Andy9o8 0 #126 July 29, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuotePeople often find god in extreme situations. There are no atheists in foxholes!! I just thought that up. Wrong (on both counts). I'm sorry Winsor, but as we've oft complained-of here, there's no "tongue-in-cheek" icon available. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maadmax 0 #127 July 29, 2010 QuoteTwo words for you: Sam Harris http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4erANdR9Yw atheistic rhetoric is always the same, "My beliefs are better than your beliefs, therefore I should tell you what is good for your own sake." Laughable to say the least Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #128 July 29, 2010 Quote"My beliefs are better than your beliefs, therefore I should tell you what is good for your own sake." Sounds like some of the Christians who post on here too. Arrogance is not very becoming from either side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #129 July 29, 2010 QuoteQuoteI have moved away from so much "blind" faith and dogma, but I have never left Jesus, particularly His teachings as a way of life. Isn't that statement contradictary? Beliving in Jesus' teachings is beleiving in the integreaty of those that are responsable for relaying that message, that is faith in its purest form. I said I moved away from "blind faith", not "faith." I see a difference between the two. To me, faith is not belief without proof, but trust without reservations -- a trust in a God who has shown himself worthy to me of that trust. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #130 July 29, 2010 QuoteQuote"My beliefs are better than your beliefs, therefore I should tell you what is good for your own sake." Sounds like some of the Christians who post on here too. Arrogance is not very becoming from either side. Well, there is only like four or five of us....if you have a problem speak out, point it out...be specific. It is not my intention to be arrogant, and I'll admit that discussions tend to get heated and personal in this debate atmosphere...it's not like the real world, face to face...that's why I rather just answer questions or replies with olny scripture...that way you can either reject it or accept without my own carnality getting in the way. It really is a catch 22...if we speak gently, it is looked at as a weakness and are considered cliche cowards, if we speak boldly we are condescending jerks. The bottom line is that we are trying to give an explanation of the Bible as we understand it, or give our experiences just like everyone else wether they believe or not. I understand it can seem offensive, but it is most offensive to those who don't want to deal with their sin. It's like how most people deal with problems, they just pretend it's not there...very convenient. I try my best to be as honest as I can, and I feel I've given plenty of examples of my own faults and how unworthy I am, as well as a willingness to reach out...but not everything is rainbows and jelly beans. Edit ...and I'm sure if you actually tally up all the arrogance in all of the posts over the years, you'll find that the athiest have us beat hands down. Sometimes it's the only thing they will respect...even though they'll call us out on it everytime. Futhermore, if you live life on a fence either you will live in fear of falling off, crush your balls, or get impaled...Compromise can only go so far. Revelation 3:15-20 "'I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth. For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked. I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see. Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent. Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me. This is indeed the word of God...If it was the word of man, it would say what we want it to say. How can any of this be the word of man when man cannot even understand? Yet it can be preceived by the senses...Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silent_pumpkin 0 #131 July 29, 2010 I always hated that saying. If an atheist believes there isn't an afterlife, wouldn't they be damn sure to do the job well (knowing it falls on them without a superpower to help them) and SURVIVE (to avoid the darkness)? Maybe not rely on a boogey man to help them coast and carry them to heaven if things don't go as planned. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #132 July 29, 2010 Quote I always hated that saying. If an atheist believes there isn't an afterlife, wouldn't they be damn sure to do the job well (knowing it falls on them without a superpower to help them) and SURVIVE (to avoid the darkness)? Maybe not rely on a boogey man to help them coast and carry them to heaven if things don't go as planned. This is the same concept I was talking about earlier: Quote As I was driving cross country alone (so alone) as a new athiest, I remember thinking to myself that "I'm alone...there is no God...damn man, I gotta stop fuckin' around..." and it occured to me at that moment that my concept of God was completely flawed and at best, utterly inaccurate. Why would I say that I gotta stop fuckin around now that I don't believe in God? I realized that throughout my life I felt I could just do whatever I wanted and God would just clean up the mess (if any) and I could just go on doing my own thing and it would just be alright. That's one of the many problems with Christianity today. But one thing is for sure...you'll never get through to these people if you can't relate to them on their level... If you really wanna help and not just mock in order to indulge your pride, you're gonna have to try and understand...If not, mock on with zero results...but who knows, maybe you'll be saved in the process. I'm gonna give all my secrets away... - with lyrics I'm gonna give all my secrets away... - original video (louder)Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silent_pumpkin 0 #133 July 29, 2010 As for how to talk to 'them' on 'their' level, I'm not sure that is possible as you are also one of them that I was apparently preaching to... Anyway, I don't often get the chance to discuss these ideas so I just blurt out whatever sounds awesome in my head, not how it is going to convince others that may think differently. I'm not trying to bring anyone over to the dark side, fun as it is (we have cookies). Just my opinion as I've festered on it for over a decade and it came out in this form. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #134 July 29, 2010 Quote As for how to talk to 'them' on 'their' level, I'm not sure that is possible It is...I assure you. Quote you are also one of them that I was apparently preaching to... well, I was...but I don't have "that reading comprehension problem" anymore. Quote Anyway, I don't often get the chance to discuss these ideas so I just blurt out whatever sounds awesome in my head I know...I know it all to well. Been there...Have you been here? Quote I'm not trying to bring anyone over to the dark side Not at all what I was saying... btw...why is that people always have to apologize in PM's. Why not just do it in public so it actually means something? Of what are people so damn afraid? It's not like Athiest bite...I assume they rather eat cookies.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silent_pumpkin 0 #135 July 29, 2010 Sorry about the misinterpretation. No reading comprehension problems, you seemed to be catering to me in your reply but your other posts which I glossed over and saw "christians 'there are 4-5 of us'" and scripture made me think otherwise. I see your side now. It's just that Speaker's Corner and religion usually brings a lot of regurgitated dogma that I wish to ignore - not enough time to post a reply to all and not worth it to get my blood pressure up. What do you mean 'been there'? I've been a devout atheist for over 20 years and grew tired of trying to defend my position when anyone else disagreed, so I let it go - my beliefs are mine and their beliefs are their own. I appreciate the energy you have put forth towards this, personally I don't see any change except hoping to enlighten others when they are closed-minded without much success. Some things belong in a pm and there are enough things to get flamed for here. Truth be told, I kinda felt embarrassed about you calling me out on an opinion in which a PM would have been appreciated. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meso 38 #136 July 29, 2010 You're too nice! Entirely too much apologizing... You won't find apologies in return here. And while on the issues of apologies. Why should one have to apologize in public? The only reason why someone would want such a thing is if their aim was to make the other person look bad to others. An apology need only between two people. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
philh 0 #137 July 29, 2010 Why trust without reservation? why not trust with reservation? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,255 #138 July 29, 2010 Quoteatheistic rhetoric is always the same, "My beliefs are better than your beliefs, therefore I should tell you what is good for your own sake." Laughable to say the least I'm sorry, but isn't that just a description of the entire Christian religion? I wonder why you're so devoted to something you think is laughable...Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,255 #139 July 29, 2010 QuoteI understand it can seem offensive, but it is most offensive to those who don't want to deal with their sin. It's offensive to people who don't like being spoken down to by condescending tools who assume they should automatically be the arbiters of morality and behaviour for everyone else. Quote It's like how most people deal with problems, they just pretend it's not there...very convenient. It's not there. It's an imaginary problem that exists only in your heads, and I see no reason to change my behaviour to comply with your neuroses. Quote...and I'm sure if you actually tally up all the arrogance in all of the posts over the years, you'll find that the athiest have us beat hands down. That may or may not be true. But if it is, you can consider it to be just the tiniest response to the overwhelming win for Christian arrogance in general society.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,122 #140 July 29, 2010 QuoteWhat assumptions do you think science is based on? The assumption that what is not yet scientifically proven, can be scientifically proven. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #141 July 29, 2010 QuoteSome things belong in a pm and there are enough things to get flamed for here. Truth be told, I kinda felt embarrassed about you calling me out on an opinion in which a PM would have been appreciated. And I knew better than that...I apologize. and...I hope you received my PM.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #142 July 29, 2010 QuoteWhy should one have to apologize in public? The only reason why someone would want such a thing is if their aim was to make the other person look bad to others. An apology need only between two people. Perhaps, but there was more to it and I don't feel it appropriate anymore to talk about the PM I received...It's over now.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #143 July 29, 2010 QuoteQuoteWhat assumptions do you think science is based on? The assumption that what is not yet scientifically proven, can be scientifically proven. So I guess we should just give up and say "God" did it? Is that what you are trying to say? Your argument is very weak and really doesn't compare to the assumptions made in believing in a deity. Past performance supports the belief that we can learn and that we haven't reached the limit of what we as humans can learn about the world around us. So what you consider to be an assumption has much to support it as opposed to any deity. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #144 July 29, 2010 Quote It's offensive to people who don't like being spoken down to by condescending tools look who's talking.... Quote It's not there. yes it is...quit lying to yourself...take a look around.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManagingPrime 0 #145 July 29, 2010 I'm going to check back on this thread next week. It's my hope that one of the sides has won by then so that humanity can finally put this issue to rest. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,255 #146 July 29, 2010 Quoteyes it is...quit lying to yourself...take a look around. It's not... quit lying to everyone. The boogeyman is not going to come and get me if I don't live my life to your standards.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
klafollette 0 #147 July 29, 2010 I've found it interesting that there is such a inherent linkage from the concept of "a creator" to "god" and "worship". For those who assume that being an atheist means not believing in a creator, I disagree. I allow for the possibility that life on earth could have been sparked by either natural/chemical processes, or even possibly by deliberate means. That could mean it was done by a long extinct intelligent race, or even existing beings that secretly watch us. We could be a giant science experiment, or an accident. Just because we may have been "created", that does not warrant a leap to "God" status or worship. If we appeared to Neanderthals with our current technology, we would likely be thought of as "Gods". It is a giant leap for us to put upon our potential creators "God" status without understanding their motives. If they have the power to destroy us and make it known we must worship them or die, then I might decide to play by their rules. But then again they might say, Oh yeah, we were playing with a new gene splicing tool 100 million years ago, and accidentally sent some samples to your planet when Bob miss-dialed the transporter. Sorry about that. Been cool watching you all evolve. You've been worshiping us as Gods all these years? That's silly, we're just Andromeda government employees. Bob was promoted to management in the last millennium after that last screw-up. For those who say there is proof that "God" wants us to worship him, read the bible. Well you have no proof that the bible is the word of God. It is more likely the word of Man trying to explain things that he could not understand long ago.. Other than the words of the bible themselves and professed faith, there is no independent proof of its description of the genesis of life or the existence of "God". Frankly I think it was manuscript written by Bob. He hoped to have his novel published since he hated his dead-end gov't job in the Andromeda gene splicing dept. It was on his desk when he miss-dialed the transporter. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #148 July 29, 2010 QuoteThe boogeyman is not going to come and get me if I don't live my life to your standards. That's not what I'm talking about. forget it...Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #149 July 29, 2010 Quote I understand it can seem offensive, but it is most offensive to those who don't want to deal with their sin. It's like how most people deal with problems, they just pretend it's not there...very convenient. Well, here is one example. Quote ...and I'm sure if you actually tally up all the arrogance in all of the posts over the years, you'll find that the athiest have us beat hands down. I think this is probably true, but mostly because there seems to be more atheists/agnostics than Christians who post in here. Quote This is indeed the word of God... Interesting that God speaks English. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #150 July 29, 2010 Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I heard Bill Mahr say that as well. Very true. I was going to say it but this is SC then I would have to spend 20 posts explaining that I understand that we have atheist in the armed services who sacrifice for others. You know how it goes here. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What, you mean there are people here who will call you on saying something you know is wrong? No There are people here who everything seems to go over there head or they go out of there way to focus on what they can pick apart so they can feel smart. It’s an Ego thing I think they need to feel special. So they twist and turn to miss the point.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
