revisiting 911 truth in the Obama days...

[rhys 0]

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[EXTremeWade 0]

Thanks for the reply man. Its is a sad day to see so many people on this thread defend such an already cloudy subject turing towards what you and I both are getting at, as well as personell in engineering with multiple PhD's in the field of science, and man..this thing had better get the exposure...I cant seem to get this video to work, at work for me but I am going to look at it again when I get home.

[MikeForsythe 0]

You seem to have forgotten what you posted. You stated that ALL evidence was destroyed (FALSE) and that the buildings were shipped to China. This too is false as a lot of the steel was used here in America. The USS New York was just one example.

Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

[jakee 1,260]

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Lastly, and I will be finished with what I have come to agree on, is what about the Pentagon? Is there NO footage of any other camera in such a secure, and dense military area of a fuckin’ 747 over head heading b-line to the Pentagon?!!!

Why would there be? No 747s were hijacked.

Mate, if that's the depth of your fuckin' research then no wonder you're finding it difficult to convince anyone

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rhys 0]

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You stated that ALL evidence was destroyed (FALSE) and that the buildings were shipped to China. This too is false as a lot of the steel was used here in America. The USS New York was just one example.

I stand corrected, I should have written most of the evidence was shipped away.

china happily took 500,000 tons of the steel and the uss new York used 24 tons.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[philh 0]

"I am not going to get into nitty gritties of theories, but to answer your question, I can't say for sure the Bush administration wass behind the collapses, maybe though you should ask why the chose people that are still alive as the people they claim to have hijacked the planes? "

Perhpas what you mean is you have no answer to my question but that doesnt matter as you are married to your conclusion.?
You say the hijackers are still alive, is it possible that persons of the same name are still allive instead? Look in the phone book of any country you will see several people of the same name.
For example, in the film Loose Change they claim Said al Ghamdi and walid al Shari were still alive. Der speigl investigated this claim and found it to be a case of mistaken identity, the hujackers were very much dead.
a quick lok at wikipedia might help:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saeed_al-Ghamdi

I read the letter you posted by the FBI , if thats what you think is good evidence you are really clutching at straws. Nowhere in the letter do they endorse a single conspiracy claim.

You say you want to keep the discussion scientific , ok so show me some respectable peer reviewed journals that back the views of conspiracy theoriests.

[chuckakers 370]

What's that sound? Oh yes, I recognize it. It's the theme from The Twilight Zone!

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[billvon 2,435]

>I stand corrected, I should have written most of the evidence was shipped away.

So you are changing your story? Applying the standards you use for others to yourself, nothing you say can be trusted, since it's been shown that you change your story when confronted with indisputable facts!

[downwardspiral 0]

In all seriousness...Thank you for your respectful reply.

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will you eat your hat if I am right?

Right about what exactly? That WTC7 was brought down by explosives? Sure I'll eat my hat if that's the case. The problem with that theory is your evidence of freefall speeds, which I do not dispute, is not evidence of the cause. And this is what your entire theory is based upon.

Show me more evidence and I'll play but a letter from the FBI saying "we'll consider it" is not good enough.

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[BDashe 0]

Rhys-

say the whole thing you are proposing is true- would obama really go public with info like that? Just the fact that our government would be capable of pulling a stunt like that could create chaos here. Even if he were to go 'See? the repubs are the bad guys, but I'll never do it i swear' the fact would remain he still has the power to pull something off like that which would be a disaster for social order in the US.

It didn't happen buddy, there are jsut way too many hands that would be involved for any government to get away with something like that. Also, the great O will never prove you right, sorry

So there I was...

Making friends and playing nice since 1983

[kelpdiver 2]

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This subject is not about the conspiracy theories of who how or when, it is about the conclusions made from a very lengthy, extremely expensive NIST report that is now rendered incorrect by their recently released data.

The have officially agreed that tower 7 fell at free fall speed with a raipid onset, That is physically impossible without removing all resistance from the mass that is falling. what is the only way to make a building do that??

What it's about is you conspiracy nuts had your ass handed to you on the similar claims about the main towers, and now you've seized upon a perceived weakness in the docs on one of the minor buildings to claim that the whole deal is still on.

Why would the ore go to China? Because for the past decade, they've been the bigger buyer. Why might the price be lower? Because this isn't regular scrap, could be deemed tainted, and if you buy a shitload, you tend to get better pricing.

[nanook 1]

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Sounds like a blow off. "We thank you for putting in an effort,but we'll call you, dont call us."

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The FBI as well as the NIST cannot refute what actually happened, what actually happened is different to what NIST and the general media portrayed based on the information given by NIST.

So they got a letter?

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[rhys 0]

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So you are changing your story? Applying the standards you use for others to yourself, nothing you say can be trusted, since it's been shown that you change your story when confronted with indisputable facts!

For fucks sake bill,
I made a mistake, and I acknowledged it.
By that rationale because I made a typing mistake, all the engineers and architects at ae911truths research is now rendered useless?
Maybe this mindset is behind the large amount of disbelief in what actually happened that day.
I know your thoughts on the matter and you stand behind a pancake collapse of the building/s that NIST compiled.
My question to you now NIST have released the data on the collapse of building 7, that has shown free fall speed from the rapid onset of momentum of the building when it fell down...
... How is that possible without explosives?
Pancake collapses take massive amounts of energy transfers between each floor and would slow the fall rate considerably.
When we last discussed this you said the speed was not that of absolute freefall, yet NIST have since admitted it was without explaining how?
‘You’ also have to correct your theories with this new information.
Applying the standards you use for others to yourself, nothing you say can be trusted, since it's been shown that you change your story when confronted with indisputable facts!

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No I corrected myself and presented the facts.
Remember I am a tandem instructor not an engineer that has been paid many millions of dollars to conduct an investigation on a terrorist attack that has changed the shape of global policies and killed so many people, directly and indirectly. This investigation is of utmost national and international importance and is being handled like it is not.
I hope NIST's change of face has you thinking, if not that will happen in September or soon after, because I know you are a rational person, you have just been fed bullshit that sounds believable.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[DJL 232]

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I have one question for 911 "truthers" ; if the Bush government was behind 9/11 why didnt they put some Iraqis on the planes?

wow - with a single clear question, you pop the air out of the conspiracy balloon.

Any conspiracy so well executed that hundreds of people don't leak how they rigged buildings to explode and kill thousands...certainly would have been competent enough to put the right fall guys on the planes.

No. That's exactly what they were expecting.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[rhys 0]

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In all seriousness...Thank you for your respectful reply. [Smile]

No worries, I am over getting frustrated on this issue, i am just happy knowing there are plenty of honorable people on the case and that i am contributing to thier effort.

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Right about what exactly? That WTC7 was brought down by explosives? Sure I'll eat my hat if that's the case. The problem with that theory is your evidence of freefall speeds, which I do not dispute,

The maybe you can explain how this is possible without explosives? NIST have not, no body has, untill recently freefall speed had been denied. NIST's computer simulation shows a completely differnts slow collapse when the actual collapse was as if the earht had been taken away from beneath the building.

Quite astounding.

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is not evidence of the cause. And this is what your entire theory is based upon.

There are numerous threads on this site, websites on the net and discussions we have both had with each other and other people.

I do not want to cloud this thread with the same information and bullshit responsed that come from angry naysayers.

I want to focus on NIST and thier faliure to produce a report that acurately describes what happened on that day.

I am not going into theories in this thread as this was not my job it was NIST's job as wellas a couple of others.

Theories cannot accurately be made witout real iformation, if that information is skewed than so it the theory made from that information.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[Remster 24]

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NIST's computer simulation shows a completely differnts slow collapse when the actual collapse was as if the earht had been taken away from beneath the building.

Some guy a while back at an interesting quote about simulations and models.

Remster

[rhys 0]

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Rhys-

say the whole thing you are proposing is true- would obama really go public with info like that?

Not now no, like i said the USA public isnot ready for the truth just yet, Obama has stated that he will resore science to the govornment, he will take interest in this.

Now is not the right time, later this year is the time,

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Just the fact that our government would be capable of pulling a stunt like that could create chaos here.

No one is sure who pulled it off? they simply let it happpen regardless of who did it. How can a plane hit the pentagon witout the govornment being incompetent? I don't think the govornment alone is in on this, it seems it is simply damage control, spiraling way out of control. but we will ony know for sure what really happend once a real investigation actually happens which could be a decade from now?

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Even if he were to go 'See? the repubs are the bad guys, but I'll never do it i swear' the fact would remain he still has the power to pull something off like that which would be a disaster for social order in the US.

What the USA want to see is jusctice, if the truth unravels, the public will be stoked to have someone to blame, the dems will look like that good guys and the pubicans will look like the idiots that they were!

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It didn't happen buddy,

Based on what evidence?

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there are jsut way too many hands that would be involved for any government to get away with something like that

They never have got away with anything, since day 1 people have been on thier backs but somehow they seem to continue the lie, It is now in the hands of a few individuals that are qualified and passionate enough to unravel the truth.

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Also, the great O will never prove you right, sorry Unsure

nah but the AE911truth guys already have!

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[rhys 0]

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Some guy a while back at an interesting quote about simulations and models.

That is awesome, and quite appropriate.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[billvon 2,435]

>By that rationale because I made a typing mistake, all the engineers
>and architects at ae911truths research is now rendered useless?

By your logic - YES! You have admitted that you cannot substantiate your claim. And by your arguments, if you can't explain one thing, you can't explain anything, and there must be a coverup.

>My question to you now NIST have released the data on the collapse
>of building 7, that has shown free fall speed from the rapid onset of
>momentum of the building when it fell down...
>... How is that possible without explosives?

Same way a BASE jumper in a floppy jumpsuit can fall at freefall speeds without explosives. Gravity.

>I hope NIST's change of face has you thinking . . .

So since they have about-faced, what they say is bullshit. What does that say about your about-face?

> if not that will happen in September or soon after . . .

What will happen in September?

[rhys 0]

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So they got a letter?

So they got a letter?

Dated a month after the new presedent was elected, from the FBI assuring them that they are looking into it.

Who is the boss now?, the guys that gave the orders for the last 8 years or the guys that are drastically trying to fix the problems the last govornment created.

The FBI don't want to look like idiots as well. A cop will not dispute science with scientists, that would be a bad mistake. The assitant director of the FBI will not want to lose his well earned position covering for some other fuckwit that decided to make a dollar.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[SpeedRacer 1]

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Since no steel-framed buildings had ever collapsed due to fires,

what about that steel framed bridge that collapsed from the heat when the fuel truck under it burst into flames a few years back? We started a thread about this "impossible act of thermochemistry" and all of you tinfoil hatters were as quiet as church mice.

Here's the thread:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2806121;search_string=act%20of%20thermochemistry;#2806121

Speed Racer
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[rhys 0]

I didn't see that thread as i don't spend my entire life in these forums.

I would have to study that incident in more detail to make informed statements. I don't need to do that.

What you don't seem to 'get' is that the fires of 911 as much as they could 'possibly' have weakened metal, the resistance of the lower sections of the buildings would make it PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE for the entrire buildings to collapse at freefall speed.

They could fall, but not that fast.

Very simple physics being completely ingored.

I'm sure that the section of highway was also not built to withstand the impacts of multipule large passenger aircraft.

Now compare the fire of tower 7 to that of the mandarin hotel fire in china this year.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/10/world/asia/10beijing.html?hp

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[billvon 2,435]

>What you don't seem to 'get' is that the fires of 911 as much as they
>could 'possibly' have weakened metal, the resistance of the lower
>sections of the buildings would make it PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE for the
>entrire buildings to collapse at freefall speed.

It is PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE for a BASE jumper to fall at freefall speeds (ever hear of drag?) Yet they do it all the time, without explosives.

>I'm sure that the section of highway was also not built to withstand the
>impact of a large passenger aircraft.

It's built to withstand the impact of trucks. Unfortunately, in both cases, there was also a fire.

But anyway let's look at your claim here.

It is PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE for 24,000 gallons of burning fuel to weaken the structure of a glass, concrete and steel building to the point that it collapses, but is completely possible for 8600 gallons of fuel to melt an overpass made of concrete and steel, an overpass designed to carry multi-ton trucks and built to the highest seismic standards in the country?

It is tremendously suspicious that few aircraft remants were found after the impact, but not suspicious at all that the truck carrying the fuel was completely melted by the fire that (you claim) can't melt anything?

You have a problem thinking a building loaded as designed could collapse in a fire after serious structural damage, but have no problem thinking that a bridge that had been cleared of all traffic (i.e. zero load) and that had no damage could collapse in a fire?

I think you have a teeny problem with logic here.

[rhys 0]

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It is PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE for a BASE jumper to fall at freefall speeds (ever hear of drag?) Yet they do it all the time, without explosives.

Base jumpers tend to jump off the side of a building to freefall. where there is no resistance. If they try to fall through a suppot column or many layers of thich concrete they will not have very much sucess at all, I imagine i don't have to ellaborate on that.

I would like to answer all of your questions, but I will not be strayed away from the subject at hand, that is to remind you that NIST have admitted free fall speeds of tower7's collapse and that is impossible without explosives.

Your base jumper analogy is a joke Bill.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[billvon 2,435]

>where there is no resistance.

A beginner mistake! There would be no resistance on the moon if someone tried to jump there, but as all skydivers know, there IS air resistance here on the Earth. Yet BASE jumpers can still reach freefall speeds with a long enough delay - without any explosions!

>that is to remind you that NIST have admitted free fall speeds of tower7's
>collapse . . . .

Right. We knew that from the start.

>and that is impossible without explosives.

Skydivers and BASE jumpers do it all the time without explosives - even though they are being slowed down by air drag.

Your premise fails miserably.