The scentific method or assumtion, what are you inclined to beleive.

[Royd 0]

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No, it wasn't. The trusses holding up each floor were either welded or bolted to one of two structural systems - the central core or the perimeter wall.

Welded, bolted, riveted...It doesn't matter..It it was nothing but a z-bar truss system, with an indivdual plate, hanging each end of the truss, from the superstructure, the whole system was only as strong as the connection.
If, say, every tenth floor was a beam system, resting fully, on the superstructure, they probably wouldn't have collapsed...At least, not as quickly.
The fact is, those buildings were chosen, as targets, because they had been studied, and it was obvious, what would happen, in that scenario.
It wasn't just about sticking a thumb in the eye of a capitalist society, because that's what those buildings represented.

[champu 1]

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Afterall, over engineering costs money and time, and isn't necessary.

Over-engineering, by definition, isn't necessary. If it were necessary, it would just be engineering. If you want the building to withstand a run in with a fully fueled 757 at full throttle, tell the engineers and architects up front.

Anything that can be built can be destroyed.

[sundevil777 94]

It was twin aisle 767s that the the WTC, substantially larger than a single aisle 757.

The Pentagon was hit by a single aisle 757.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[billvon 2,464]

>Welded, bolted, riveted...It doesn't matter.

The construction of the tower that you claim was shoddily constructed doesn't matter?

>It it was nothing but a z-bar truss system, with an indivdual plate,
>hanging each end of the truss, from the superstructure, the whole system
>was only as strong as the connection.

Yep. And it turned out to be pretty damn strong. They both survived the impacts of fully fueled 767's going close to their full speed, which is an event beyond what they were designed to withstand. They even withstood the resulting fire for a while, but in the end the combined damage caused by the impacts and the fires was too much.

The Empire State Building survived being struck by a B-25 bomber. It would stand a significantly greater chance of surviving a strike by a 767. Could it survive a strike by a Concorde going at its maximum speed? Probably not; there's just too much energy there. But that doesn't mean that it was shoddily constructed.

[DJL 232]

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The fact is, those buildings were chosen, as targets, because they had been studied, and it was obvious, what would happen, in that scenario.
It wasn't just about sticking a thumb in the eye of a capitalist society, because that's what those buildings represented.

Actually, Bin Laden said that they did not think that the buildings' destruction would be so complete. However, it's very apparent from the earlier garage bomb that they knew exactly which set of supports would do the most damage. I wonder how well Bin Laden was connected to specifics and the "they" who planned and carried out the attacks.

Edit to add: Therefore it's much more likely that George Bush told them what to do.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[champu 1]

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It was twin aisle 767s that the the WTC, substantially larger than a single aisle 757.

The Pentagon was hit by a single aisle 757.

You're absolutely correct, American 11 and United 175 were 767-200 series and American 77 and United 93 were 757-200 series. The 767s are 20-50% more massive depending on the config.

Hopefully my point was still clear.

But speaking of all these airplanes, why are folks that are upset with the building designers not also upset with the Boeing engineers? Why didn't the plane just fly right out the other side of the building? What a piece of junk.

[rhys 0]

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>It it was nothing but a z-bar truss system, with an indivdual plate,
>hanging each end of the truss, from the superstructure, the whole system
>was only as strong as the connection.

Yep. And it turned out to be pretty damn strong. They both survived the impacts of fully fueled 767's going close to their full speed, which is an event beyond what they were designed to withstand. They even withstood the resulting fire for a while, but in the end the combined damage caused by the impacts and the fires was too much.

some sloppy laymans terms going on there,

Try debunk this then, will you argue with Newton?
I imagine most would zone out after about 30 seconds and throw back an insult but you Bill should at least be able to argue these very basic physics;

You tube presentation on uniform acceleration and Nist.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[Coreece 190]

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The scentific method or assumtion, what are you inclined to beleive.

assumption....

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[sundevil777 94]

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>It it was nothing but a z-bar truss system, with an indivdual plate,
>hanging each end of the truss, from the superstructure, the whole system
>was only as strong as the connection.

Yep. And it turned out to be pretty damn strong. They both survived the impacts of fully fueled 767's going close to their full speed, which is an event beyond what they were designed to withstand. They even withstood the resulting fire for a while, but in the end the combined damage caused by the impacts and the fires was too much.

some sloppy laymans terms going on there,

Try debunk this then, will you argue with Newton?
I imagine most would zone out after about 30 seconds and throw back an insult but you Bill should at least be able to argue these very basic physics;

You tube presentation on uniform acceleration and Nist.

No need to argue with Newton. Your problem (the clearly stated assumption of your video) is that you think the buildings uniformly accelerated. They did not, the data presented in your video shows that. I've pointed this out to you many times, but you pretend that it isn't so. Just because the guy making your video doesn't want to recognize the fact that the acceleration wasn't uniform doesn't mean you have to overlook it. Even with the crude method of measuring that acceleration, it still shows up in that data. Pay attention.

Also, that video was really pathetic. Talk about crappy analogies!

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[rhys 0]

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Also, that video was really pathetic. Talk about crappy analogies!

It is not an analogy it is an experiment, and the experiment follows newtons laws, and shows tangible evidence of those laws on moving objects. Nist do not follow newtons laws.

If experiment is not how you do your science, how do you do it?


NIST even admitted that the structure would have to be removed in order to gain freefall momentum, yet a year or so later, after that statement, they admitted wtc7 reached freefall acceleration in thier final draft of the building performance report. But we now about that already as we have discussed it numrous times, yet it remains ignored.

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ust because the guy making your video doesn't want to recognize the fact that the acceleration wasn't uniform doesn't mean you have to overlook it. Even with the crude method of measuring that acceleration, it still shows up in that data. Pay attention.

You are obviously unaware of david chandlers work and how it has pressured the NIST into aditting the freefall acceleration. and what the rammifications of that are.

You are right that it was not exactly freefall as it was not in a vacum and there was a building below it no matter how weakened it was there.

The true nature of the twin towers collapse is skewed behind a massive cloud of debris from a massive expolsion upon initiation.

picture

Building 7 was in plain sight with no towering inferno and has been calculated many times over by many people including NIST. It was not until david bought this uniform collapse evidence forward and after and embarressing backspin;

watch and listen.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[sundevil777 94]

You ignore that your data shows that the accel was NOT UNIFORM.

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If experiment is not how you do your science, how do you do it?

The depth of your lack of understanding is shown by your acceptance of your video to be showing an experiment. If you knew better you would be embarrassed.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[rhys 0]

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The depth of your lack of understanding is shown by your acceptance of your video to be showing an experiment. If you knew better you would be embarrassed.

For now you have shown that your ability to engage in intellegent discussion is limited.

Unless you can have some sort of scientific explanation to present or at least an attempt to clarify your assertions, will lead me to believe you lost interest after 30 seconds and decided to throw an insult instead.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[jakee 1,271]

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Unless you can have some sort of scientific explanation to present or at least an attempt to clarify your assertions, will lead me to believe you lost interest after 30 seconds and decided to throw an insult instead.

He already did, you've ignored it.

Now why don't you go back to playing with your Jenga?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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Quote

>It it was nothing but a z-bar truss system, with an indivdual plate,
>hanging each end of the truss, from the superstructure, the whole system
>was only as strong as the connection.

Yep. And it turned out to be pretty damn strong. They both survived the impacts of fully fueled 767's going close to their full speed, which is an event beyond what they were designed to withstand. They even withstood the resulting fire for a while, but in the end the combined damage caused by the impacts and the fires was too much.

some sloppy laymans terms going on there,

Try debunk this then, will you argue with Newton?
I imagine most would zone out after about 30 seconds and throw back an insult but you Bill should at least be able to argue these very basic physics;

You tube presentation on uniform acceleration and Nist.

You...and the video...assume David Chandler was correct.
Problem for you is, he wasn't.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[sundevil777 94]

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Quote

The depth of your lack of understanding is shown by your acceptance of your video to be showing an experiment. If you knew better you would be embarrassed.

For now you have shown that your ability to engage in intellegent discussion is limited.

Unless you can have some sort of scientific explanation to present or at least an attempt to clarify your assertions, will lead me to believe you lost interest after 30 seconds and decided to throw an insult instead.

Your underlying assumption (that you state/the video states) is wrong. The acceleration wasn't uniform. The data is your guy's data, and it shows that the acceleration wasn't steady. Do I have to point to the jagged shape of the data? Can't you see it? Besides the shape of the data that is visible, the method of measuring the fall is not precise enough, and not sampled often enough to resolve all of the fluctuations that certainly would have happened.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[rhys 0]

Quote

Your underlying assumption (that you state/the video states) is wrong. The acceleration wasn't uniform. The data is your guy's data, and it shows that the acceleration wasn't steady. Do I have to point to the jagged shape of the data? Can't you see it? Besides the shape of the data that is visible, the method of measuring the fall is not precise enough, and not sampled often enough to resolve all of the fluctuations that certainly would have happened.

You would have to be some sort of idiot to not take vcertain things into account.

The was a building there and the roofline remained sationary until the pinit it started moving, the inside of the builfdng collapses a moment immediately prior to the perimeter wall collapsing;

FROM THE MOMENT THE PERIMETER WALL BEGINS COLLAPSING, th momentum is 'practically' freefall acceleration.

There will be some friction from air resistance and debris collosions. Show me your kink in the data, are you talking about the time periods where nothing happens, or are you observing momentum during this time?

There is not enough time from the onset of collapse to complete destruction to allow the friction that would be necessary for all floor connections to break as the friction of those breakages would have slowed the building down.

You need to add in time for these things, without this time all you re left with is freefall, and that is what NIST have admitted, that is what many have admitted,

Admittance that freefall of the building occured suggests one thing and one thing only!!!!

Controlled demolition!!

There is no escaping science my horny freind, but if you would care, show me how you believe freefall did not occur.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[mnealtx 0]

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Admittance that freefall of the building occured suggests one thing and one thing only!!!!

Controlled demolition!!

Except that demolitions experts take building down from the bottom up and not the top down.

http://www.implosionworld.com/Article-WTC%20STUDY%208-06%20w%20clarif%20as%20of%209-8-06%20.pdf

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kelpdiver 2]

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You would have to be some sort of idiot to not take vcertain things into account.

idiocy is allowing you to resurrect an old thread.

Winter blues, eh?

[rhys 0]

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Except that demolitions experts take building down from the bottom up and not the top down.

yeah! and we always do things the same way and never develop new methods, yeah.



stop looking for excuses and admit those buildings fell down faster then what anybodey ever could have expected them to, and for them to fall that fast then somehowor other, by what means possible, be it technology new or old, that some serous question remain unanswered and swep under the carpet...

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[mnealtx 0]

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Quote

Except that demolitions experts take building down from the bottom up and not the top down.

yeah! and we always do things the same way and never develop new methods, yeah.



stop looking for excuses and admit those buildings fell down faster then what anybodey ever could have expected them to, and for them to fall that fast then somehowor other, by what means possible, be it technology new or old, that some serous question remain unanswered and swep under the carpet...

Whatever you say, rhys - you're obviously better informed about demolition than a company with over 30 years experience.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[billvon 2,464]

>Try debunk this then, will you argue with Newton?

No need to argue with Newton. Things fall at 9.8 meters per second squared here on planet earth. If there is significant resistance they fall more slowly. If there's not significant resistance, they accelerate at the above speed. Simple.

[rhys 0]

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idiocy is allowing you to resurrect an old thread.

Winter blues, eh?

idocy is letting yourself believe the the impication from this are anything to ignore, forget, or sweep under the carpet.

Do you not think the Iraq, and afghanistan scenario is not a problem?

Why is there no emphasis in the trial for the supposed pepertrator?

10 years later, you have a guy (KSM)you say is responasable, in custody, all this bullshit being said about another guy (OBL) that has been blamed, the whole time but nothing ever eventuates about it even though the mans family is close friends of Americas elite and trillions of dollars being fed into the monster.

You pretend that that issue is worth forgetting about because you invested you reputation on it 5 years ago, when you seriously anybody that believed anything other thena the official story was a fool...

...because you so desparately do not want to believe it, not only do you have to admit fault, but it becomes the point in time where a person realises that our society is rotten to the bone!

Nobody wants to know this uncomfortble truth, and what impact we have on the very life that sustains us. Our frivilous and unsustainable lifestyles are too easy for us now and changing is apparently...


too hard!




but the truth is the truth and there is no ecaping it.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[mnealtx 0]

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>Try debunk this then, will you argue with Newton?

No need to argue with Newton. Things fall at 9.8 meters per second squared here on planet earth. If there is significant resistance they fall more slowly. If there's not significant resistance, they accelerate at the above speed. Simple.

Newton didn't know what he was talking about, either - just ask rhys.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[rhys 0]

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Quote

stop looking for excuses and admit those buildings fell down faster then what anybodey ever could have expected them to, and for them to fall that fast then somehowor other, by what means possible, be it technology new or old, that some serous question remain unanswered and swep under the carpet..

.

Whatever you say, rhys - you're obviously better informed about demolition than a company with over 30 years experience.

Whatever?!

You ar saying that the top explosives experts in the commercial market will know about every incendiary that has been developed?

That is assumtion my freind and if that is what you base you beleifs in then there is no wonder you are so askew from reality.


It is one thing to be unaware when you have no idea because you were not told, but it is another thing to say you are fully aware of evrerything (which is actually impossible) and therefore canoot be incorrect.

You are beleiveing every thing you are told from the authorities as gospel and ignoring the fact that you know as well as everybody that corruption is rife among and institution that holds andy significant money or power.

Ignoring these aspects makes one ignorant.

not contemplating any feasable scenario when questions of great proportions, still unanswered on many levels of the official story then ignoring that alone and simply standing by the official story blindly, and is not making your own decision.

One would expect there would continue to be questions for decades, which there has been, and that we would like to learn as much as possible about the subject. We are expected to not bring it up yet it reamins the underlying question that is responsable for undoubtably the worlds worst current affiar.

yeah, you guys are onto it!

Just sweep it under the carpet.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[kelpdiver 2]

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...because you so desparately do not want to believe it, not only do you have to admit fault, but it becomes the point in time where a person realises that our society is rotten to the bone!

The US (and many other 1st world nations) have a problem with spending, and waste. That is rotten, and seems to have a day of reckoning.

But the bombings - sorry, there's no great conspiracy that will be in a Dan Brown novel someday. You keep wanting to believe, so you see anything that confirms, and distrust anything contrary (look at your recent postings on the Korea situation).