the corps do not pay taxes.

Your talking points just make no sense

So when the top marginal bracket is raised, esp to > 50%, 70% then what do corporations do with profits?

- Pay taxes at that rate

- Spend on items to writeoff their profit to avoid taxes

- OR????


We'll start with 1 element at a time for you.

Corps do NOT pay taxes. Stock holders do.

To corps taxes is just another production or business cost. It is passed on to the consumers of their products what ever that may be. In the end you and I pay those taxes as a cost of the product or service we buy from them. Period

So, it does two things. First, it makes it more costly to you and me and second, makes their product less competitive in the world markets (if they do business there) More cost means less sales, less sales mean less employees and the only winner is?

NO ONE (except for the bums living off the gov teat)

So now we know this One Element is unknown to the all most knowing (self proclaimed) here


Still sick?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[turtlespeed 212]

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And you're still unable to make your point; failed 3 times.

Just because you refuse to understand it does not mean he failed in his ability to articulate it to the rest of the forum.

Is it loneley in denial land?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Lucky... 0]

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If you're not making money hand over fist, just barely making it as you infer, it won't affect you, so your claim makes no sense.

YOUR statement makes no sense and shows how little understand about how the economy works

Just like you and others do not understand the corps do not pay taxes.

Your talking points just make no sense

So when the top marginal bracket is raised, esp to > 50%, 70% then what do corporations do with profits?

- Pay taxes at that rate

- Spend on items to writeoff their profit to avoid taxes

- OR????


We'll start with 1 element at a time for you.

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Corps do NOT pay taxes. Stock holders do.

Sort of, stock holders own their share of the corporation, but the directors decide how to manage/mismanage that money. The way stocks are bought and sold many times holders just owna stock for hours or days rather than years/deacades, so thecorporations is the BOD.

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To corps taxes is just another production or business cost. It is passed on to the consumers of their products what ever that may be.

Again, sort of. If costs go too high, they still must compete with their competition. And taxing/redistributing ensures consumners will have the money to buy things; circulation of money, natural or artificial is paramount to a healthy economy, corporations and the rich tend to pool it w/o the gov ensuring they move it.

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In the end you and I pay those taxes as a cost of the product or service we buy from them.

They still have to compete and the higher taxes are, the more growth seems to occur, that has repeated over and over since FDR; show where it hasn't.

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Period

Nothing is, period. That shows a closed mind.

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So, it does two things. First, it makes it more costly to you and me and second, makes their product less competitive in the world markets (if they do business there) More cost means less sales, less sales mean less employees and the only winner is?

If your fanatasy is true, explian how we have loser growth in periods of lower taxes, higher debt accrual, etc. You could cite the Reagan years where there was growth, but there was such amazing deficit spending at a time not in war that that explains the growth. The trick is to spend less and increase growth and that was done under Clinton as he raised taxes and cut spending, esp military spending.

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NO ONE (except for the bums living off the gov teat)

Hey, hey, hey, leave military contractors out of this.

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So now we know this One Element is unknown to the all most knowing (self proclaimed) here

What one element?

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Still sick?

I'm reading your post, aren't I?

And you still didn't directly answer my question, I don't expect you will.

So when the top marginal bracket is raised, esp to > 50%, 70% then what do corporations do with profits?

- Pay taxes at that rate

- Spend on items to writeoff their profit to avoid taxes

- OR????