I'm becoming an atheist

[SkyDekker 1,122]

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So I guess we should just give up and say "God" did it? Is that what you are trying to say?

No

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Your argument is very weak

The argument you just invented for me is indeed very weak. It also wasn't my argument as put forward in my original post and repeated in posts therafter.

[skydiverkeith 1]

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if you've never beaten your wife there is no answer to the question "When did you stop beating your wife".

Sure there is: when she makes me a goddam sammich.
I know, take it to Bonfire.

LMFAO! Best response ever!

Blue skies,
Keith Medlock

[SkyDekker 1,122]

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It certainly more logical than the silly assumption that that which is not yet scientifically proven by Earth humans in 2010 might never be scientifically proven, and thus it might have a supernatural origin or aspect.

Not more logical. It shows a narrower focus. It is more logical (and honest) to replace "in all likelihood can" with "might". It keeps an open mind.

[beowulf 1]

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So I guess we should just give up and say "God" did it? Is that what you are trying to say?

No

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Your argument is very weak

The argument you just invented for me is indeed very weak. It also wasn't my argument as put forward in my original post and repeated in posts therafter.

I didn't invent that argument. It's what I read in you writings. If that isn't what you meant then explain what you did mean.

I don't understand why anyone would resort to a supernatural explaination for anything. There is no evidence of anything supernatural.
It is better to say "I don't know" then to say some mythical god did it.

[stevebabin 0]

There is exactly *zero* evidence pointing to anything supernatural. The religous posters have nothing substantial to offer in your search for the truth.
If what they claim was the truth, it wouldn't require faith as a starting point. It would stand up to skeptical inquiry by itself without faith and it doesn't.

For those silly enough to argue that "well you can't prove that god doesn't exist", google "Russel's Teapot"

"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

[SkyDekker 1,122]

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If that isn't what you meant then explain what you did mean.

One of the posters claimed she had left her faith because at age 8 she felt her mind was tuned to logic and science.

I stated that I find that silly, logic and science do not preclude the existence of a supernatural being. It is just as silly as not believing in logic and science because your mind is tuned to (insert any religion).

[Coreece 190]

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if you really think the question is a good one, why don't you show me how to answer it

I did...with scripture.

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What would you consider the reason for your wilfull delusion...if in fact you were deluded?

Neurosis of course.

zipty zipty shama ding dong!


...but if I was a neurotic as you suggested earlier, why would I be suffering from delusions?

btw...I had to undergo a psych evalutation for court: mentally stable - Rather sanguine, yet somewhat impulsive.

What is your defense for having a darkened heart?

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[beowulf 1]

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If that isn't what you meant then explain what you did mean.

One of the posters claimed she had left her faith because at age 8 she felt her mind was tuned to logic and science.

I stated that I find that silly, logic and science do not preclude the existence of a supernatural being. It is just as silly as not believing in logic and science because your mind is tuned to (insert any religion).

Logically there is no evidence to support the existence of anything supernatural.
So using science and pure logic there is no reason to think there is any such thing as god. Not sure what you think is silly about that.

The scientific burden is not to prove something doesn't exist, but to prove that it does exist.

[beowulf 1]

I think your argument is because we don't know everything means there could be a supernatural being.

Well that is a very very weak argument, because it could be used to say anything could exist. Like unicorns!

Many people claim the exitence of a deity or deitys. Yet no one can provide any evidence. Many claim that the existence of earth and the people on it is evidence of a deity or deitys. Yet there isn't anything to support that claim. There is plenty of evidence to support Evolution and the big bang theory. We don't have all of the evidence and can't prove everything, but there is enough to resonably believe that evolution and the big bang actually happened. Yet there is nothing to suggest a supernatural origin or any supernatural being exists.

[jakee 1,255]

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I did...with scripture.

Firstly, that piece of scripture does not actually say why people deny a God that they can perceive, only that they do. Secondly, it does not apply to me. I do not perceive God's attributes in the world, therefore I can't guess about how I would think if I did.

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...but if I was a neurotic as you suggested earlier, why would I be suffering from delusions?

You tell me - hypothetically of course.

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What is your defense for having a darkened heart?

Who would win in a fight, Superman or Dr Manhatten?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,255]

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One of the posters claimed she had left her faith because at age 8 she felt her mind was tuned to logic and science.

I stated that I find that silly, logic and science do not preclude the existence of a supernatural being. It is just as silly as not believing in logic and science because your mind is tuned to (insert any religion).

No, that is not a valid parallel. One situation is turning away from what cannot be demonstrated or reasoned to in favour of what can, and the other is turning away from what can be demonstrated or reasoned to in favour of what cannot.

Only one of those courses of action is silly.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[klafollette 0]

The real question isn't necessarily about the existence of a super-natural being. Rather, if there is one, why would one want or deserve the distinction as a Deity, God, or anything to be worshiped? I'm guessing an omniscient being wouldn't have those kind of megalomaniac traits or have self-esteem issues requiring constant praise from us.

[Coreece 190]

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...but if I was a neurotic as you suggested earlier, why would I be suffering from delusions?

You tell me - hypothetically of course.

I don't know what you're talking...first you say I'm neurotic, than you say I'm delusional. I didn't know neurotics to be delusional.

It sounds like you're just wailing off insults for the hell of it...You must got me under your skin or something.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ab4VD_ll3h0

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[beowulf 1]

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The real question isn't necessarily about the existence of a super-natural being. Rather, if there is one, why would one want or deserve the distinction as a Deity, God, or anything to be worshiped? I'm guessing an omniscient being wouldn't have those kind of megalomaniac traits or have self-esteem issues requiring constant praise from us.

For you that may be the question, but not for me. I don't see any reason to believe there is any supernatural being in existence. In my opinion any belief in supernatural beings is just imagined.

[steveorino 7]

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Why trust without reservation? why not trust with reservation?

That trust has been earned. Just like I trust my wife of 36 years w/o reservation. Why? Because she has earned that. God/JC has certainly earned my trust w/o reservation.

steveOrino

[beowulf 1]

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Why trust without reservation? why not trust with reservation?

That trust has been earned. Just like I trust my wife of 36 years w/o reservation. Why? Because she has earned that. God/JC has certainly earned my trust w/o reservation.

The interesting thought is if you had been born to muslim parents you would be saying the same thing about Allah. Or possibly hindu parents then you would most likely feel as strongly about their gods as you do for the christian god.

[steveorino 7]

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Why trust without reservation? why not trust with reservation?

That trust has been earned. Just like I trust my wife of 36 years w/o reservation. Why? Because she has earned that. God/JC has certainly earned my trust w/o reservation.

The interesting thought is if you had been born to muslim parents you would be saying the same thing about Allah. Or possibly hindu parents then you would most likely feel as strongly about their gods as you do for the christian god.

Very likely

steveOrino

[klafollette 0]

Well, it's at least the question when it comes to religion vs. atheism. The other debate is creationism vs. evolution. Creationism debate typically assumes a religious construct, but as you say it's also about the nature/existence of a "super-natural" being. That typically means a God or Diety to most people, but those are our labels.

That supernatural being could be something neither a god nor diety. It might not even be intelligent. Our creator could be a giant space-worm that eats comet dust and poops organic organisms.

[beowulf 1]

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Why trust without reservation? why not trust with reservation?

That trust has been earned. Just like I trust my wife of 36 years w/o reservation. Why? Because she has earned that. God/JC has certainly earned my trust w/o reservation.

The interesting thought is if you had been born to muslim parents you would be saying the same thing about Allah. Or possibly hindu parents then you would most likely feel as strongly about their gods as you do for the christian god.

Very likely

In my opinion that lessens the credibility of any of the deitys. If belief simply depends on where you were born or what your parents believed then it isn't really all that likely to be "the truth" as so many Christians like to claim of their faith.

[stevebabin 0]

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That supernatural being could be something neither a god nor diety. It might not even be intelligent. Our creator could be a giant space-worm that eats comet dust and poops organic organisms.

Then it wouldn't be supernatural....just natural.

"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

[beowulf 1]

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Well, it's at least the question when it comes to religion vs. atheism. The other debate is creationism vs. evolution. Creationism debate typically assumes a religious construct, but as you say it's also about the nature/existence of a "super-natural" being. That typically means a God or Diety to most people, but those are our labels.

That supernatural being could be something neither a god nor diety. It might not even be intelligent. Our creator could be a giant space-worm that eats comet dust and poops organic organisms.

I suppose so, but with out evidence they are just interesting imaginings. Science is the attempt to make sense of the world using logic and evidence. If there isn't any evidence then it isn't of much use.

[jakee 1,255]

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I don't know what you're talking...

Well, apparently you believe that the onus is on the person being questioned to always provide an answer, no matter how nonsensical the scenario in question.

So, if you were deluding yourself, what is the reason for your wilfull delusion? You seem to think your original question was deserving of a serious response, so you should be able to give a serious answer to this one, no matter what problems or contradictions are inherent in the question.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[RonD1120 58]

Have you noticed, this thread is no longer about you and the confusion and despair that you feel?

My original post was meant to shock you. I knew what the discussion would turn into and I wanted to rock your mental paradigm.

Christians, especially those ordained in the ministry, are not supposed to say the things I did, and often do.

You stated that you believed you were an evangelical Christian. That means you accepted Christ as deity, as man, as propitiation for your sin and, His resurrection. That cannot be undone. You have been sealed unto the day of your redemption.

God's Word is true and can be tested. You are in the doldrums now. This is a common phenomena for those who seek out a righteous life. Seek and experiment and do whatever you think will give you your answers. In the end you will find Jesus waiting for you, with all forgiveness and total love.

It is said that the age of 30 to 50 is the age of enlightenment. You are entering that age. I believe, yes believe in my heart, that you will experience God's agape love and truth before your are 40.

God bless you brother.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[skydiverkeith 1]

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Have you noticed, this thread is no longer about you and the confusion and despair that you feel?

My original post was meant to shock you. I knew what the discussion would turn into and I wanted to rock your mental paradigm.

Christians, especially those ordained in the ministry, are not supposed to say the things I did, and often do.

You stated that you believed you were an evangelical Christian. That means you accepted Christ as deity, as man, as propitiation for your sin and, His resurrection. That cannot be undone. You have been sealed unto the day of your redemption.

God's Word is true and can be tested. You are in the doldrums now. This is a common phenomena for those who seek out a righteous life. Seek and experiment and do whatever you think will give you your answers. In the end you will find Jesus waiting for you, with all forgiveness and total love.

It is said that the age of 30 to 50 is the age of enlightenment. You are entering that age. I believe, yes believe in my heart, that you will experience God's agape love and truth before your are 40.

God bless you brother.

"Intelligent people are very good at rationalizing unintelligent beliefs."
-Some guy

"I forgive you for your sins my child."
-Keith Medlock

Blue skies,
Keith Medlock

[jakee 1,255]

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Have you noticed, this thread is no longer about you and the confusion and despair that you feel?

My original post was meant to shock you. I knew what the discussion would turn into and I wanted to rock your mental paradigm.

I don't want to get in the way of the whole 'Zen master teaching the disciple' bit you've got going on there, but I feel I must point out that he never suggested he was in despair. In fact, I believe that the word he used to describe his current state of mind was 'refreshing'.



Of course, being the great mind-reading counselor that you are, I expect you're able to understand him better than he understands himself simply by interpreting his few posts here...

Do you want to have an ideagasm?