revisiting 911 truth in the Obama days...

[rhys 0]

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All that work to bring down a building 436 feet tall and you want me to beleive 3 much larger buildings were wired for detonation and no one noticed? Please.

You obvoiusly have not researched this and take the event as it was told to you.

There are many accounts of suspicious behavior in the buildings prior to 911.

The whole building had a power down for a whole weekend to........

.....install internet cables?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqSpL-NUzuc

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[rhys 0]

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Tower 7 did indeed collapse from the bottom due to extensive damage caused by the previous collapses. There was particularly extensive damage to the south west corner. External force indeed.

A great video explaining the WTC Building 7 collapse

Where is the gaping hole mentioned in your link the a section of the building from the 10 floor to the ground had 25% of the building scooped out? where is the evidence of this?

The damage to WTC7 was minor compared to WTC3, WTC4, WTC5 and WTC6. shown clearly in this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEuJimaumW4&feature=related

They had to be 'Pulled' by the demolition crew.

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I watched the interview of Barry Jennings and it appears, IMO, he is confusing the collapse of the North Tower with what he thinks is an explosion.

He was stuck in that building for hours, he was at ground zero and was management of the building.

Your opinion of him being confused is pure speculation on your part. He had plenty of time afterward to think it over before he had interviews with various independent investigators.

His job was threatened because he said what he saw that day, Why it was his job he was paid to do. He decided it was best for him to reveal what he saw, he is now dead.

He died suspiciously only days before the most recent NIST report came out with any information whatsoever on WTC7, it was not even mentioned in the repert until years afterwards, Why?

Don't you think it is strange that, this building with so much important information in it did not even get a mention in the origional 911 Commission report?

I am going to research his death and see what I can find, but why would such a key witness die suspiciously? There were dead bodies in WTC7 before either of the north or south tower collapsed!!??!?

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[rhys 0]

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Sounds more like they wish to participate in the American tradition of grandstanding. Otherwise, they could submit that 'evidence' now, not wait 6 months for the memorial date.

I can only imagine the amount of time and work the AE911truth guys are putting into this, I will be in San Fran. in a couple of months (IFly wind tunnel ) so I will go and visit them there to learn more off them.

They have set this date for themselves, up until august 2008 the 911 commission didn't even mention WTC7 but now it does, thay have more work do and time to spend.

Remember these guys have careers (Architects, Engineers, and Scientists) as well, this is done in their own time and with minimal finacial help.

They have set this timeline for themselves and neither you or i can speculate why they have set this day in particular for there actions. i assume it has to do with politics and them being ready to have a presentation that proves 'Beyond reasonable doubt' thier conclusions.

If there is anything that is sure about the official investigation so far is that the is plenty of doubt.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[SpeedRacer 1]

you are sounding more & more like chuteless.



here's a physics paper examining the collapse of the towers:http://www.911myths.com/WTCREPORT.pdf

Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------

[billvon 2,435]

>an objecy falling through air is about as minimal as you can possibly get
>in the lower atmosphere.

For a skydiver you don't seem to know much about drag! That "minimal" force generates hundreds of pounds on your typical skydiver. If you call hundreds of pounds "minimal" - well, that might explain your confusion over the basic forces involved.

[airdvr 200]

Just for the record...

1. Did we land on the moon?

2. Was JFK killed by a lone gunmen?

3. Do we have an alien spaceship in New Mexico?

4. Does KFC make black men impotent?

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[sundevil777 94]

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Very simple physics being completely ingored.

I don't think you know physics well enough to even know when it is simple or when it supports your conclusions. What is "freefall speed"?

I think a very important point to consider - It seems to me for the conspiracy theory to be correct, the political opponents of the Bush administration must have been willing to ignore the conspiracy, or else they were also a part of the conspiracy, as supposedly the evidence has been presented for all to see. So, do you accept that?

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[rhys 0]

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here's a physics paper examining the collapse of the towers:http://www.911myths.com/WTCREPORT.pdf

i scrolled down and found nothing whatsoever on tower 7.

This tells me you have not read this thread.

I am not a physicist and have never claimed to be, however, the inofrmation I have studied in detail is comiled by them.

You may think I have watched loose change 1 time and base all my theoris on that but this in not the case

This discussion is about the symmetrical colapse of WTC7 and why there were dead bodies in that building before either of the other towers colloapsed, the key witness to this is now dead (suspiciously) and his comments have been ignored by the commission.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[rhys 0]

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For a skydiver you don't seem to know much about drag! That "minimal" force generates hundreds of pounds on your typical skydiver. If you call hundreds of pounds "minimal" - well, that might explain your confusion over the basic forces involved.

You are pretty good at avoiding the discussion and sticking to an irelivant point Bill.

Yes the is drag in the atmophere, we don't live in a vacum, things do take time to fall, and the building took the time it did to fall because of these factors.

i agree with you on the drag but what i don't agree is that the building could fall symetrically in that time without explosives.

If sections of a steel grid fail due to heat. The pressure would move to the area of least resistance which would result in an asymetrical failure, and sections of the building would survive due to its massive amount of strength.

if buldings came down like that, epecially ones with extremey reinforced bunkers (NY mayors bunker) and had the CIA and other important govornment offices.

Then why would demolition crews bother with such intricate explosive devices when demolishing a building in an ordanary circumstance. they could just pour some diesel on the floor and let it burn for a couple of hours.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[rhys 0]

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I don't think you know physics well enough to even know when it is simple or when it supports your conclusions. What is "freefall speed"?

I think a very important point to consider - It seems to me for the conspiracy theory to be correct, the political opponents of the Bush administration must have been willing to ignore the conspiracy, or else they were also a part of the conspiracy, as supposedly the evidence has been presented for all to see. So, do you accept that?

They need votes, if they brought the 911 cospiracy into the election, they would have failed miserably.

America is too paranoid to accept any such things.

This has to be dealt with very carefully indeed.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[billvon 2,435]

> why there were dead bodies in that building before either of the other
>towers colloapsed . . .

Because when two fully fueled and loaded 767's doing 500mph run into buildings hundreds of feet above the ground, stuff falls out of those buildings.

Do an experiment. Have someone drop a few tons of concrete, steel, glass and aluminum onto a house from only 50 feet in the air. Have perhaps 20 people in the house. See how many dead bodies result. Then ask yourself is this a secret conspiracy created by George Bush, or is it the result of dropping tons of concrete, steel, glass and aluminum onto a house? Also ask yourself - if it had been dropped from a few hundred feet, and they were burning as they fell, would it have been worse?

[rhys 0]

1. Did we land on the moon? As far as I am aware, I have no real reason to think they did not at this stage. I watched the movie on it, pondered the thought as it was as much a cold war thing than a science thing. you have to have an open mind on these kind of things. but at this stage yes i do belive they landed on the moon.

2. Was JFK killed by a lone gunmen? Trick question, he was killed by a lone guman but it is much more complicated than that. Have you ever watched 11 lessons in the life of Robert Macmamara?

if so you'll know what I mean.



3. Do we have an Alien spaceship in New Mexico?

I would think not, but could not know for sure. What you should have in New Mexico however, is the entire remains of the WTC1, WTC2 and WTC7 for a thourough investigation.

4. Does KFC make black men impotent?

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[rhys 0]

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[billvon 2,435]

>You are pretty good at avoiding the discussion and sticking to an irelivant
>point Bill.

And you are pretty good at completely missing the point.

>The pressure would move to the area of least resistance which
>would result in an asymetrical failure

?? The north tower collapsed towards the center, then began to tilt. The south tower did collapse asymmetrically from the get-go. It's clearly visible in the video records; it collapses to the south.

Might be time for another revision to your claims.

>Then why would demolition crews bother with such intricate explosive
>devices when demolishing a building in an ordanary circumstance. they
>could just pour some diesel on the floor and let it burn for a couple of
>hours.

Well, and drop a few tons of concrete and steel on it from 500 feet up. That might do it. Or they could just fly a fully fueled 767 into it. But it's cheaper to blow it up with explosives.

[rhys 0]

I can't be bothered with this discussion now at this stage, I have 50 jumps to do this week and the conversation is going around in circles.

Lets just wait to see what heppens, I may add more information once i have bee to San Fran to meet the AE911truth guys.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[billvon 2,435]

>As far as I am aware, I have no real reason to think they did not at this stage.

But TOP SCIENTISTS AND ENGINEERS claim we didn't!

>What you should have in New Mexico however, is the entire remains
>of the WTC1, WTC2 and WTC7 for a thourough investigation.

We would also have the lunar lander there if the government really wanted to prove that we landed on the Moon. But clearly they don't. And since TOP SCIENTISTS AND ENGINEERS claim we didn't, well, who are you to argue?

[kelpdiver 2]

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4. Does KFC make black men impotent?

I hadn't heard this one before, but perhaps just because I don't like (very often) fried chicken, or chicken skin at all.

[kelpdiver 2]

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here's a physics paper examining the collapse of the towers:http://www.911myths.com/WTCREPORT.pdf

i scrolled down and found nothing whatsoever on tower 7.

This tells me you have not read this thread.

Again, the problem is that if Tower 7 was blown up, then the conspiracy has to also cover the main towers, yet the claims for those two have all fallen lame.

[sundevil777 94]

What do you mean by "freefall speed"?

The 2 towers did not fall symmetrically. It certainly could have been even more asymmetric, but it was not even close to what I'd call symmetric.

I find it silly to say that a building collapsed just like during a planned demolition. How often do we ever get to see a building collapse otherwise? No basis to compare against.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[rhys 0]

I just can't help myself i have to reply

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: >As far as I am aware, I have no real reason to think they did not at this stage.

But TOP SCIENTISTS AND ENGINEERS claim we didn't!

I don't care if they landed on the moon or not really, it does not interest me enough, so I have not looked into it. Therefore I take what I have been told as a child by school and popular culture, as what happened.

I have looked a little into JFK, Vietnam and Cuba... though as I am interested in it and believe has alot to do with our worlds most prominant problems.

I'll use a point from that that puts this whole thing into perspective.

Most Americans do not realise just how close the USA became to being wiped off the map by the Soviets back then. The superpowers (on all different sides) really learned their lessons in that one.

Was the USA aware of that? No they were told there were missile silos there and the weapons were on their ways so the consensus was to attack Cuba, from US the people and the US military.

The reality is they didn’t know what was there and the silos were ful of nuclear weapons aimed at and in range of the USA, if one little US rocket or bomb went to Cuba, USSR would have unleashed its Nuclear might and they/we all came from a hairs breath of that actually happening. The soviets freaked out and basically gave the USA the choice via two different messages sent about the same time. One stern and forceful and another diplomaic and peaceful.

No one wants to die, well almost no one, and they all decided to tell thier own people (both sides) that they won, then they all looked like heros (votes, votes, votes) for stopping a potential war that would change life on the entire plannet.

Watch, ‘11 lessons in the life of Robert McNamara’ to find out if you don’t know about that and are interested. The words are from McNamaras mouth personally.

The point is though; If you do know about these things and can fathom them, It just goes to show that the people, irregardeless if which country, creed, class or belief will say what other people want to hear and hide the truth if it is convenient for them.

As much as most of you guys may not believe in any sort of conspiracy theories, you will be well aware of the demand of our own human nature and how it effects; us all personally emotionally, our daily lives and what we want out of life and what we can achieve.

When I was a child I always wanted a new Skateboard and would be as happy as could be, if I got one. In my teens I wanted a car....snowboarding...parachutes, wind tunnels.....own dropzone.....

We are never satisfied no matter how much we try; this is true for every human being on this planet regardless of our individual decision to do good things or evil things or our interpretation of what that might mean to us.

There is a guy buying an airbus A380 for his own personal use. He is an oil tycoon from the Middle East. This is one of his toys, just imagine the type of money and power he must have, and the influence he may have over people. An airbus A380 for personal use!!!??? What type car does he drive, how big would his house be??? Envy, envy (not that I have values like that, but just making a point) .....

People die, for others to get that type of money. That type of money will bring more power and persuasion and even more money that we, mare peasants (when we are talking on that scale), can ever comprehend.

Given human nature and the scale of what it is possible for people to achieve and the addictive nature of these control freaks and ultra rich, how can the prospect of a conspiracy of this scale be so audacious?



I don’t ignore what any of you have to say, and wish any of you could prove to me beyond doubt, that this was not covered up in some sort of way to hide the Awful truth. Religion is the same, how easy would life be if the meaning was as easy as we have been told, and everything we were told were true.


It is easy to jump to conclusions but things are not always as they seem, I have learnt this valuable lesson a few times the hard way, so will never blame anyone in particular for this until it is proven beyond reasonable doubt.

Nobody should.


That is yet to happen. An invesigation that ommits vital information and evidence is not a bonafide investigation.

GW bush shouldn’t have ever been president but he/they somehow managed to swindle his way in, as much as he cheated, around half of America believed in his unbelievable stupidity and even though he did not have the skills to run a successful business or hold a job let alone a conversation, he was allowed to have one of the most extreme powers available in the world.

GW Bush is too much of an idiot to pull something like this off, his family however is not so stupid, and their friends are rather affluent indeed ( a huge understatement). It takes many people getting many millions of dollars to pull this sort of shit off; they have done so many times before and will continue to do so until people (in general) stop being brainwashed sheep and start thinking for themselves.

only then will common sence prevail.

Peace,

Rhys

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[philh 0]

You say Barry Jennins deis of mysterious circumstances, do you have any evidence for this or is that in a hanger in New Mexico too?

[rhys 0]

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You say Barry Jennins deis of mysterious circumstances, do you have any evidence for this or is that in a hanger in New Mexico too?

http://www.groundreport.com/US/Barry-Jennings-Key-9-11-Witness-Dies

A story from the other side of the fence than me. Just to confirm it is not only the truthers that are saying this and that he is infact dead.

Why is the cause of death undisclosed?

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[philh 0]

What do you mean the cause of death was undisclosed?
Do you mean the conspioracy web sites havent disclosed it? in which case, so what,? maybe the real cause of death is something natural and so doesnt support their case? Perhpas thats why he was int he hospital when he died.
Do you have any actual evidence that there's anything suspicious about this death other than the fact the conspiracy nuts put the word "mysterious" in front of it?

[jakee 1,259]

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Then why would demolition crews bother with such intricate explosive devices when demolishing a building in an ordanary circumstance. they could just pour some diesel on the floor and let it burn for a couple of hours.

No-one, any where, at any time has ever suggested that fire alone bought down any of the buildings which collapsed on 9-11.

This pathetic, transparent strawman bullshit is why no-one with half a functioning braincell takes your conspiracy theories seriously.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rhys 0]

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No-one, any where, at any time has ever suggested that fire alone bought down any of the buildings which collapsed on 9-11.

This pathetic, transparent strawman bullshit is why no-one with half a functioning braincell takes your conspiracy theories seriously.

OK maybe they can get a ball and chain and smash a few random holes first and then light a fire.



Making abuilding fall like that is very difficult indeed.

"pull it, it think we should pull it, the safest thing to do is pull it" words from firemen, the owner of the building and the mayor of New York.

Do some reserch.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix