Are people entitled to police & fire protection, public schools, driveable roads, etc.?

[Andy9o8 0]

Discuss.

[AggieDave 6]

The real question is, are people allowed to abuse the system? Are they allowed a certain percentage in regards to the populace and that is it for free? Or do we continue to cater to the 10% of people generating 90% of calls for emergency services for free?

Roads are taxed according to the type of vehicle being registered (at least in Texas), and in regards to what sort of cargo is being hauled (if any). For instance, my old 7000lbs truck cost more to register then my 600lbs motorcycle.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[shropshire 0]

Yes, that's what we pay our taxes for.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[kbordson 8]

In rural South Dakota, you might NOT get a nice paved road. Hard packed gravel might be what you have to pay for to get from the county road to your house and depending on how far away it is from that road... might be a mile or more.

Entitled to fire protection? A lot of communities still have volunteer fire departments. A friend lost his house when it burned down during a bilzzard and the fire truck got stuck. Was he "entitled" to better?

Entitled to police "protection"? They are not there to "protect" you. They enforce the law. But... the law has to be broken first (or a distinct threat against a law) You can't just call them up and say "need a body guard here cuz .... I can't take care of myself."

Entitled to "public schools"? Although I personally think that public school are better or equal to many of the private ones (having been to both).... I have several friends that home school because they are disappointed in either option. Are they "entitled? Nope, they are just relying on personal responsibility to educate their children.

Other questions?

Are you entitled to drive? Are you entitled to weight 350#? Are you entitled to skydive?

What some consider "rights" should really be looked at as personal responsibility.

[jcd11235 0]

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Roads are taxed according to the type of vehicle being registered (at least in Texas), and in regards to what sort of cargo is being hauled (if any). For instance, my old 7000lbs truck cost more to register then my 600lbs motorcycle.

I suspect the underlying motivation behind such variable registration fees has much to do with the relative difference in wear and tear on the roads due to use of the different vehicle types, which seems reasonable.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Capt.Slog 0]

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Roads are taxed according to the type of vehicle being registered (at least in Texas), and in regards to what sort of cargo is being hauled (if any). For instance, my old 7000lbs truck cost more to register then my 600lbs motorcycle.

I suspect the underlying motivation behind such variable registration fees has much to do with the relative difference in wear and tear on the roads due to use of the different vehicle types, which seems reasonable.

I seem to recall reading that road damage varies with the cube of the axle weight of a vehicle.

[Andy9o8 0]

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I seem to recall reading that road damage varies with the cube of the axle weight of a vehicle.

Yeah, ok, that's great.
So what's your opinion on the thread topic?

[Andrewwhyte 1]

They are entitled to equal access to them within the delivery constraints (budgets) approved by the legislative branch.

[billvon 2,426]

>In rural South Dakota, you might NOT get a nice paved road. Hard packed
>gravel might be what you have to pay for to get from the county road to your
>house and depending on how far away it is from that road... might be a mile or
>more.

Of course. Some places have better roads, some have worse. Few places have none at all.

>Entitled to fire protection? A lot of communities still have volunteer fire
>departments. A friend lost his house when it burned down during a bilzzard and
>the fire truck got stuck. Was he "entitled" to better?

?? You've given an example of a fire department that made an effort to save someone's house and could not do it. That's always going to happen; there will always be houses that burn because the fire department could not put out the fire.

The issue here is that the effort was made. Would you be OK in the exact same situation if they fire company hadn't even bothered to try to come out, because they knew he didn't have a lot of money to pay them later?

[kbordson 8]

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>Entitled to fire protection? A lot of communities still have volunteer fire
>departments. A friend lost his house when it burned down during a bilzzard and
>the fire truck got stuck. Was he "entitled" to better?

?? You've given an example of a fire department that made an effort to save someone's house and could not do it. That's always going to happen; there will always be houses that burn because the fire department could not put out the fire.

The issue here is that the effort was made. Would you be OK in the exact same situation if they fire company hadn't even bothered to try to come out, because they knew he didn't have a lot of money to pay them later?

My point was it was a VOLUNTEER service. The firefighters weren't on the gov't payroll. Should it have been? Would it have changed the results?

I don't really think so to either question.

In some communities, people want everything provided for them by the governement. In other communities, the people are more self reliant and don't expect or demand that other people moneys make their life easier.

[billvon 2,426]

>My point was it was a VOLUNTEER service. The firefighters weren't on the
>gov't payroll. Should it have been?

No, volunteer services are great! As you know, though, many volunteer firefighters are paid via tax money, and all are supported one way or another via taxes (from a town, city or fire district.)

>Would it have changed the results?

That depends on the situation. If all they could afford was a rear wheel drive pickup truck, then yes, it might have changed the results. If they had a vehicle more suited to their job and the conditions, then probably not.

>In some communities, people want everything provided for them by the
>governement. In other communities, the people are more self reliant and don't
>expect or demand that other people moneys make their life easier.

And in some communities, they decide that they want to use their tax money to support the local volunteer fire company to buy them equipment, pay for a place to store it etc. Would you look on them with as much scorn as you look on those freeloaders you describe above?

[Capt.Slog 0]

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I seem to recall reading that road damage varies with the cube of the axle weight of a vehicle.

Yeah, ok, that's great.
So what's your opinion on the thread topic?

People driving heavier vehicles should pay more for upkeep of the roads we are entitled to use, because they do indeed cause more wear and tear.

[Capt.Slog 0]

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Entitled to fire protection? A lot of communities still have volunteer fire departments. A friend lost his house when it burned down during a bilzzard and the fire truck got stuck. Was he "entitled" to better?

.

Was the truck a volunteer too? Or was it bought with tax money?

[rehmwa 2]

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People driving heavier vehicles should pay more for upkeep of the roads we are entitled to use, because they do indeed cause more wear and tear.

Why, next thing you know, you'll be stating that people should pay for the health care they use, and have user fees for national parks, and everybody should pay the same tax amount......

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Capt.Slog 0]

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People driving heavier vehicles should pay more for upkeep of the roads we are entitled to use, because they do indeed cause more wear and tear.

Why, next thing you know, you'll be stating that people should pay for the health care they use, and have user fees for national parks, and everybody should pay the same tax amount......

If you say so.

However, choosing to drive a Hummer is a personal choice. Getting cancer is not.

[rehmwa 2]

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People driving heavier vehicles should pay more for upkeep of the roads we are entitled to use, because they do indeed cause more wear and tear.

Why, next thing you know, you'll be stating that people should pay for the health care they use, and have user fees for national parks, and everybody should pay the same tax amount......

If you say so.

However, choosing to drive a Hummer is a personal choice. Getting cancer is not.

Hummer vs Cancer - nice.

you are really defining that very fine edge where you draw your subjective personal line - really thinning down the whole grey area.......

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[AggieDave 6]

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People driving heavier vehicles should pay more for upkeep of the roads we are entitled to use, because they do indeed cause more wear and tear.

Then are "frequent fliers" in terms of calls for service with emergency services responsible for more of the upkeep in the system? Since those calls are preventing officers from patrolling other parts of town for preventative enforcement in terms of burglaries, narcotics activities and such.

That was my point with my example with registration fees for vehicles.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[kbordson 8]

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However, choosing to drive a Hummer is a personal choice. Getting cancer is not.

Personal choice.

interesting segway here.


Getting cancer as a personal choice.

Of course no one would ever say "not doing anything with the rest of my life, lets get some cancer thing."

But... your risk activities do greatly influence certain cancer types.

My dad had lung cancer; my mom has COPD (second hand injury from my dads smoking). My sister smokes close to a pack a day. That's her choice. If she gets lung cancer.... it is due to choices that she made. I have enjoyed a nice cigar every once in a while to relax/celebrate. If I get lung cancer, it it do to choices I made? Should I pay more as one would pay more to drive a hummer? Should it be even a further tax on tobacco? But... some people CAN smoke all their life and NOT get cancer. Look at George Burns (RIP)

Lets look at another cancer with "choices." Cervical cancer. (Now personally I HATE this cancer. I hate the way it grows, I hate the way it smells, I hate the way it kills) But... lets look at choice. We (medicine) currently believe that the changes that progress to squamous cell carcinoma of the cervix are induced by the virus HPV. This is a sexually transmitted virus. She might not have chosen to get cancer. Nor did she choose to get a STD. But.... in most cases (excluding rape and those situations) she DID choose to sleep with "him." So do we tax sexy lingerie .... or "untax" condoms? (note: condoms do not protect completely from viruses) But again... there appears to be a genetic predisposition here again.... so can some people sleep with multiple partners and not pay extra or does everyone

PERSONAL CHOICE comes with PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

[jcd11235 0]

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People driving heavier vehicles should pay more for upkeep of the roads we are entitled to use, because they do indeed cause more wear and tear.

Then are "frequent fliers" in terms of calls for service with emergency services responsible for more of the upkeep in the system? Since those calls are preventing officers from patrolling other parts of town for preventative enforcement in terms of burglaries, narcotics activities and such.

That was my point with my example with registration fees for vehicles.

In theory, yes. The "frequent fliers" should be paying more via fines levied onto them by the courts after convictions. In practice, that system probably doesn't work nearly as well as basing vehicle registration fees on vehicle types/weights and funding road maintenance with fuel taxes.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[AggieDave 6]

Many of the frequent callers aren't the subject of their calls. They're calling in regards to personality conflicts and civil matters. So they aren't arrested, ticketed or otherwise found in a criminal court. They are, however, calling 911 at a minimum of once or twice a week. Many times much more often then that.

If you get a scanner, listen to the FD/EMS channel. You'll hear tone out after tone out for a headache or an upset stomach. People calling an ambulance to take them to the ER for something that they should see a regular doctor about. However, they do not have any sort of insurance and know that the cities will not actively pursue collections on them. This is due to perceived political correctness that has to be adhered by.

Literally 10% of the population in a city are responsible for 90% of the calls for service for emergency responders!

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[billvon 2,426]

>However, they do not have any sort of insurance and know that the cities
>will not actively pursue collections on them. This is due to perceived
>political correctness that has to be adhered by.

Or due to the more accurate assessment that it is not worth $25,000 of the city's money to go after someone who has no money. (I mean, if you think that's important, go for it. I just hope you are willing to pay more for that.)

[AggieDave 6]

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Or due to the more accurate assessment that it is not worth $25,000 of the city's money to go after someone who has no money. (I mean, if you think that's important, go for it. I just hope you are willing to pay more for that.)

It adds up. If I remember correctly my city wrote off somewhere around $1,500,000 in unpaid ambulance fees last year. My city has 75,000 citizens as of the 2000 census. So image what that is like in a city like Dallas or Nashville or even Chicago!

Bill, I want to challenge you to do a ride along with your local EMS/FD as well as your local PD for one night each. I would like you to see the other side of things. Not the edited for TV reality TV version of things, but all the calls for service. I think you would enjoy it!

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[billvon 2,426]

>It adds up. If I remember correctly my city wrote off somewhere around
>$1,500,000 in unpaid ambulance fees last year. My city has 75,000
>citizens as of the 2000 census. So image what that is like in a city like
>Dallas or Nashville or even Chicago!

Right. So the question is - would you rather have $1,500,000 in unpaid ambulance fees, or $1,200,000 in unpaid ambulance fees and an additional $4,000,000 in legal/collection agency bills to pay?

>Bill, I want to challenge you to do a ride along with your local EMS/FD
>as well as your local PD for one night each.

I'd be happy to.

[TrophyHusband 0]

if we've paid for them via taxes, then yes. we bought them, they're ours.

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[TrophyHusband 0]

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Some places have better roads, some have worse. Few places have none at all.

the ones with none at all are my favorite places, but that's more of a bonfire subject than s.c.

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com