skipbelt 0 #26 September 7, 2010 QuoteEarth to lucky. No one gives any credence to your nonsense. You've been smacked down in threads where you suggested this nonsense. For the sake of bandwidth, just write "I'm a socialist and I hate successful people and wan the economy taxed to a standstill." We'll all know what you mean without the wasted space.zzziiiing ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #27 September 7, 2010 QuoteI have never belonged to a union . . . I see. So even though you've just admitted you've never belonged to any union, you feel qualified to comment on all of them. I'm curious if there are any movies or television you've ever watched and liked? If there are any TV or radio personalities you listen to on a regular basis? I'm curious about your views about the quality of Fred Thompson or Ronald Reagan? Are they mediocre at best?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #28 September 7, 2010 QuoteQuoteI have never belonged to a union . . . I see. So even though you've just admitted you've never belonged to any union, you feel qualified to comment on all of them. I'm curious if there are any movies or television you've ever watched and liked? If there are any TV or radio personalities you listen to on a regular basis? And just because you've belong in one, you feel qualified to comment on all of them.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #29 September 7, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteI have never belonged to a union . . . I see. So even though you've just admitted you've never belonged to any union, you feel qualified to comment on all of them. I'm curious if there are any movies or television you've ever watched and liked? If there are any TV or radio personalities you listen to on a regular basis? And just because you've belong in one, you feel qualified to comment on all of them. I didn't say they all are. You can do a forum search. Go ahead. I'll wait. In fact, I specifically asked if he'd considered that they AREN'T all alike.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #30 September 7, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI have never belonged to a union . . . I see. So even though you've just admitted you've never belonged to any union, you feel qualified to comment on all of them. I'm curious if there are any movies or television you've ever watched and liked? If there are any TV or radio personalities you listen to on a regular basis? And just because you've belong in one, you feel qualified to comment on all of them. I didn't say they all are. You can do a forum search. Go ahead. I'll wait. He was as non-specific in his comment as you have been throughout the thread, until trying to separate out the entertainment unions immediately above. Is there any SPECIFIC benefit to the discussion in having him say 'oh, the entertainment unions are ok' other than a sop to your professional pride?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #31 September 7, 2010 QuoteUnions promote mediocre behavior at best!!! Such a narrow minded view. Have you ever considered that not all unions are alike? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #32 September 7, 2010 QuoteQuoteUnions promote mediocre behavior at best!!! Such a narrow minded view. Have you ever considered that not all unions are alike? Not all restaurants are the same - they don't all serve meat, but they all serve food and drink. So, basically, yes they are all the same at their core.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,136 #33 September 7, 2010 QuoteThe problem is unions are still acting like they face those problems today, and using the same old steps to fightUnfortunately, there is enough correlation between %union membership and number of industrial accidents per population to justify the thought that unions help with job safety (I ran population numbers from wikipedia, job safety numbers and union affiliation numbers from the bureau of labor statistics against each other). Combined they're by no means a strong predictor, and correlation does not mean causality. But we still have pretty noticeable industrial safety violations (e.g. 1992 Hamlet chicken plant fire). It's a shame, because as far as work ethics go, some of the unions seem to make it easy for slackers to keep working. Others don't. But just trusting employers to do the right thing probably isn't a great long-term proposal. Just like trusting financial markets not to try to make as much money as possible, even if it's at the expense of others. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #34 September 7, 2010 QuoteHe was as non-specific in his comment as you have been throughout the thread, until trying to separate out the entertainment unions immediately above. Nope. He was absolute in his statement. I even gave him a chance to clarify. He again picked an absolutist point of view. Pretty much whenever a person speaks in absolutes, they're leaving themselves open to be proven wrong. The real world is far less black and white than some people assume it is.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #35 September 7, 2010 Quote I'm curious if there are any movies or television you've ever watched and liked? Your pals in Crappywood have been creating nothing but garbage for the last 10-20 years. TV these days is pure junk and your movies are no different. But you know the saying "Don't forget to check your brain at the door when you head to the movies". So are you planning on doing us any more favors soon? You know like going out on strike? Please do ... the less crap coming out of the CA entertainment world the better. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #36 September 8, 2010 QuoteQuoteHe was as non-specific in his comment as you have been throughout the thread, until trying to separate out the entertainment unions immediately above. Nope. He was absolute in his statement. I even gave him a chance to clarify. He again picked an absolutist point of view. Really? By all means, then, please show where he explicitly stated "all unions" rather than a generic reference. QuotePretty much whenever a person speaks in absolutes, they're leaving themselves open to be proven wrong. The real world is far less black and white than some people assume it is. Indeed.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
loumeinhart 0 #37 September 8, 2010 triangle shirtwaist 1911 With current markets and the complexity of global business, I think unions today are useless and have a negative effect on production. But the the Shirtwaist Fire of 1911 is an example of the Unions (govt) role pre WW2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #38 September 8, 2010 Quote triangle shirtwaist 1911 With current markets and the complexity of global business, I think unions today are useless and have a negative effect on production. But the the Shirtwaist Fire of 1911 is an example of the Unions (govt) role pre WW2 Which is approximately, but not exactly, where I started this thread.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skipbelt 0 #39 September 8, 2010 QuoteQuote triangle shirtwaist 1911 With current markets and the complexity of global business, I think unions today are useless and have a negative effect on production. But the the Shirtwaist Fire of 1911 is an example of the Unions (govt) role pre WW2Which is approximately, but not exactly, where I started this thread. this latest development makes this thread a powerful contender for a seinfeld episode ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #40 September 8, 2010 Junior Mints. Moops. Unionized Baseball! Wow, headlines really are Seinfeld-ish lately...witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skipbelt 0 #41 September 8, 2010 QuoteJunior Mints. Moops. Unionized Baseball!Wow, headlines really are Seinfeld-ish lately...good riddance - green day , seinfeld final episode themeAnother turning pointA fork stuck in the roadTime grabs you by the wristDirects you where to goSo make the best of this testAnd don't ask whyIt's not a questionBut a lesson learned in timeIt's something unpredictableBut in the end it's rightI hope you had the time of your lifeSo take the photographsAnd still frames in your mindHang it on a shelfIn good health and good timeTattoos of memoriesAnd dead skin on trialFor what it's worthIt was worth all the whileIt's something unpredictableBut in the end it's rightI hope you had the time of your lifeIt's something unpredictableBut in the end it's rightI hope you had the time of your lifeIt's something unpredictableBut in the end it's rightI hope you had the time of your life !!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RPC1117 0 #42 September 8, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuotePeople LOVE to blame the unions, but I don't see how that's a supportable position Unsurprising. Calling GM and Chrysler....GM and Chrysler to a red courtesy phone, please... You're not looking at the entire picture. In particular promoting piece of shit cars. Quite obviously, neither are you. GM, $73.26/hour total labor cost in 2006. Ford, $70.51/hour. (From Business Week, ca. 2007) From CNN(ca. 2007) QuoteAs analyzed by Harbour-Felax, labor costs the Detroit Three substantially more per vehicle than it does the Japanese. Health care is the biggest chunk. GM (Charts), for instance spends $1,635 per vehicle on health care for active and retired workers in the U.S. Toyota (Charts) pays nothing for retired workers - it has very few - and only $215 for active ones. Other labor costs add to the bill. Contract issues like work rules, line relief and holiday pay amount to $630 per vehicle - costs that the Japanese don't have. And paying UAW members for not working when plants are shut costs another $350 per vehicle. WOW, $73 to $70; my you make a great semantic argument. So this is why Ford didn't need the bailout and GM did? And as for your comparison to Japanese makers costs, I wonder what kind of medical program they have over there? Great arguments. On a small scale, $3.00 isn't much....but if you do some math you will see it has a pretty large impact. # of Employees (source is Wiki): GM: 244,500 Ford: 176,000 Variance of 68,500 So, lets just assume that the avg worker works roughly 1,920 hours per year (two weeks vacation + 10 holidays removed from hours) $3 * 1920 * 68,000 = $391.68M Now, since these factors were from 2006...lets extrapolate that for 4 years (for arguements sake, we won't adjust for inflation) $391.68M * 4yrs = $1.56B That $3 is looking pretty significant now isn't it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #43 September 8, 2010 It wasn't a comparison between GM/Ford, but showing that both had high labor costs - as well as Daimler-Chrysler, which I added in a reply.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skipbelt 0 #44 September 8, 2010 i hope you had the time of your life ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
