Wow didn't take long...

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

1. You weren't there, so you don't even get to discuss that.
2. 99% of those that had weapons confiscated had NO identification on them whatsoever.
3. Those that did were let go.
4. I also admitted that mistakes were made and they were rectified. Please tell me that you have _some_ time in te military and know that not everyone gets _the word._

Like I said - you have not a clue why this bothers us, so further discussion here in response to your new question is a complete waste of our time.

[BIGUN 1,069]

You're right, I don't know shit from a good grade of peanut butter as to why you guys are taking an emotional stance on such a logical issue. So, I'll just bow out and give you guys an opportunity to write another check to the NRA.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[Zep 0]

As an outsider let me see if I understand this right,
Osama Bin Obama and his gang of lefty thugs have the actuall guall to try and take away
or make it more difficult to uphold your God give right to own, sell and buy fire arms.
Wow just about now it must suck to live in the land of the free.
Living in Europe (and with the exception of the British isles)
looks like by the end of Osamas term I'll have more gun related rights than you guys,

Gone fishing

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

You're right, I don't know shit from a good grade of peanut butter as to why you guys are taking an emotional stance on such a logical issue. So, I'll just bow out and give you guys an opportunity to write another check to the NRA.

YOU are the one attributing emotion to the stance, Keith - not us.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[BIGUN 1,069]

Mike,

You and I respect each other so I'd like to keep it civil with you. I respectfully disagree. How many people on here actually read the entire bill, not just the headline. Please look at it, Mike and then tell me... 1) Are not most of those subtenets already in place, and 2) please tell me what is it about this bill that so terribly erodes your second amendment rights?

Did you read the then 52 comments associated with the bill on the hyperlink provided? So many people go after the breadth, rather than the depth.... Comments repeatedly droned like Stepford Wives... "From my cold dead hands..." Evidence as to the emotional aspect, rather than a logical review. Seriously, Brother.. I own in the neighborhood of a couple of hundred guns, I didn't lose any sleep last night thinking the dingo's were gonna get my babies. I mean truly - look at it for what it is... There is NOTHING in that bill that a CCW/P doesn't already have to comply with. It just extends it (per our discussion last month) to all gun owners. All it does is establish "title" of ownership. That's it.

My God, there is no constitutional right for owning a vehicle, but you guys will register and pay a tag and tax without a single complaint for something that is not even constitutionally protected and I'm being emotional?

Now, we can disagree all day... And, there's not one of us that hasn't put their name on the dotted line to protect and defend the amendments... but in regards to the first... why are you guys wasting your time bantering with me. Put pen to paper and write your congressman if this bill causes you concern. When you're done with the letter, post a copy of it on here... you may help someone else with the framework for their copy to their congressman. That would be a more logical approach. Donchya think?

On a separate note: I just got a new HK P30 . So far, so good. Needed a little sight adjustment for me, but other than that, I'm very happy with it.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[rushmc 18]

The simple fact that a federal license to have a semi of any kind is enough for me.

My guns have all be purchased privatly. (except one handgun) I a legal to own all of them. However, there is no paper work. Just the way I like it.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Mike,

You and I respect each other so I'd like to keep it civil with you. I respectfully disagree. How many people on here actually read the entire bill, not just the headline. Please look at it, Mike and then tell me... 1) Are not most of those subtenets already in place, and 2) please tell me what is it about this bill that so terribly erodes your second amendment rights?

I did read the bill.

Quote

Did you read the then 52 comments associated with the bill on the hyperlink provided? So many people go after the breadth, rather than the depth.... Comments repeatedly droned like Stepford Wives... "From my cold dead hands..." Evidence as to the emotional aspect, rather than a logical review. Seriously, Brother.. I own in the neighborhood of a couple of hundred guns, I didn't lose any sleep last night thinking the dingo's were gonna get my babies.

And that's their right - look at the emotion in First or Fourth Amendment threads on this very board. As I said before, not everyone trusts fed.gov to act in a benign manner - and in fact, fed.gov has already acted in bad faith in regards to confiscations.

Quote

I mean truly - look at it for what it is... There is NOTHING in that bill that a CCW/P doesn't already have to comply with. It just extends it (per our discussion last month) to all gun owners. All it does is establish "title" of ownership. That's it.

No, it doesn't. It does much more, and there's plenty in there that CWP do not have to do (at least in Texas - I can't speak for your state).

Cali-style storage requirements, HIPPA-violating medical checks - that right there blows it out of the water. The government already illegally keeps sale records in defiance of the FOPA.

Quote

My God, there is no constitutional right for owning a vehicle, but you guys will register and pay a tag and tax without a single complaint for something that is not even constitutionally protected and I'm being emotional?

I don't have to pay tax and tag (or have a license) to merely own it, only if I take it on public roads. I also don't have to let fed.gov know when and to whom I sell it, I don't have to take it back to the dealer to sell it to someone else, nor is there a federal database of car sales.

Quote

Now, we can disagree all day... And, there's not one of us that hasn't put their name on the dotted line to protect and defend the amendments... but in regards to the first... why are you guys wasting your time bantering with me. Put pen to paper and write your congressman if this bill causes you concern. When you're done with the letter, post a copy of it on here... you may help someone else with the framework for their copy to their congressman. That would be a more logical approach. Donchya think?

I already have.

Quote

On a separate note: I just got a new HK P30 . So far, so good. Needed a little sight adjustment for me, but other than that, I'm very happy with it.

Nice looking pistola!

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[BIGUN 1,069]

Kinda lost me on the HIPPA violation thing. I re-scrubbed it and would ask that you point the medical check thing out for me. For those who are going to write their congressman... might I suggest you play the player and not the ball...

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[rushmc 18]

Quote

Kinda lost me on the HIPPA violation thing. I re-scrubbed it and would ask that you point the medical check thing out for me. For those who are going to write their congressman... might I suggest you play the player and not the ball...

Good sugestion and I did.

This bill would only serve to make criminals out of law abiding legal gun owners. It would increase the cost of ownership (not to mention the hassels) and build yet another government program. One that is not needed for any reason.


Add to all of this that gun ownership has increased how much in the last 4 years? Tell me, has there been a coresponding increase in gun crimes/murder?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Kinda lost me on the HIPPA violation thing. I re-scrubbed it and would ask that you point the medical check thing out for me. For those who are going to write their congressman... might I suggest you play the player and not the ball...

First off, an apology - it's HIPAA, not HIPPA (I always get that backwards).

The reference is in section 102, part 8.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Ron 7]

Quote

Did anyone read the entire bill from top to bottom or just the editorial snippet in OP's thread?

I have read the whole bill. It is a stupid law that will only remove citizens rights, while doing nothing to prevent crime.

Quote

Please read it and then share with me how it is any different than what police, soldiers or even a CCP/W has to go thru

For starters it is to OWN, not to carry. Even though the 2nd gives the right to KEEP and BEAR arms... I am OK with reasonable restrictions on who can keep (no felons, mentally unstable, children...ect). And I am OK with reasonable requirements to carry (Classes, range certification... ect).

But this bill requires people to jump through a hoop just to own a weapon. The NICS check does a good job of screening already.

Quote

While you're at it, please remember that I've probably had more weapons than most on here combined and been a right-to-own advocate for some 30 years - so it may be a bit of a hard sell.

Clearly you are not a right to own individual. You are only OK if people follow the rules you feel are justified. That is not right to own, that is right to own what I feel is ok and only in the way I feel is ok.

But for fun:

Quote

on the afternoon of May 10, 2007, Blair Holt, a junior at Julian High School in Chicago, was killed on a public bus riding home from school when he used his body to shield a girl who was in the line of fire after a young man boarded the bus and started shooting.

Chicago already outlaws firearms. This is nothing but pandering to fear. If firearms laws actually worked, this incident would have never been able to happen.

1. The shooter was a juvenile so he was not legally able to own a firearm (18).
2. Much less a pistol (21).
3. Much less in Chicago (illegal).
4. Or on a school bus (illegal).

Quote

‘(36) The term ‘qualifying firearm’--

‘(A) means--

‘(i) any handgun; or

‘(ii) any semiautomatic firearm that can accept any detachable ammunition feeding device; and

‘(B) does not include any antique.’.

Ah, so almost any shotgun, or hunting rifle is fine. Hate to break this to you, but a hunting rifle or a shotgun is just as dangerous as many rifles and both are MORE dangerous than a pistol. Why only target those items?

Quote

(1) IN GENERAL- It shall be unlawful for any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to possess a qualifying firearm on or after the applicable date, unless that person has been issued a firearm license--

The "license" to own a firearm is the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution.

Quote

(7) a certificate attesting to the completion at the time of application of a written firearms examination, which shall test the knowledge and ability of the applicant regarding--

I bet even though you have been "a right-to-own advocate for some 30 years"... I bet I could write a test you could not pass. Also, the Constitution does not say "If you pass a test". What kind of test would you require before a person exercises their right to free speech?

Quote

(E) any other subjects, as the Attorney General determines to be appropriate;

The test requires that you pass "any other subject the AG determines to be appropriate"??!?!?!?!?!

Ever hear the joke about the black guy that went to vote in GA in the late 50's? They had a "poll test" you had to be able to read a newspaper and tell the sheriff what it said. If you were white, they handed you a copy of the local town paper. When a black guy came up they handed him a copy of the Chinese Times. The sheriff asked, "Boy can you tell me what that paper says?" The black man replied, "Yep, no niggers are voting today."

The rest of the bill IS ALREADY ALLOWED.

1. Any dealer that sells weapons must have a 4473 filled out and a NICS must be done (Except in some states that allow a CHL holder to skip the NICS).

2. The ATF can inspect whenever they want.

3. If a police department has a serial number, they can already track it back to the dealer and that dealer is required to keep the 4473 for 20 years. And if the dealer closes shop he has to send all his 4473's to the ATF.

The bill claims "(2) it is in the national interest and within the role of the Federal Government to ensure that the regulation of firearms is uniform among the States, that law enforcement can quickly and effectively trace firearms used in crime, and that firearms owners know how to use and safely store their firearms."

But then says, "(a) In General- This Act and the amendments made by this Act may not be construed to preempt any provision of the law of any State or political subdivision of that State, or prevent a State or political subdivision of that State from enacting any provision of law regulating or prohibiting conduct with respect to firearms, except to the extent that the provision of law is inconsistent with any provision of this Act or an amendment made by this Act, and then only to the extent of the inconsistency."

So they really don't care if the State bans firearms... That's fine according to the bill. But if a State allows ownership then they must follow these rules. Allowing a State to ban firearms is not exactly ensuring that "the regulation of firearms is uniform among the States" now is it?

So:

1. What tests would you require to exercise the right to fee speech? What test for preventing illegal search and seizures? What test to prevent a person from testifying against themselves? What test to get the right to a fast and fair trial? What test to avoid cruel and unusual punishment?

2. How would this bill do anything that is not already in place?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 7]

Quote

1. You weren't there, so you don't even get to discuss that.

You are ok with confiscation. You admitted that. Trying to say that since someone was not there they are not allowed to have an opinion is such a bogus position it is not even funny.

Point is you admitted to being fine with confiscation. You are a strong proponent of registration.

Registration has lead to confiscation in other Countries AND in the US.

Confiscation has been proven to be illegal. Yet you supported it... Heck, you DID it.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[BIGUN 1,069]

Quote

Heck, you DID it.

You are mistaken, Ron... I was not a participant in the confiscation. I am assigned to ESF's 6 & 7.
And, you are right in that I am for registration.
But, please don't ever imply that I support or am for confiscation.
You can say a lot of things, Ron... but, don't ever twist my words into something that I never said.
Your one warning.


We've already been down this road and I truly respect everyone's position on the matter... but, If you don't like/want registration, you're writing to the wrong person.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[rushmc 18]

Quote

Quote

Heck, you DID it.

You are mistaken, Ron... I was not a participant in the confiscation. I am assigned to ESF's 6 & 7.
And, you are right in that I am for registration.
But, please don't ever imply that I support or am for confiscation.
You can say a lot of things, Ron... but, don't ever twist my words into something that I never said.
Your one warning.


We've already been down this road and I truly respect everyone's position on the matter... but, If you don't like/want registration, you're writing to the wrong person.

Ok, but if you think registration is a good idea, I think you are in the wrong country

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Ron 7]

Quote

Your one warning.

Warning of what? Are you making a threat?
And what exactly are you gonna do hero?

Quote

But, please don't ever imply that I support or am for confiscation.

You said you supported it.

Quote

P.S. I may have punched out the thread regarding the N.O. confiscations before you had a chance to read.
The directive was anyone on the streets _who did not have ID of any kind_ and had weapons; those weapons were to be confiscated. If they could not prove who they were, the guns were taken to a repository. They were told the process to reclaim their weapons. Of the thousands of weapons I saw, 458 were taken to the repository. No records were used to kick in doors and target weapons for confiscation. If you were on the street and...

You supported it. Pretty much end of the story. You support registration that HAS lead to confiscation.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[BIGUN 1,069]

Quote

Ok, but if you think registration is a good idea, I think you are in the wrong country

Ya know... I been thinking "Belize" a lot lately.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[rushmc 18]

Quote

Quote

Ok, but if you think registration is a good idea, I think you are in the wrong country

Ya know... I been thinking "Belize" a lot lately.

No, dont do that. We need good people here in the good ole USA, even if we dont agree on some topics

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[BIGUN 1,069]

Ron!!!

Try to keep up.
I was reporting what happened.
That doesn't mean I supported, endorsed, participated, etc.

This is running forever... go write your congressman and if you defeat the bill - that's great.
Sheesh.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[BIGUN 1,069]

Quote

No, don't do that.

I luv you too, man

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

All it does is establish "title" of ownership...

On a separate note: I just got a new HK P30...

Since you believe that the federal government should keep track of who owns what guns, have you voluntarily taken this new firearm of yours to the federal authorities and asked them to register it to you?

I know you're not required to do this under current law, but if you really believe this is a good thing, you should set an example and voluntarily submit all of your firearms for registration to local and federal police. Have you? Do you walk the talk?

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

Ya know... I been thinking "Belize" a lot lately.

They require gun registration, so it should be paradise, right?

Quote:

"The incidence of crime, including violent crimes such as armed robbery, shooting, stabbing, murder, and rape, is on the rise..."

Source: http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1055.html

Don't you just hate it when those criminals won't obey the law?

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Quote

Ya know... I been thinking "Belize" a lot lately.

They require gun registration, so it should be paradise, right?

Quote:

"The incidence of crime, including violent crimes such as armed robbery, shooting, stabbing, murder, and rape, is on the rise..."

Source: http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1055.html

Don't you just hate it when those criminals won't obey the law?

but the state department seems to say that about every nation on the earth in its travel advisories.

[BIGUN 1,069]

Well, Actually John is right on this one.... Belize has one of the highest murder per capita in the world (even higher than Ireland. But, they also have a CCP/W law.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

Quote

Quote:

"The incidence of crime, including violent crimes such as armed robbery, shooting, stabbing, murder, and rape, is on the rise..."

but the state department seems to say that about every nation on the earth in its travel advisories.

Which just goes to show, once again, that there is no correlation between gun laws and crime.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote:

"The incidence of crime, including violent crimes such as armed robbery, shooting, stabbing, murder, and rape, is on the rise..."

but the state department seems to say that about every nation on the earth in its travel advisories.

Which just goes to show, once again, that there is no correlation between gun laws and crime.

Well, other than that the criminals IGNORE them...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706