Obama secretly ends program that let pilots carry guns

[rehmwa 2]

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>Right - those military guys spend all day weaving baskets.

I used to work at McClellan Air Force Base.

yeah, but you can't really equate Air Force with 'military'. Perhaps more like, bankers that wear uniforms, but get more sleep and have a more casual haircut than normal bankers.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[billvon 2,400]

> but you can't really equate Air Force with 'military'.

Fair enough, but they got the military discounts at the movies. (And something tells me that the 280lb Air Force guy is more likely to end up in a airliner cockpit than, say, a sharpshooter.)

[kelpdiver 2]

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>Right - those military guys spend all day weaving baskets.

I used to work at McClellan Air Force Base. And for some of the people on the base, weaving baskets would be an increase in activity for them. (Which they could use; they'd drop the extra 50 pounds they're carrying.)

It is the pilots, and in particular the combat pilots, that go on to become jetliner pilots. Not the support staff on the ground.

And even if Skydecker lacks any shooting knowledge, there's nothing incredibly different about combat training that makes their experience irrelevant in the front of a 747. It's not rocket science. Most of the claims made by gun control freaks are based on ignorance that don't last long with any actual firearm use.

The other experience the fighter pilots bring is their experience in life/death situations against an enemy. Now that the consequence of being hijacked has changed, their experience is quite relevant.

[billvon 2,400]

>there's nothing incredibly different about combat training that
>makes their experience irrelevant in the front of a 747.

I don't think that combat training should be a prerequisite to either flying a 747 or carrying a gun in the cockpit. Come up with a standardized test (either per airline or industry wide) let any pilot take it and let them carry the gun. If they do indeed have such training it should be a piece of cake.

[JohnRich 4]

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And finally, my last post in this thread (until this one) was two weeks ago, so I don't know why you're directing this comment to me.

Was simply commenting in a reply to the first post in the thread.
Carly Simon was right.

Then if you were making a general comment not attributed to a specific individual, you should have removed my name from the subject line. Or you should have replied to one of the people that was keeping the thread ongoing, since that's what you were talking about.

Responding to a message targeted directly at me, does not make me vain. Spare me your personal insults.

[JohnRich 4]

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>Right - those military guys spend all day weaving baskets.

A lot of people have a vision of the military as a group of warriors who spend their days rappelling out of helicopters, flying training missions and practicing with a sniper rifle. In reality a lot of people who work on military bases clean toilets, sweep the floors, pull boxes out of airplanes, carry gas cans and paint the walls over and over again. Many of them are great people, but aren't quite the image of the modern warrior.

Context, bill. We're talking about airline pilots, a large number of whom come from the military. People who sweep floors and paint walls aren't the people that get out of the military and become airline pilots. Those folks would be the ones who are pilots already, in the military. They parlay that military flying experience to become commercial pilots. Such pilots go through things like boot camp, weapons training and escape and evasion training. They are trained to remain calm and do the right thing when an aircraft malfunctions, or when being shot at. They are indeed people with a warrior mind set. They are trained to act in self defense in response to threats, not to surrender and give up their aircraft to the enemy.

[billvon 2,400]

>Such pilots go through things like boot camp, weapons training and
>escape and evasion training.

Again, that sounds great. But an Air Force pilot who flies KC-10 Extenders is going to be the most likely guy to get a job flying 767's - and they go pretty heavy on aircraft systems training and light on the weapons training. (At least the ones I knew.) Fortunately, that's the sort of experience that airlines want.

>They are trained to remain calm and do the right thing when an aircraft malfunctions . . .

??? So are all pilots. That's sort of a basic requirement for being a pilot.

But in any case, again, I don't think it matters. They want to carry a gun in the cockpit? Fine. Have them pass a competence test and let them do it. If they are really that well trained they will have no problems doing so.

[quade 3]

Pfft . . . for a Texan, the thinness of your skin truly is amazing.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[kelpdiver 2]

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Pfft . . . for a Texan, the thinness of your skin truly is amazing.

It seemed so, but you were quick to throw on some more gas.

[quade 3]

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Pfft . . . for a Texan, the thinness of your skin truly is amazing.

It seemed so, but you were quick to throw on some more gas.

I simply don't understand why he takes posts that are simply replies to the thread as a whole, personally. Even if his name does appear in brackets in the subject line. Who gives a shit? That's an automatic function of the web site. Pfft. Done with this one.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[rehmwa 2]

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> And something tells me that the 280lb Air Force guy is more likely to end up in a airliner cockpit than, say, a sharpshooter.)

yeah, but how can you get him out of the cockpit once you wedge him in there?

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[bigbearfng 9]

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>Doors fail all the time.

Hmm. Do you have any indications that the new reinforced doors have failed to stop someone who tried to get into the cockpit? We did some certification tests with an MD-80 a while back and they seemed to be pretty effective.

>Doors plus guns are much better than either by itself.

If you amended that to "doors plus guns plus a competent gun user" I'd agree.

Just curious the testing you mention-how new was that MD80? And was it tested in flight?

Reason being after having flown armed for work and having a chance to candidly talk to some pilots; those doors have been known to pop open on take off- whether because of older aircraft? Airframe flex only seen on take off?
Either way it was a quandry for them.....was that door rigged to open? Do I abort? Continue?
And yes doors plus a competent pilot with a weapon is preferable.
I trust the pilot to fly the plane safely, so I'll trust them with weapons also!

[billvon 2,400]

>Just curious the testing you mention-how new was that MD80? And was it
>tested in flight?

Don't know the age. It was tested in flight.

>I trust the pilot to fly the plane safely, so I'll trust them with
>weapons also!

I will also generally trust any pilot that meets the minimum qualifications for those two responsibilities. (With a few exceptions, of course.)