crwtom 0 #51 February 25, 2009 QuoteQuote if you give guns to 8-11 year olds you'd probably find out that a very large percentage will do something terrible with the gun. Conclusion 10-20% (or so) of all children are very dangerous and should therefore be put into jail until they are save again These discussions work better without numbers pulled out of thin air. so you seriously want to argue that this percentage (what ever the correct number) will be negligible and acceptable ?? ******************************************************************* Fear causes hesitation, and hesitation will cause your worst fears to come true Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hausse 0 #52 February 25, 2009 Who ever gave the kid a fucking shotgun should go to jail. He scared the kid for life and because of him/her the boy has to go to jail... That's one of the most fucked up things in the US. How could even the craziest gun nut think it's a good idea to give an unsupervised kid a shotgun? Taking your kid hunting is one thing but say here you have a shotgun, do what ever you feel with it is just retarded... If you are paranoid enough to need guns and have kids, lock the guns in a safe! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy_Copland 0 #53 February 25, 2009 Bit of stone age thinking there Tony, give em a lobotomy while you're at it 1338 People aint made of nothin' but water and shit. Until morale improves, the beatings will continue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #54 February 25, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuote if you give guns to 8-11 year olds you'd probably find out that a very large percentage will do something terrible with the gun. Conclusion 10-20% (or so) of all children are very dangerous and should therefore be put into jail until they are save again These discussions work better without numbers pulled out of thin air. so you seriously want to argue that this percentage (what ever the correct number) will be negligible and acceptable ?? I'm arguing that your 10-20% figure is bullshit, by at least two orders of magnitude. You got people here that grew up with guns at an early age. In the past, it was quite common. Negligible and acceptable are fuzzier terms up for debate. What's laughable are the notions that giving this boy the gun scarred him and was the reason he killed the woman. There may have been parenting defects, but this wasn't the one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #55 February 25, 2009 Quote Bit of stone age thinking there Tony, give em a lobotomy while you're at it Might be old thinking Andy, but it's still rightThere's no fixing this monster or the ones that killed the Bulger baby - so get them out of society and keep them out... (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #56 February 25, 2009 Quotehe shot her - i guess he'll have lots of time on his little hands to realize that this wasn't some computer game That's part of the problem - I don't think kids that age really understand what killing someone actually means. They see it all the time on TV or computer games and think it's just a good way to blow off a little steam. The godawful mess it had to make must have taught him a thing or two. There are reasons for prosecuting kids as juveniles, they were already hashed out a century ago when juvenile justice systems and laws were created. They're based on the idea of at least TRYING to save and rehabilitate the life of a kid before it's completely and irreversably ruined. That and to protect the kid's little fannies from the adult inmates. The prosecutor says he doesn't want this kid on the street when he turns 21. I can understand that, and even agree. But I'm also not willing to throw an 11 year old kid's life on the trash heap, not yet anyway. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,123 #57 February 25, 2009 QuoteDad will have to live with the tragic results of leaving the gun where the kid could get to it for the rest of his life. IMO he's been punished enough. OTOH the 11 year old Killer needs to be punished to the full extent of the law. He didn't make a mistake he made a concious decision to kill someone. Then was cold hearted enough to go to school after he did the deed. If the courts feel sorry for poor little Johnny who killed his mom in her sleep with the blaast of a shot gun to the back of her head and give the little monster a pat on the head, counseling and then a walk. What kind of a message are we sending to all the other little johnny's that don't like someone. Wat message will you be sending when you let the Dad go free and put the child in prison? Well, that message will be that as an adult you can manipulate your child to kill anybody you suggest and the child will go to jail and you will keep your freedom. The message to other 11 year olds......there is no message to other 11 year olds. How many of them watch the news or read newspapers on a regular basis? (I am sure there will be a couple of people piping up about the incredibly smart kids they know that do....but I think most of us will be able to agree that it is not a common occurence.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #58 February 25, 2009 QuoteWell, that message will be that as an adult you can manipulate your child to kill anybody you suggest and the child will go to jail and you will keep your freedom. Jump to conclusions much?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,123 #59 February 25, 2009 Nope, just acting the same way as all these people on here who tell me the kid knew exactly what he was doing based on a newsreport. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #60 February 25, 2009 QuoteNope, just acting the same way as all these people on here who tell me the kid knew exactly what he was doing based on a newsreport. I'm figuring that the probability of the kid knowing what he was doing is one HELL of a lot higher than your supposition. Of course, I'm going on the premise that the kid *had* actually used the shotgun before - I'm figuring it's a pretty safe bet.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,123 #61 February 25, 2009 I'm going on the premise that all we know is a very young kid shot somebody. As you may have noticed is that I didn't say this took place in this case. Just that you are creating that possibility and are sending that message. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krip 2 #62 February 25, 2009 QuoteWat message will you be sending when you let the Dad go free and put the child in prison? QuoteDaddy lost his future wife and little johnny because he made a very serious error in judgement. If he's worth a shit he'll be in his own hell for the rest of his life. QuoteWell, that message will be that as an adult you can manipulate your child to kill anybody you suggest and the child will go to jail and you will keep your freedom. QuoteIf its proven that an adult "manipulated a child" or anyone else to kill someone than they need to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. QuoteThe message to other 11 year olds......there is no message to other 11 year olds. How many of them watch the news or read newspapers on a regular basis? (I am sure there will be a couple of people piping up about the incredibly smart kids they know that do....but I think most of us will be able to agree that it is not a common occurence.) QuoteThe 11 year olds don't have to read the newspapers or watch the news they have parents, it's their responsiabilty to educate their kids about poor little johnny, what he did, and what happened to him. They can also make it very clear that johnny's bio mommy & daddy aren't going to be able to get johhny back home until johnny is a lot older than grandma & grandpa. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,123 #63 February 25, 2009 QuoteThe 11 year olds don't have to read the newspapers or watch the news they have parents, it's their responsiabilty to educate their kids about poor little johnny, what he did, and what happened to him. Aren't you contradicting yourself here? Little Johnny is too young to learn anything unless spoonfed by his parents, but knew exactly what he was doing and should bare full repsponsibility for his actions under different circumstances. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krip 2 #64 February 26, 2009 QuoteQuoteThe 11 year olds don't have to read the newspapers or watch the news they have parents, it's their responsiabilty to educate their kids about poor little johnny, what he did, and what happened to him. Aren't you contradicting yourself here? Little Johnny is too young to learn anything unless spoonfed by his parents, but knew exactly what he was doing and should bare full repsponsibility for his actions under different circumstances. Nope follow the thread.One Jump Wonder Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,123 #65 February 26, 2009 Ahh okay, that clears it up Of course you are contradicting yourself. If it is the responsibility of the parent to educate and teach little johnny. Don't you think it is the parents responsibility to teach little johnny not to kill people? Their responsibility to ensure johnny doesn't have access to guns, specially when not trained? Their responsibility to ensure they don't leave their un and ammunition lying around little johnny? If it is the parents responsibility, then why do you propose to not punish the parent, but punish the child when it is obviously the parents who have not lived up to their responsibility? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krip 2 #66 February 26, 2009 Quote Ahh okay, that clears it up Of course you are contradicting yourself. If it is the responsibility of the parent to educate and teach little johnny. Don't you think it is the parents responsibility to teach little johnny not to kill people? Their responsibility to ensure johnny doesn't have access to guns, specially when not trained? Their responsibility to ensure they don't leave their un and ammunition lying around little johnny? If it is the parents responsibility, then why do you propose to not punish the parent, but punish the child when it is obviously the parents who have not lived up to their responsibility? OK Whatever you sayOne Jump Wonder Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
