"We will be joining those who established Social Security, Medicare and now, tonight, health care for all Americans"

[tdog 0]

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"Bread and Circuses is the cancer of democracy, the fatal disease for which there is no cure. Democracy often works beautifully at first. But once a state extends the franchise to every warm body, be he producer or parasite, that day marks the beginning of the end of the state. For when the plebs discover that they can vote themselves bread and circuses without limit and that the productive members of the body politic cannot stop them, they will do so, until the state bleeds to death, or in its weakened condition the state succumbs to an invader--the barbarians enter Rome."

--Robert A. Heinlein

[Lucky... 0]

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"Bread and Circuses is the cancer of democracy, the fatal disease for which there is no cure. Democracy often works beautifully at first. But once a state extends the franchise to every warm body, be he producer or parasite, that day marks the beginning of the end of the state. For when the plebs discover that they can vote themselves bread and circuses without limit and that the productive members of the body politic cannot stop them, they will do so, until the state bleeds to death, or in its weakened condition the state succumbs to an invader--the barbarians enter Rome."

--Robert A. Heinlein

Hysterical considering the Republitards of Reagan, Bush, Bush had the debt run up >8T combined, or 2/3 of the debt that this nation has had since before we were a nation. And if you look at the spill-over, IOW's the debt accrued while trying to tame the hyper-debt accumulation from Reagan and GWB, they are responsible for > 2/3 of teh US total debt. Yet you want to post some crap about parasites? As long as you ignore the fiscal mess that your party (now you'll try to call yourself a Libertarian as if there is a difference) has brought this country down under. Repubs aren't stupid, just bad at math.

[billvon 2,476]

>Repubs aren't stupid, just bad at math.

I thought they were tards (slang for retarded.) Which is it?

[Lucky... 0]

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>Repubs aren't stupid, just bad at math.

I thought they were tards (slang for retarded.) Which is it?

I knew you or someone would catch me on that . I knew it as I was typing. OK, you won, they are tards . Man I'm fucking walking on air tonight, and all that BS about the Dems on the way down has just been debunked. Those 2 or 3 gov seats and the bigger Kennedy seat win being a change of direction of the pendulum is now slammed and the pendulum is soaring the Dems way. They may even hold or gain seats if Obama keeps winning issues. Senate to come, but that s/b a rubbe rstamp considering this is their bill.

[1969912 0]

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Man I'm fucking walking on air tonight.....

This might help: http://www.us.depend.com/male/

But save some for November...

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[Lucky... 0]

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Man I'm fucking walking on air tonight.....

This might help: http://www.us.depend.com/male/

But save some for November...

Basically, yea. I'm shitting myself with glee. I know it might be years before we see all of the assets of this bill/law, but it's the first real token of having my party win the election 3 times in a row. The economic recovery is great, but this is diff cause it's an issue rather than a state of being as the economy is.

[FallingOsh 0]

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Man I'm fucking walking on air tonight.....

This might help: http://www.us.depend.com/male/

But save some for November...

Basically, yea. I'm shitting myself with glee. I know it might be years before we see all of the assets of this bill/law, but it's the first real token of having my party win the election 3 times in a row. The economic recovery is great, but this is diff cause it's an issue rather than a state of being as the economy is.

You are so separated from reality, it's sad.

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Stay positive and love your life.

[Lucky... 0]

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Man I'm fucking walking on air tonight.....

This might help: http://www.us.depend.com/male/

But save some for November...

Basically, yea. I'm shitting myself with glee. I know it might be years before we see all of the assets of this bill/law, but it's the first real token of having my party win the election 3 times in a row. The economic recovery is great, but this is diff cause it's an issue rather than a state of being as the economy is.

You are so separated from reality, it's sad.

It's fun to watch you and your side bitter. I wore that hat for 8 f'n years - seemed longer.

[diablopilot 2]

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"Bread and Circuses is the cancer of democracy, the fatal disease for which there is no cure. Democracy often works beautifully at first. But once a state extends the franchise to every warm body, be he producer or parasite, that day marks the beginning of the end of the state. For when the plebs discover that they can vote themselves bread and circuses without limit and that the productive members of the body politic cannot stop them, they will do so, until the state bleeds to death, or in its weakened condition the state succumbs to an invader--the barbarians enter Rome."

--Robert A. Heinlein

One of my favorites.

Did they really compare themselves to the creators of Social Security, and not even mention the fact that they are the ones that have brought its demise?

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Lucky... 0]

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"Bread and Circuses is the cancer of democracy, the fatal disease for which there is no cure. Democracy often works beautifully at first. But once a state extends the franchise to every warm body, be he producer or parasite, that day marks the beginning of the end of the state. For when the plebs discover that they can vote themselves bread and circuses without limit and that the productive members of the body politic cannot stop them, they will do so, until the state bleeds to death, or in its weakened condition the state succumbs to an invader--the barbarians enter Rome."

--Robert A. Heinlein

One of my favorites.

Did they really compare themselves to the creators of Social Security, and not even mention the fact that they are the ones that have brought its demise?

Sure, it's transitional:

- SS
- 1938 Fair Labor Standards Act
- 1964 Civil Rts Act
- Medicare
- HC Overhaul

Yea, just another cog in the anti-Republican agenda to keep people down.

[riddler 0]

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the barbarians enter Rome

Rome, as the global dominant power (at least from what they knew of the globe), lasted 1,000 years, 500 years in a democracy, 500 years in a quasi-representative dictatorship.

The U.S., as the global dominant power, has only been that way for about 65 years, and only 200 years in the existence of our current constitution. If we can do as well as the Romans for longevity, we will be doing really, really good.

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[kallend 1,683]

The USA has finally joined other civilized nations in caring for its citizens.

How many states or other nations that have embraced universal healthcare have decided it was a bad idea and reversed it?

I'm sorry that a public option was not part of it.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[tdog 0]

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If we can do as well as the Romans for longevity, we will be doing really, really good.

I am just crossing my fingers we do... Although, we are now moving much quicker as a global economy.

Argentina was the 10th richest world economy around 1910. It sunk very quickly over the next 100 years. Some of their economic policies, including public pension programs, helped with that downfall... We are not moving at the speed of "Rome" anymore...

[tdog 0]

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How many states or other nations that have embraced universal healthcare have decided it was a bad idea and reversed it?

The most liberal/democratic/socialist/left/whatever you call it person I know, who is a canadian citizen, who lives permanantly in France, had to buy airfare to the USA, to visit her doctor, for an EYE INFECTION, because her Paris France doctor said 2 weeks before she could get an appointment and her Canadan doctor said about the same...

It was nice because I got to see her, but I am sure she did not like the $1000 airfare bill to see a doctor in the states. She said the pain was very bad and was worth the money.

I am all for reform... This one is not the one we needed... Let's not model our healthcare on failed systems of other countries.

[rehmwa 2]

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"Bread and Circuses is the cancer of democracy, the fatal disease for which there is no cure. Democracy often works beautifully at first. But once a state extends the franchise to every warm body, be he producer or parasite, that day marks the beginning of the end of the state. For when the plebs discover that they can vote themselves bread and circuses without limit and that the productive members of the body politic cannot stop them, they will do so, until the state bleeds to death, or in its weakened condition the state succumbs to an invader--the barbarians enter Rome."

--Robert A. Heinlein

Hysterical considering the Republitards of Reagan, Bush, Bush

Where in Heinlein's quote does he mention "Republicans" or "Democrats"? I must have missed that.

Apparently you think Bread and Circuses without limit are a good thing?

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[champu 1]

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How many states or other nations that have embraced universal healthcare have decided it was a bad idea and reversed it?

The last three words of that sentence are really my only concern with the current healthcare legislation, but it's a fairly big one. Otherwise, day-to-day and month-to-month it's passage shouldn't have a significant effect on me.

One of the first things people always seem to bring up when someone raises a concern about social program spending is military spending (I guess for some people it's a requirement that you have to be blindly and adamantly for at least one or the other.) Well, and I've said this before, I agree the military needs serious fat trimmed out of it. Unfortunately, doing so is made difficult because every project seems to be some loud and obnoxious person's pet project. If, some stretch down the road, this healthcare program grows untenable, how likely is it to receive appropriate revisions to get it back under control?

[kallend 1,683]

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How many states or other nations that have embraced universal healthcare have decided it was a bad idea and reversed it?

The last three words of that sentence are really my only concern with the current healthcare legislation, but it's a fairly big one. Otherwise, day-to-day and month-to-month it's passage shouldn't have a significant effect on me.

One of the first things people always seem to bring up when someone raises a concern about social program spending is military spending (I guess for some people it's a requirement that you have to be blindly and adamantly for at least one or the other.) Well, and I've said this before, I agree the military needs serious fat trimmed out of it. Unfortunately, doing so is made difficult because every project seems to be some loud and obnoxious person's pet project. If, some stretch down the road, this healthcare program grows untenable, how likely is it to receive appropriate revisions to get it back under control?

Reversal of programs happens - public transportation in the UK, for example, was privatized.

However, I am not aware of ANY nation that has chosen to reverse a universal healthcare program. Neither has Hawaii or Mass, regardless of the issues their programs may have.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kelpdiver 2]

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[ the pendulum is now slammed and the pendulum is soaring the Dems way. They may even hold or gain seats if Obama keeps winning issues.

Uh, this is quite premature. I think a huge range of possible outcomes for November, ranging from status quo to the GOP taking over the House. Just look at the upset people on both sides of the abortion issue - Obama threw NOW over the side of the boat and how they respond could be pivotal for the election. The protests we'll see this week may be less telling - Tea Party types are voting GOP anyway.

[kallend 1,683]

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"Bread and Circuses is the cancer of democracy, the fatal disease for which there is no cure. Democracy often works beautifully at first. But once a state extends the franchise to every warm body, be he producer or parasite, that day marks the beginning of the end of the state. For when the plebs discover that they can vote themselves bread and circuses without limit and that the productive members of the body politic cannot stop them, they will do so, until the state bleeds to death, or in its weakened condition the state succumbs to an invader--the barbarians enter Rome."

--Robert A. Heinlein

Hysterical considering the Republitards of Reagan, Bush, Bush

Where in Heinlein's quote does he mention "Republicans" or "Democrats"? I must have missed that.

Apparently you think Bread and Circuses without limit are a good thing?

People use Heinlein's quote as if it was inspired by a direct communication from Zeus or the FSM. It wasn't.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Reversal of programs happens - public transportation in the UK, for example, was privatized.

However, I am not aware of ANY nation that has chosen to reverse a universal healthcare program. Neither has Hawaii or Mass, regardless of the issues their programs may have.

I look at the history of stem cell research support in particular. And with this legislation largely taking effect in the future, it does seem vulnerable to mass alteration if the GOP were to win the WH in 2012, along with the legislative bodies. Wonder if the Democrats would finally discover the fillibuster then.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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The USA has finally joined other civilized nations in caring for its citizens.

Nope.

We passed a law which says people have to buy insurance from for-profit insurance companies who can charge what they want with a maximum 3:1 price difference based on age, unless that gets to be too much and they pay a fine instead.

Other civilized countries' governments provide health health insurance as a not-for-profit government plan without premiums.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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Other civilized countries' governments provide health health insurance as a not-for-profit government plan without premiums.

Obviously I can not speak for all governments, but health care in Canada is not free. There are a number of provinces which force their residents to pay premiums for health care. Now the premiums are not as expensive as US health care insurance, but nevertheless the government does force some people to pay on top of the high taxes we already pay. Of course a country like Canada is in the middle when it comes to fees and taxation. We pay way more taxes than Americans pay, but less than what Europeans pay. Health care in Canada is good when you break your leg (if you don't mind sitting in the Emergency room for 4-12 hours) since the doctors will patch you up and send you on your way with little questions asked about who will pay for this. But it is not working for more serious illnesses and medical conditions where some people are on waiting lists that could last months (sometimes years). But now look at Europe ... think things are all bliss in socialist Europe right? Well I guess that depends on what part of Europe you are in. I have a friend who lives in Spain and they tell me health care in Spain is in deep trouble.

Finally, I don't know everything that is in this new health care bill Obama has slammed through. But if I am not mistaken, there is one thing that is in the bill which was needed and that was a provision to prevent the US insurance companies from denying people coverage due to pre-existing medical conditions. This is one thing that always puzzled me about the US system. What's the point of even having a health care system if the system can discriminate against people who are sick and need medical attention.

I don't know ... the US needs some major reform on how it spends money. Obama has no interest in cutting down the size of government, he only wants to exponentially increase government spending. Looks like the Canadian Loonie will surpass the US Greenback in value as the US goes deeper and deeper into uncontrolled debt. The world is going to be a very different place from what it has been in the last few years. We better all learn how to speak and read Chinese because the future of this world is not America's.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[kallend 1,683]

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The USA has finally joined other civilized nations in caring for its citizens.

Nope.

We passed a law which says people have to buy insurance from for-profit insurance companies who can charge what they want with a maximum 3:1 price difference based on age, unless that gets to be too much and they pay a fine instead.

Other civilized countries' governments provide health health insurance as a not-for-profit government plan without premiums.

Well, we have to keep those multi $million bonuses coming for the health insurance CEOs. How else would they keep food on the table for their families? (The Blue Cross of Illinois CEO just paid himself a $16 Million BONUS). www.chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/article.pl?articleId=33126

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rehmwa 2]

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People use Heinlein's quote as if it was inspired by a direct communication from Zeus or the FSM. It wasn't.

certainly, it's not like Heinlein, or Zeus, or the FSM is Chuck Norris or anything

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[billvon 2,476]

"The dual scourge of hunger and malnutrition will be truly vanquished not only when granaries are full, but also when people's basic health needs are met and women are given their rightful role in societies."

-Gro. Brundtland