Should baseball pull the 2011 All-Star game from Arizona?

[SivaGanesha 2]

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Well, for most of them, the rules were a lot easier.

You think it's easy for a Latino from outside the USA--or for anyone, for that matter--to acquire the skills necessary to play baseball at the MLB level?

"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

[masterrig 1]

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Well, for most of them, the rules were a lot easier.

You think it's easy for a Latino from outside the USA--or for anyone, for that matter--to acquire the skills necessary to play baseball at the MLB level?

Tommy Lasorda, opened the eyes of MLB to the Dominican Leagues and other Latin countries. Check-out how many players come from Latin countries. Not just the 'Bigs' but in the minors.


Chuck

[wmw999 2,122]

I wasn't talking about the baseball rules. I was talking about the visa rules. They're much easier when you both have a popular skill, and lots of financial resources to help you get the visa.

A friend of mine once played in a recreational softball league with a former A player. He said that player was incredibly better than anyone else on the team, and he washed out at the A level.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[SivaGanesha 2]

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I wasn't talking about the baseball rules. I was talking about the visa rules. They're much easier when you both have a popular skill, and lots of financial resources to help you get the visa...

Exactly. It is supposed to be a competitive process. If you bring significant skills to the table (eg in this case baseball), the visa process is made a bit easier. Acquiring those skills, though, is hard work.

Being admitted properly and legally to the USA is much like applying for admission to any other organization, be it a job, graduate school, or a spot on a MLB roster. It is competitive. It is intended to be competitive, and it is intended that those who work hard to acquire the needed skills will have an advantage over those who don't.

Some people seem to see all this as a problem but I don't see it as a problem--I see it as a good thing.

"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

[masterrig 1]

Don't we have a 'quota'?


Chuck

[SivaGanesha 2]

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Don't we have a 'quota'?

Many quotas, in fact, depending on the category you are applying for. Some categories--eg sponsoring a spouse (straight, not gay, only--I'll concede the rules are unfairly discriminatory for this group)--have no quota.

The waiting lists tend to be shorter in the categories that involve more highly qualified people. And, although it is always slow, the risk of unexpected further delay is less if you can afford to hire a lawyer.

"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

[masterrig 1]

Thanks, for that info.


Chuck

[wmw999 2,122]

I didn't say it shouldn't be. But it's disingenuous to say that if major league baseball players can do it, yard workers should be able to.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[pirana 0]

Let me get this straight. People want the game boycotted because it is being held in a state that wants to enforce existing immigration laws, Correct?

This is extremely silly, and the issue of whether or not immigration laws should be enforced is so completely irrelevant to what state hosts the All star Game that I'm tempted to label the request as 100% assinine.

What's next? Will the American Reckless Drivers Association demand the game be played in the state that issues the fewest speeding tickets? Maybe the Mutt Producers Assn will boycott the game if it is held in a state that enforces puppy mills laws?

Engage your brains folks.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[RPC1117 0]

Baseball needs to stay out of politics.

For those that think MLB has a responsibility to stand up against this controversial law…why are you being so selective? Why not call for MLB to pull all games in the state of California (or a number of other states) since gay marriage isn’t allowed there. Better yet, why not call for MLB to pull all games in America and Canada since pot isn’t legal?? Motorcycle helmet laws in NY are asinine...talk about a limitation on personal freedoms!!! No more games at Yankee Stadium!!

[billvon 2,400]

>For those that think MLB has a responsibility to stand up against
>this controversial law…why are you being so selective?

The MLB does not have a responsibility to stand up to anything - nor does Arizona have the right to demand that the game be played there. I am sure that Arizona immigration laws are not the biggest issue the organizers have to deal with, but I am also certain that some of the players have strong feelings about the law. I'd expect the organizers to take into account the player's opinions, the amount of money they might lose to sponsors if they go to Arizona, the expected spectator draw, their agreements with the networks, the deals they will get while they are there etc.

[billvon 2,400]

Looks like even the GOP is considering "going elsewhere" at least partly because of this law.

===============
Republican Party plans Tampa '12 convention

The Republican National Committee's site-selection committee is expected to name Tampa, Fla., on Wednesday as site of the party’s 2012 convention, top Republicans tell POLITICO.

The site-selection committee is scheduled to announce a choice among three finalists: Phoenix, Salt Lake City and Tampa. The committee has made high-publicity visits to the top prospects, which put on the dog to show what they could do for the GOP.

. . .

The operatives said Phoenix was eliminated, largely because Arizona in late August reminds Republicans of their sweltering 1992 convention in Houston. And the Grand Canyon State is facing boycotts because of its new immigration law, which would not present an inviting face for the party.
===========

[SivaGanesha 2]

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I didn't say it shouldn't be. But it's disingenuous to say that if major league baseball players can do it, yard workers should be able to.

My claim is more that it is difficult for the MLB player--not that it is easy for the yard workers. We tend to only see the MLB players in their time of glory, when visa issues (usually) are the least of their challenges. The public does not see the years or decades of hard work that it takes to hone one's skills to play at the MLB level.

The MLB player who finally qualifies for one of those "easy" visas has walked a road that is just as hard and long as the guy in the Philippines with a sister in the USA who has to wait out a 20+ year waiting list. But the public only sees the final, easy, steps.

"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

[SivaGanesha 2]

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I didn't say it shouldn't be. But it's disingenuous to say that if major league baseball players can do it, yard workers should be able to.

Or to put it another way--most MLB players, and potential players, AFAIK wait until it is legal to do so before they set foot in the USA. That means years and years of staying in their home countries, working hard, until they are able to come to the USA. The visa itself might take only a few weeks to process once they have the skills, but getting those skills take years. And they follow the law until they get the skills.

OTOH there IS a legal category for unskilled workers. Right now the backlog is about nine years. Yes, that's a long time, but IMHO not necessarily any longer than it would take for a MLB player to acquire the skills necessary to get a visa. But this group of people--unlike the MLB players--seem unwilling to abide by the law and wait outside the USA until their turn comes.

"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

[maxmadmax 8]

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What say ye?

Not only should baseball not pull the All Star Game, but if baseball does pull the All Star Game out of Arizona, then it should lose its antitrust exemption.

Nor do I have any respect for a federal politician asking baseball to solve a problem that, thus far, the federal government has lacked the courage to solve.

Even though I am strongly anti-illegal immigration, and therefore disagree with Sen Menendez, I would have some respect for him if he would say, look, immigration reform is necessary NOW and even as a Democrat, all co-operation with Obama is suspended until Obama addresses immigration.

That's what Sen Menendez should be doing if he feels strongly about this issue. To ask baseball to do a job that Sen Menendez could be doing for himself right there in Washington is the coward's way out.

+1

Don't go away mad....just go away!

[popsjumper 2]

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Yea, but AZ doesn't respect anyone but ole whitey;

One of top ten stupidest comments ever made on DZ.com....or anywhere.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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To ask baseball to do a job that Sen Menendez could be doing for himself right there in Washington is the coward's way out.

Bingo!

Although I'm not sure exactly which job is it you're talking about.

Illegal immigration in general or AZ's approach to addressing the problem

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

I'm sorry, Wendy. I could not pass this up.

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I didn't say it shouldn't be. But it's disingenuous to say that if major league baseball players can do it, yard workers should be able to.

Wendy P.

But, but we already HAVE enough yard workers.And 1 or 2 of them ARE legals!

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Lucky... 0]

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Yea, but AZ doesn't respect anyone but ole whitey;

One of top ten stupidest comments ever made on DZ.com....or anywhere.

What crawled up your ass? Now you're hawking my posts just because of the 2-hands on each handle thread. Deal with it.

What I find really stupid is when people make an assertion, criticism, etc w/o any support, and that goes to all.

[billvon 2,400]

Your one warning. Cut it out.

[Lucky... 0]

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Your one warning. Cut it out.

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Your one warning. Cut it out.

Bill, what are you waiting for? I mean why haven't you already deleted me? Really, every MF and his brother take shots at me constantly. I realize it's not about fairness, it's about keeping the clique happy in order to keep the website hits up. I realize it's nothing personal, just a jack-me-off game of balancing things to keep the majority happy under the guise of FORUM RULES. BULLSHIT, all those times where people took major shots and you said, "I took care of it in private." Right, keeps the majority happy so they keep coming back, so the sponsors keep paying, etc.

Example:

Lucky, you are one bigoted, senseless asshole who doesn't deserve the oxygen you are stealing from the rest of us.
If you were half as smart as you think you are, you would be twice as smart as you actually are. (Take your time and figure it out, or find a 5th grader to explain it to you.)
Yes, this post is a PA, and is not disguised as anything else.


JCEMAN http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=3858630;page=2;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;

And then Quade says, "aw shucks, cut it out."

I've been here for years, you know who I am by username and my real name, I'm just curious as to why you don't delete me. I'm the kind of motherfucker to face a man and ask WTF, so here I am. I'm not like the pussy punk 5'4", 140 lbs squirrels on here who are all balls on the keyboard with manicured nails, yet face to face they look at the floor. Do you not delete me because you don't want to look like a total Nazi; a guy like me who takes constant shots, yet I even ask what's up their ass and I get warned? I mean, might that hurt your website hits on the other end?

And no, I'm not complaining. And no, I'm not questioning. I understand your job is to keep the old-time trolls happy to get the website hits and when I say things like, "fascist Pig Ronnie" that hurts some of your clientele. so you have to find a way to rid the forum of that in order to keep the maggots (conservatives) happy. So again, am I right that you don't just delete me due to that looking like you're catering too much to that side, hurting hits from the lefties? Bill, I don't think you're a punk, man-up and tell me what keeps you from deleting me rather than just letting people take massive shots at me, trying to warn me off every time I even almost start to defend myself. Do it in open forum, I mean, everyone knows the moderation is arbitrary and capricious, I think everyone wants to know. You could be a dick and delete me and all this BS, but I am asking you to clarify this for the forum, I guarantee all would read. Explain why some people get away with murder, others can’t breathe. We all kinda know, so this is basically a rhetorical question, but just take the high road here.

[SivaGanesha 2]

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Illegal immigration in general or AZ's approach to addressing the problem

I was referring to illegal immigration in general. I see AZ's approach as a stopgap because of federal inaction. If the feds acted in either direction--either legalizing illegal immigrants in large numbers or enforcing to the point where it was no longer profitable for illegal immigrants to stay--the numbers of illegal immigrants would drop considerably, and there would be much less need for action at the state level.

This is a divisive issue and I think that federal politicians are afraid to take a stand, preferring to punt to the states and now, it seems, to baseball. But ultimately it is the job they are being paid to do--even if it means accepting a compromise that neither side is fully happy with.

Another issue: if baseball really did pull the All-Star game, it would face enormous pressure to also pull the Cactus League out of Arizona in Spring 2011--which would be logistically impossible.

"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

[Lucky... 0]

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Your one warning. Cut it out.

His stands and Mine gets deleted and you won't answer the question? Really? You won't address the issue. Does this make the maggots happy when you side with them? Increase/maintain your site hits under teh giuse of keeping the forum clean? And they acuse me of status quo? Do what ya gotta do, it's pathetic that you delete mine and his BS stands. Address it or do what ya gotta do to continue the pandering to website hits and general so-called forum etequite. You don’t even do shit when a guy says, “Lucky, you are one bigoted, senseless asshole who doesn't deserve the oxygen you are stealing from the rest of us. “ And when another guy says something ½ that vile and I ask what’s up his ass I get dinged, that’s moderation. Just tell us, delete me or do whatever it is you consider fair as usual. Talk about status quo; keeping the lemmings happy via Utilitarianism.


Bill, what are you waiting for? I mean why haven't you already deleted me? Really, every MF and his brother take shots at me constantly. I realize it's not about fairness, it's about keeping the clique happy in order to keep the website hits up. I realize it's nothing personal, just a jack-me-off game of balancing things to keep the majority happy under the guise of FORUM RULES. BULLSHIT, all those times where people took major shots and you said, "I took care of it in private." Right, keeps the majority happy so they keep coming back, so the sponsors keep paying, etc.

Example:

Lucky, you are one bigoted, senseless asshole who doesn't deserve the oxygen you are stealing from the rest of us.
If you were half as smart as you think you are, you would be twice as smart as you actually are. (Take your time and figure it out, or find a 5th grader to explain it to you.)
Yes, this post is a PA, and is not disguised as anything else.


JCEMAN http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=3858630;page=2;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;

And then Quade says, "aw shucks, cut it out."

I've been here for years, you know who I am by username and my real name, I'm just curious as to why you don't delete me. I'm the kind of motherfucker to face a man and ask WTF, so here I am. I'm not like the pussy punk 5'4", 140 lbs squirrels on here who are all balls on the keyboard with manicured nails, yet face to face they look at the floor. Do you not delete me because you don't want to look like a total Nazi; a guy like me who takes constant shots, yet I even ask what's up their ass and I get warned? I mean, might that hurt your website hits on the other end?

And no, I'm not complaining. And no, I'm not questioning. I understand your job is to keep the old-time trolls happy to get the website hits and when I say things like, "fascist Pig Ronnie" that hurts some of your clientele. so you have to find a way to rid the forum of that in order to keep the maggots (conservatives) happy. So again, am I right that you don't just delete me due to that looking like you're catering too much to that side, hurting hits from the lefties? Bill, I don't think you're a punk, man-up and tell me what keeps you from deleting me rather than just letting people take massive shots at me, trying to warn me off every time I even almost start to defend myself. Do it in open forum, I mean, everyone knows the moderation is arbitrary and capricious, I think everyone wants to know. You could be a dick and delete me and all this BS, but I am asking you to clarify this for the forum, I guarantee all would read. Explain why some people get away with murder, others can’t breathe. We all kinda know, so this is basically a rhetorical question, but just take the high road here.

[airtwardo 6]

Bill, what are you waiting for? I mean why haven't you already deleted me?

And no, I'm not complaining. And no, I'm not questioning.

Huh?!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[turtlespeed 212]

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Bill, what are you waiting for? I mean why haven't you already deleted me?

And no, I'm not complaining. And no, I'm not questioning.

Huh?!

Are you begging?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun