Do you think America is a "free" country

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Where's the "Who cares" option

We've got more than enough of our own problems to worry about.

Hey......... George Orwell warned you.

[tbrown 26]

Quote

Just wanted to see how many people think it's true. I personally think our Constitution is slowing going away What good is it if it is gone.

People have been pissing and moaning about the Constitution going away ever since the thing was signed. It's not a ticket to heaven and it's not like everyone walks around asking themselves if what they want is Constitutional or not. Hell, it not only allowed slavery, it counted Blacks as 2/3 of a person for the census, and actually had to be amended before women could vote in all fifty states.

What the Constitution DOES is give us a a framework to keep working, or struggling at the things we think are worthwhile. The Constitution may "guarantee" our freedoms, but that doesn't stop all kinds of people with agendas from running roughshod all over us. What the constution DOES do is to give us the means to fight back. It gives the President, congress, and courts the means to step in and impose limits when one or the other of them tries to grab too much power to themselves. Not to sound trite, but it is what we make of it - and gives us the means to go about trying.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[SivaGanesha 2]

Quote

Just wanted to see how many people think it's true. I personally think our Constitution is slowing going away What good is it if it is gone.

I think America is mostly free but there are a few areas--drugs and sex--where America as a country has a problem with what should be basic freedoms. America is mostly free but when America decides to go against its better judgment and restrict freedoms, she can be very harsh in doing so. Possession of drugs which might be illegal in many countries will tend to be punished especially hard in the USA.

"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Quote

GMO's are genetically modified organisms.

Damn. I thought it was Government Mandated Orgasms.

That would finally be the complete downfall of the GOP..... since most of them are incapable of knowing what those are( well except for the rather large closeted Log Cabin types)...let alone having any.

[shropshire 0]

Quote

Quote

Where's the "Who cares" option

We've got more than enough of our own problems to worry about.

Hey......... George Orwell warned you.

Yeap - I should have taken more notes at school


On the other hand it was good ol' George OilWell that did for yous.... wonder what he's doing these days?

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[cliffwhite 0]

>I would think that freemen would be entitled to keep their personal
>property.

***Not if freemen want to mount a coordinated defense from other freemen who would take their personal property.***
__________________________________________________
The key word hear is "want". If I want to contribute my property to a common defence fund thats my right. When my personal property is taken from me at the point of a gun or by threat of incarceration certainly no one can argue that is freedom.
__________________________________________________

> The sad truth is that the US government regularly demands that we turn
>over our personal property without due compensation.

*** Yep. They are called "taxes." Fortunately, you regularly have the opportunity to vote people into office who will disband the military, shut down the freeways, fire all the firemen, police and teachers the government employs, and then resign their positions. If enough people agree with you, that will happen. If not - welcome to democracy.***
__________________________________________________
Exactly !! As long as our Rights are subject to the whims of other men we are not Free in America.
Here is a portion of the 5th amendment ,Bill. You may not be aware of it's meaning although it is rather straight forward and in simple language ;" nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."
As long as our Rights are denied us by armed government agents, Americans are not free .

Blues.
Cliff

2muchTruth

[Capt.Slog 0]

Quote

Quote

What freedoms would you be looking for if you've said we are not free?

I would think that freemen would be entitled to keep their personal property.The sad truth is that the US government regularly demands that we turn over our personal property without due compensation.

Blues,
Cliff

The only personal property of mine ever demanded is tax money, and I'm compensated for that by being defended, having a police force, having roads to drive on, air traffic control to keep my flying safe, and nice parks to recreate in.

[Capt.Slog 0]

Quote

Here is a portion of the 5th amendment ,Bill. You may not be aware of it's meaning although it is rather straight forward and in simple language ;" nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

Apparently in your haste to whine you missed this part of the Constitution:

Section 8 - Powers of Congress

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

[pirana 0]

Quote

>#1. I am not a gun owner but I don't think people should have to register theirs.

Agreed. Fortunately, in most places and for most weapons, people do NOT have to register them.

>#2. I don't like cigs but to tell a private place i.e. bar that their patrons cannot
>smoke is stepping over the line.

If it is a private bar with no employees (sole proprietorship) I'd agree. If it is a private bar with employees, then they have a right to a safe workplace.

However, if the air handling system is sufficient to keep the air clear of smoke, then the health risk issue is not a significant one.

>#3 My kids go to public school but cannot pray there, I don't think so.

??? Sure they can. Have them pray during lunch; no one will stop them. Just don't expect the school to set aside extra time during the day to pray. I have no desire to pay a teacher a salary so she can sit and watch kids pray.

>#4.Unlawful taxes

I agree! No unlawful taxes.

>#5 FDA says that food is GMO they don't have to tell you

??? Plenty of foods are GMO free and say so right there on the container. Sounds like your freedoms are intact there.

>#6 Forceful vaccinations that have toxic substances in them they want to
>shoot my kids up with, mind you these haven't been proven to prevent the
>disease.

Sorry, your right to not have your kid vaccinated ends when a disease he gets can kill my kid. The reason people do not lose most of their children today is BECAUSE of vaccinations.

>#7 The RFID chip in passports why?

Make it easier to identify passports. Not too different than a barcode.

This is what I mean by the Social Contract. If a persons idea of freedom is not having any rules they don't like, then they are about anarchy, not freedom. In a functioning society, living in that society means accepting the contract, and working within it for the changes you desire.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[pirana 0]

Quote

If you vaccinated your kid then your kid should be fine right? I reserve the right not to have my kid injected with toxic materials which I know to be harmful.

Any proof of this? I've read summaries of quite a few studies and the risk of significant harm from vaccination is very close to nil; definitely much less risky than not getting vaccinated. Taking an anti-vaccine stance puts you on the fringe of the black helicopter crowd. An objective look at the evidence overwhelmingly supports vaccination. Would you rather return to the days before we had vaccines for things like polio, tetanus, smallpox, etc.?

Do the people who think they are not free feel that each individual should be able to live by their own set of personally decreed laws?

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[kbordson 8]

Quote

Quote

Here is a portion of the 5th amendment ,Bill. You may not be aware of it's meaning although it is rather straight forward and in simple language ;" nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

Apparently in your haste to whine you missed this part of the Constitution:

Section 8 - Powers of Congress

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

Apparently in your haste to whine....

[jerryzflies 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Here is a portion of the 5th amendment ,Bill. You may not be aware of it's meaning although it is rather straight forward and in simple language ;" nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

Apparently in your haste to whine you missed this part of the Constitution:

Section 8 - Powers of Congress

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

Apparently in your haste to whine....

Which duties, imposts and excises does Congress levy that are non-uniform? How does that affect Congress's power to impose taxes?

If you can't fix it with a hammer, the problem's electrical.

[pirana 0]

Quote

What about Don Imus what he said was very mean and not nice at all. "Free" speech but you can get fired? Dosen't sound free to me sounds like you say what you want and may have to pay for it with your job.

Irrelevant. That was an employment decision. Mr. Imus was perfectly free to state his opinion, and his employer was perfectly free to fire him for it.

With freedoms come responsibility and consequences.

Do you think Mr. Imus being guaranteed his job regardless of his employer's desire to fire him equals a freedom?

There are plenty of media outlets outside the mainstream. You are perfectly free to use them.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[pirana 0]

Quote

Quote

GMO's are genetically modified organisms.

Damn. I thought it was Government Mandated Orgasms.

I was guessing Giant Mocha Oreos.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[pirana 0]

Quote

As long as we can vote to take away the freedoms of others to peacefully live their lives with the partners of the their choice, then no, we do not live in a free country.

I agree that is not a good law; but to me freedom is more than a single-issue topic. And I think this one will change eventually; just gotta wait for enough of the holdout generation to die off.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[cliffwhite 0]

Quote

Apparently in your haste to whine you missed this part of the Constitution:

Section 8 - Powers of Congress

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

No Captain, I didn't miss that. You may be unaware though that the Bill of Rights supercedes any other part of the Constitution.
Thus, while the Constitution does empower Congress to levy taxes , the 5th ammendment prohibits income taxes(confiscation of private property for public use).

Blues,
Cliff

2muchTruth

[pirana 0]

Quote

I have lived in Oceana, europe, Africa and visited other parts of the world. Out of everyone, I beleive the americans have it the easiest, considering the price and standard of living. The standard of living is slightly higher in australia I believe, but the cost are horrendus in comparison.

Agreed; and with similar experiences. I spent a couple weeks in Kenya (often touted as one of the more advanced African nations) and was surprised to be warned by a local to keep my voice down when talking politics. One of their laws required a portait of their President be prominently displayed in every business. I poked a little fun at that and he looks around the restaurant to see who is within earshot and warns me in hushed tones to shut up.

Did a little research before our trip and one thing that really caught my attention was that Malawi (at that time at least) had a law about length of hair for men.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[jerryzflies 0]

Quote

Quote

Apparently in your haste to whine you missed this part of the Constitution:

Section 8 - Powers of Congress

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

No Captain, I didn't miss that. You may be unaware though that the Bill of Rights supercedes any other part of the Constitution.
Thus, while the Constitution does empower Congress to levy taxes , the 5th ammendment prohibits income taxes(confiscation of private property for public use).

Blues,
Cliff

Have you notified the IRS? I expect they'll all pack up and go home.

If you can't fix it with a hammer, the problem's electrical.

[pirana 0]

Quote

i don't think i'm going to worry too much about gmo's. hopefully if some genetic mutant plant takes over the world, its something that the deer and elk like to eat and it will all be good.

I wish they could genetically modify thistle out of existence.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[cliffwhite 0]

Quote

This is what I mean by the Social Contract. If a persons idea of freedom is not having any rules they don't like, then they are about anarchy, not freedom.

Actually ,Pirana, anarchy simply defined is a system where he with the most guns rules.

Freedom is the ability to do as one pleases.
I for one believe in the right to do as one pleases as long as it doesn't interfere with the rights of others.

Blues,
Cliff

2muchTruth

[wmw999 2,130]

Quote

I for one believe in the right to do as one pleases as long as it doesn't interfere with the rights of others.

And in the event that you and someone else disagree on whether what one wants to do infringes on the other's rights, who adjudicates? Friends? Volunteer judges? Whoever has the most guns?

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[pirana 0]

Quote

Quote

Just wanted to see how many people think it's true. I personally think our Constitution is slowing going away What good is it if it is gone.

People have been pissing and moaning about the Constitution going away ever since the thing was signed. It's not a ticket to heaven and it's not like everyone walks around asking themselves if what they want is Constitutional or not. Hell, it not only allowed slavery, it counted Blacks as 2/3 of a person for the census, and actually had to be amended before women could vote in all fifty states.

What the Constitution DOES is give us a a framework to keep working, or struggling at the things we think are worthwhile. The Constitution may "guarantee" our freedoms, but that doesn't stop all kinds of people with agendas from running roughshod all over us. What the constution DOES do is to give us the means to fight back. It gives the President, congress, and courts the means to step in and impose limits when one or the other of them tries to grab too much power to themselves. Not to sound trite, but it is what we make of it - and gives us the means to go about trying.

Very well said Mr Brown.

Whenever I say your name I think of Reservoir Dogs.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[cliffwhite 0]

Have you notified the IRS? I expect they'll all pack up and go home.

[TankBuster 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

GMO's are genetically modified organisms.

Damn. I thought it was Government Mandated Orgasms.

I was guessing Giant Mocha Oreos.

mmm.. Do they make those? What about Giant Mammary Organs?

The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

[GeorgiaDon 340]

So you mean "free" in the sense that no-one has to help pay for it?

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)