Closing Gitmo.

[nerdgirl 0]

Quote

And as has been demonstrated over-and-over again, the most effective methods to defeat insurgents and terrorists is not through traditional military action and not through torture, e.g., the failure of the French in Algeria. Less than 7% of terrorist groups active in the latter half of the 20th Century and first 7 years of this century were defeated by military action.

Do you want to use the most effective methods, or are there other reasons you want to pursue ineffective methods?

And while history is not predictive, we ignore(d) it at our own peril.

Re-reading some of the threads, we’ve got at least 4 different topics at play in this thread: closing Guantanamo detention facility, counterterrorism, counterinsurgency, and ineffectiveness of torture.

I want be explicitly clear on the 93% figure I sited above, since I think I see some confusion, which in re-reading my quote above I can see how I helped perpetuate.

The 93% refers to how terrorists groups end. That is 93% of terrorists groups ended by means other than military action. Only 7% of terrorists groups came to an end through military action (of any kind, conventional, COIN, or other.)

The two means by which the majority of terrorist groups have been defeated or ended are (1) “they were penetrated and eliminated by local police and intelligence agencies” (40%), or (2) political absorption into government (43%), e.g., what happened in Northern Ireland with the IRA.

Zero, none, nada, zilch, null, not a single one, was defeated using torture.

I'm not aware of anyone who has done as robust a survey of how counterinsugencies end. The French is Algeria and the British in Malaya are the classic examples.

/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[chuckakers 370]

Quote

***
Zero, none, nada, zilch, null, not a single one, was defeated using torture.

No one said torture defeats terrorist groups. Those who disagree with you said torture is known to be helpful getting the bastards to talk.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[nerdgirl 0]

Quote

Quote

***
Zero, none, nada, zilch, null, not a single one, was defeated using torture.

No one said torture defeats terrorist groups. Those who disagree with you said torture is known to be helpful getting the bastards to talk.

To talk - sure. Reams and reams of false confessions are not useful. That's what you get.

Known to be effective in producing useful intelligence ... can you provide one instance? The best source of intelligence obtained from the detention of KSM was his computer hard drive.

Again, are you then asserting that the Marine Interogators I cited are lying or don't know about what they're speaking?


/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[nerdgirl 0]

It's been 3 days and none of you have responded with any facts to the contrary ... do you still hold your opinions as quoted below:

Quote

Quote

Idiots. Geez.

Quote

Remove the threat, one way or another. Talking "nice nice" to them doesn't work, it never has.

Quote

All of the militant Islamic nut jobs are cheering all around the world because they know we have a "diplomacy first" pussy in the white house. Shutting down gitmo, halting trails, and saying no "torture" will really get the attention of the extremists. It will make them back down because they are being treated with respect. The STUPIDITY of people is amazing these days. Lets all hold hands and Have a Coke and a Smile! What alternate reality do some of you live in?

Quote

in order to win a war you must be willing to go at least 1 step further than who you are fighting. anything less is a waste of time and effort. showing weakness (like pulling out of the war, releasing prisoners, or even having a large percentage of the population show outrage for the war itself) only instills confidence and resolve in the ones you are fighting and makes the war harder to fight and win and that ultimately costs more lives, time and resourses.

Quote

I think we should be bombing the shit out the mountains of Afghanistan. But don't use bogus arguments about what helps the enemy recruit.

Do you guys think these guys are idiots, liberal pussies, living in an alternate reality, showing weakness, wasting time, making bogus arguments, or using the methods aren’t working? And on what basis do you know more than they do?

Still waiting ... which of these folks I quoted in post #115 do you call “pin-headed ‘expert(s)’” and on what basis do you assert you know more than they do? Who’s going to step up & put something out other rhetoric?

-- GEN David Petraeus (he’s got a PhD from Princeton … does that makes him a “pin-headed” who should be dismissed?)

-- LTC John Nagl, USA (ret), who served in Iraq in 2003 and Capt Nate Fick, USMC, who served in Afghanistan on 2002 and Iraq in 2003 [multiple sequential citations].

-- GEN Petraeus (redux)

-- LtGen James Mattis, USMC

-- The USAF officer who led the intelligence and interrogation operations that led to finding and killing al Zarqawi.

-- GEN Colin Powell, USA (ret)

-- Senator John McCain (x 2)

-- FBI Special Agent Jack Cloonan, who averted a real-ticking time bombing situation with a radical Islamist terrorist using interrogation methods that didn’t include torture

-- the Marine Corps Interrogator Translator Teams Association

-- the US Army

Other than Sen John McCain (recently) those guys are all operators.


It’s never been about “what (I) say/said” but about what the data and historical records supports and what those with *operational* experience (not analytical, not policy, not theoretical, and not academic) have learned. It's about listening to the guys who are the operators.

/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[DanG 1]

Um, you forgot Jack Bauer.

That's the only "reality" some people understand.

- Dan G

[jerryzflies 0]

Quote

It's been 3 days and none of you have responded with any facts to the contrary ... do you still hold your opinions as quoted below:

I warned you not to confuse them with facts. But does anyone listen to me? Hell no.

If you can't fix it with a hammer, the problem's electrical.

[Gawain 0]

Quote

It's been 3 days and none of you have responded with any facts to the contrary ... do you still hold your opinions as quoted below:

Quote

Quote

Idiots. Geez.

Quote

Remove the threat, one way or another. Talking "nice nice" to them doesn't work, it never has.

Quote

All of the militant Islamic nut jobs are cheering all around the world because they know we have a "diplomacy first" pussy in the white house. Shutting down gitmo, halting trails, and saying no "torture" will really get the attention of the extremists. It will make them back down because they are being treated with respect. The STUPIDITY of people is amazing these days. Lets all hold hands and Have a Coke and a Smile! What alternate reality do some of you live in?

Quote

in order to win a war you must be willing to go at least 1 step further than who you are fighting. anything less is a waste of time and effort. showing weakness (like pulling out of the war, releasing prisoners, or even having a large percentage of the population show outrage for the war itself) only instills confidence and resolve in the ones you are fighting and makes the war harder to fight and win and that ultimately costs more lives, time and resourses.

Quote

I think we should be bombing the shit out the mountains of Afghanistan. But don't use bogus arguments about what helps the enemy recruit.

Do you guys think these guys are idiots, liberal pussies, living in an alternate reality, showing weakness, wasting time, making bogus arguments, or using the methods aren’t working? And on what basis do you know more than they do?

Still waiting ... which of these folks I quoted in post #115 do you call “pin-headed ‘expert(s)’” and on what basis do you assert you know more than they do? Who’s going to step up & put something out other rhetoric?

-- GEN David Petraeus (he’s got a PhD from Princeton … does that makes him a “pin-headed” who should be dismissed?)

-- LTC John Nagl, USA (ret), who served in Iraq in 2003 and Capt Nate Fick, USMC, who served in Afghanistan on 2002 and Iraq in 2003 [multiple sequential citations].

-- GEN Petraeus (redux)

-- LtGen James Mattis, USMC

-- The USAF officer who led the intelligence and interrogation operations that led to finding and killing al Zarqawi.

-- GEN Colin Powell, USA (ret)

-- Senator John McCain (x 2)

-- FBI Special Agent Jack Cloonan, who averted a real-ticking time bombing situation with a radical Islamist terrorist using interrogation methods that didn’t include torture

-- the Marine Corps Interrogator Translator Teams Association

-- the US Army

Other than Sen John McCain (recently) those guys are all operators.


It’s never been about “what (I) say/said” but about what the data and historical records supports and what those with *operational* experience (not analytical, not policy, not theoretical, and not academic) have learned. It's about listening to the guys who are the operators.

/Marg

It's interesting that you invoked Gen. Patraeus. He utilized conventional military forces, saturated AOs, cleaned out the caches. A "cop on every corner" as it were.

He effectively compartmentalized the "occupation" until the Iraqis could take over. Was it conventional use of forces, not entirely. Were there circumstances of "extreme discretion"...you bet.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[nerdgirl 0]

Quote

It's interesting that you invoked Gen. Patraeus. He utilized conventional military forces, saturated AOs, cleaned out the caches. A "cop on every corner" as it were.

No, it's really not that interesting since I've been writing about counterinsurgency theory and operations for the last 18 months.

You know it's Oprah's small wars council, the Lifetime channel's special series on asymmetric warfare, and Tyra's latest hit "America's Next Top COIN theorist." All the girls are doing it.

Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[Laszloimage 0]

They've been exposed to our military and democracy. So now they have to be exposed to our legal system as well.
Otherwise we would betray ourselves.

[NotBond 0]

Quote

It's been 3 days and none of you have responded with any facts to the contrary ... do you still hold your opinions as quoted below:

Do I still hold that talking "nice nice" to terrorists doesn't work? Absolutely yes:

10/8/85 - Disabled American Leon Klinghoffer is shot in the forehead and thrown overboard, still in his wheelchair, by Pakistan terrorists who boarded the cruise ship Achille Lauro.

12/21/88 - Pan Am flight 103 blown up over Lockerbie, killing 270 people.

9/11/01 - Terrorists hijack planes and fly them into buildings in the US - 2,998 dead

9/1/04 - Terrorists take over Breslan School, holding over 1100 people hostage. Ultimately, 334 were killed.

(Islamic) terrorists have carried out more than 12 thousand (12,000) deadly attacks since 9/11.

Sura (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]...and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."

Sura (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".

Sura (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah"

I could list hundreds more instances like the above, but I don't want writers cramp. You can choose to research other incidents, or the underlying philosophy if you want, or not. If you choose not to, then there is nothing that I can say that will convince you that the people (and I use that word loosely) who whose stated goal is the destruction of this country, are not trustworthy, not nice, and would just as soon slice off your head as look at you. If you continue to think in this way, then you are simply one of the sheep that it is my job to protect from the wolves. The sheep don't believe in the wolves, or the danger therein, and will not believe there is a danger until their neighbors have blown off limbs from the IED placed in the shopping mall, or are dying from the chem/bio agent that was released upwind, or into the food chain, or perhaps sprayed onto the salad bar. And that's fine, I accept that, it's my job. And if there are no sheepdogs (protectors) near you if/when the bad stuff happens, I wish you luck.

Doug

Courage is being scared to death - but saddling up anyways... - John Wayne

[DanG 1]

Wow.

What does that have to do with torture?

- Dan G

[Capt.Slog 0]

Quote

Wow.

What does that have to do with torture?

It has nothing whatsoever with torture or the topic at hand. A weak attempt at diversion.

[billvon 2,400]

=========
Sura (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]...and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."

Sura (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".

Sura (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah"
=========

Battle Hymn of the Republic:

I have read a fiery gospel writ in burnished rows of steel:
"As ye deal with my contemners, so with you my grace shall deal;
Let the Hero, born of woman, crush the serpent with his heel,
Since God is marching on."

Pope Urban II, concerning Muslims:

I, or rather the Lord, beseech you as Christ's heralds to publish this everywhere and to persuade all people of whatever rank, foot-soldiers and knights, poor and rich, to carry aid promptly to those Christians and to destroy that vile race from the lands of our friends. I say this to those who are present, it meant also for those who are absent. Moreover, Christ commands it.

1 Samuel 27:8 -

Now David and his men went up and raided the Geshurites, the Girzites and the Amalekites. (From ancient times these peoples had lived in the land extending to Shur and Egypt.) Whenever David attacked an area, he did not leave a man or woman alive, but took sheep and cattle, donkeys and camels, and clothes.

Numbers 31 -

The LORD said to Moses, "Take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites. After that, you will be gathered to your people."
. . .
Moses was angry with the officers of the army—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—who returned from the battle.

"Have you allowed all the women to live?" he asked them. "They were the ones who followed Balaam's advice and were the means of turning the Israelites away from the LORD in what happened at Peor, so that a plague struck the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
. . .
The plunder remaining from the spoils that the soldiers took was 675,000 sheep, 33 72,000 cattle, 34 61,000 donkeys 35 and 32,000 women who had never slept with a man.

Deuteronomy 13 -

If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods" do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people. Stone him to death, because he tried to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
. . .
If you hear it said about one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you to live in that wicked men have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods" then you must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly. And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. Destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock. Gather all the plunder of the town into the middle of the public square and completely burn the town and all its plunder as a whole burnt offering to the LORD your God. It is to remain a ruin forever, never to be rebuilt.

[SpeedRacer 1]

So, Petraus, Colin Powell, John McCain, the FBI, the USMC and the Army are all a bunch of "pinhead experts" whom we should ignore.


Gotcha.

Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------

[GeorgiaDon 340]

Quote

10/8/85 - Disabled American Leon Klinghoffer is shot in the forehead and thrown overboard, still in his wheelchair, by Pakistan terrorists who boarded the cruise ship Achille Lauro.

Actually, Klinghoffer was murdered by PLO terrorists, not Pakistani (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leon_Klinghoffer). Not that getting the right country to blame is important or anything (as in, when attacked by a bunch of Saudi fanatics, retaliate against, hmmm... Iraq!). They're all just fucking towel-heads anyway, right?

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[nerdgirl 0]

If that is the way you interpret my argument, then you are correct that I have failed in communicating.

Radical Islamists/members of the radical Salafists ‘hate’ me a lot more than you: independent, educated, feisty female!


I could list fatwahs on WMD in Arabic and English, (which I have in English … not sure how Arabic text would appear with dz.com’s software) or discuss trends in improvised dispersal devices (and have on multiple occasions) or present terrorist trends, successes, and emerging challenges in GWOT (global discussion here, rise of AQIM here & here).

The radical Islamists have strategies and tactics. Over the last 30 years the US has had varying strategies and tactics. Some worked better than others. Ignoring it didn’t work. Relying primarily on kinetic means and conventional military operations hasn’t worked (see comments on resurgence of the Taliban and here). That strategy didn’t work for the Soviets in Afghanistan either. The most effective strategies have been counterinsurgency-based, e.g., Philippines against Abu Sayyef Group, i.e., Operation Enduring Freedom-Philippines (OEF-P).

On Tuesday, SecDef Gates briefed the SASC on his initial strategy for Afghanistan:

“As in Iraq, there is no purely military solution in Afghanistan. But it is also clear that we have not had enough troops to provide a baseline level of security [i.e., the first part of SSTR – nerdgirl] in some of the most dangerous areas – a vacuum that increasingly has been filled by the Taliban. That is why the U.S. is considering an increase in our military presence, in conjunction with a dramatic increase in the size of the Afghan security forces. Because of the multi-faceted nature of the fight … all combat forces, whether international or American, will have a high level of counterinsurgency training, which was not always the case.

“In the coming year, I also expect to see more coherence as efforts to improve civil-military coordination gain traction – allowing us to coordinate Provincial Reconstruction Teams in a more holistic fashion, both locally and regionally. And there will be an increased focus on efforts at the district level, where the impact of both our military and rebuilding efforts will be felt more concretely by the Afghan people, who will ultimately be responsible for the future of their nation.”

In his responses to questions,

SecDef Gates “told the Senate Armed Services Committee on Tuesday that he worries that ‘Afghans [will] come to see us as the problem, not the solution, and then we are lost.’ … Gates recalled that ‘the Soviets couldn’t win that war with 120,000 troops and a ruthless approach’ to Afghan civilians, since they adopted ‘the wrong strategy…. Above all, there must be an Afghan face on this war.’

“More important to Gates than increasing U.S. troop levels, he said, was increasing the numbers of Afghan security forces, [i.e., training - nerdgirl] and he said the government of Hamid Karzai supports a U.S.-backed effort to increase the Afghan National Army to 130,000 troops from its current 80,000, though he said he was unsure ‘even that number will be large enough.’ At several points in the hearing, Gates worried that the U.S. was losing support from the Afghan people, saying that the U.S. has ‘lost the strategic communications war’ to the Afghan insurgency about U.S.-caused civilian casualties. Proposing a policy of ‘first apologiz[ing]’ when U.S. troops kill civilians in error, Gates said, ‘We have to get the balance right with the Afghan people or we will lose this war.’”

Apologizing not disregard, not denigrate, & not ridicule.

Strategic communications has been a repeated discussion topic of mine too. It’s *not* about changing attitudes of ‘terrorists’/coddling insurgents/‘hating America’/historical revisionism/naïveté/whatever – it’s recognition that the civilian population provides tacit or direct support of the ‘terrorists’, insurgents, and/or radical Islamists and why & how important that is. Those are the men (mostly) that in some combination we will have to convince, cajole, capture, or kill … and yes, in some cases, as GEN Petraeus suggested, perhaps even negotiate or compromise with … if we are to have any sort of winner. The other policy option to a clear winner is to nuke every Islamic country in the world and exterminate large numbers of radicalized or leaning Islamic people in Europe. The US Islamic population tends to be among the most secular and least radicalized.

We can blow things up like no one else can. Really cool innovative technology for blowing things up is not a problem, but can we re-build them? And rebuild them so that when we leave they don’t crumble/disintegrate completely to become lawless failing/failed states that foster terrorism? The latter is not something for which the majority of US military has been traditionally trained (or in many cases, wants to do).

US foreign and national security policy cannot be treated as a light-switch in which anything other than full-on conventional military intervention is derided, disparaged, or ridiculed.


To put it in lines with the ‘sheepdog’ analogy – I’m one of the humans who train/brief/advise/explain the threats, scenarios, consequences, countermeasures, &/or counter-terrorism strategies to the ‘sheepdogs’ &/or their management, even briefed a Congressional Committee once, e.g., “CongressCritters” & the Committee staff. I usually call them humans rather than dogs tho.’ I like sheepdogs, Rottweiler’s, German shepherds, and mutts --- they’re cute & furry. I prefer adult men, however.

/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[nerdgirl 0]

It does indirectly … even if [NotBond] doesn’t realize it.

And to be fair to him, the post to which he referred was regarding strategy to defeat terrorists or insurgents, i.e., COIN vs ‘scorched-earth’ or Fulda-gap style-conventional military operations. Basically is a ‘scorched-earth’ conventional operation strategy like what the Soviets tried to pursue in Afghanistan or counterinsurgency strategy, like what GEN Petraeus has proposed for Afghanistan, the best strategy for dealing with insurgents or terrorists? (In this forum, I’m not sure we could even get to discussing the law enforcement aspects, regardless of the fact the 40% of terrorists groups have ended through the application of law enforcement strategies … it is fair to note that most of the cases were domestic rather than international terrorists group … & the world doesn’t really have an international police force.)

The issue of torture as a permitted policy relates to the type of strategic communications that SecDef Gates spoke about at the HASC & SASC briefings Tuesday (cited above) … & that he’s been talking about since (at least) November 2007:

“Public relations was invented in the United States, yet we are miserable at communicating to the rest of the world what we are about as a society and a culture, about freedom and democracy, about our policies and our goals. It is just plain embarrassing that al Qaeda is better at communicating its message on the Internet than America.”

And again it’s not about affecting the core 50 al Qa’eda leadership or the Mullah Omah-level members of the Taliban but affecting the tacit supports and the civilians caught in the metaphorical and literal crossfire, whether they be the Sunni Awakening Councils or Pashtu’s in Nangarhar province.

Torture undermines US national strategic interests because it makes it more difficult for the US to execute & implement counterinsurgency operations.

/Marg ... I know as a gurl I'm 'posed to be reading 'Cosmo' or 'Vogue' but I just can't put down the Clausewitz & van Crevald.

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[nerdgirl 0]

Quote

I warned you not to confuse them with facts. But does anyone listen to me? Hell no.

I think we’re both a lil’ right, perhaps?

You’re correct that there are some – but far from all – folks in this forum who are so passionate or angry or convinced or whatever that I can’t explain that they won’t acknowledge facts …

On the other hand, as the poll on ‘partisanship and support of torture’ suggests, there are a good number of Republicans/conservative-leaningfolk who do. [Perhaps ironically, I don’t think JohnRich realized that I created the poll to try to get some data to support my assertion here in defense of conservatives. ] Error bars on SC polls may be high, but it’s a closer ‘semblence to data than pure speculation.

/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[billvon 2,400]

>Nerdly, you sound like smart kid, but you have a lot to learn about this vicious
>enemy.

Please keep discussion on topic and do not go after people personally.

[chuckakers 370]

Quote

>Nerdly, you sound like smart kid, but you have a lot to learn about this vicious
>enemy.

Please keep discussion on topic and do not go after people personally.

I do not consider stating an opinion that I think someone is naive about a specific situation as "going after people personally", but I guess we dz.com'ers stroke our keyboards in moderated world.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[DanG 1]

Have you read anything she's written? I know they are long, but nerdgirl's posts are exceptionally well thought out and informative. Regarding counter-insurgency, and specifically the fight in Afghanistan, she is very well read and remarkably astute.

And as far as calling her naive about threats to national security, that has got to be up there with the kid who told Kirk Verner he was uninformed about docking on a 4-way.

- Dan G

[chuckakers 370]

Quote

Have you read anything she's written? I know they are long, but nerdgirl's posts are exceptionally well thought out and informative. Regarding counter-insurgency, and specifically the fight in Afghanistan, she is very well read and remarkably astute.

And as far as calling her naive about threats to national security, that has got to be up there with the kid who told Kirk Verner he was uninformed about docking on a 4-way.

I suggest you read my post a bit more carefully - or at all. I did not say NerdChicky was naive about national security. I said I believe she has a lot to learn about the vicious nature of the terrorists. There is quite a difference.

Nice analogy about Kirk, though. It reminds me of the guy that told Tommy Piras he should turn on his Cypres and wear a helmet.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[n23x 0]

Quote

I said I believe she has a lot to learn about the vicious nature of the terrorists. There is quite a difference.

Perhaps you should elaborate on your qualifications to make such a distinction. I'm sure we'll all (1) be terribly impressed and (2) recognize that you were right all along.

.jim

"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

[nerdgirl 0]

Quote

I said I believe she has a lot to learn about the vicious nature of the terrorists. There is quite a difference.

It’s not about *me*. Never has been. That’s the point. I’ve never invoked ‘me’ as reference (altho’ I will be speaking at the Capitol for the first time next week … but not about radical Salafists directly).

It’s the direct words and experience of

The USAF officer who led the intelligence and interrogation operations that led to finding and killing al Zarqawi.

GEN Colin Powell, USA (ret)

Senator John McCain

FBI Special Agent Jack Cloonan, who averted a real-ticking time bombing situation with a radical Islamist terrorists

FBI Special Dennis Formel, who obtained the identity of Ramzi bin al Shibh (the “20th hijacker”)

LTC James Corum, USA (ret), military intelligence, he also was part of the Coalition Military Assistance and Training Team in Iraq in 2003 & 2004

Bob Baer, retired CIA operative

David Becker, DIA

Brian Boetig, FBI

Michael Kremlacek USA Intelligence

Robert McFadden, former CIFA (it was a DoD field intelligence agency)

C.A. Morgan III, Intelligence Technology Innovation Center (aka ITIC, part of CIA, unless they’re ‘officially’ ODNI now)

Kenneth Rollins, Joint Personnel Recovery Agency (another DoD agency)

Scott Shumate, former CIFA

Andre Simons, FBI

the Marine Corps Interrogator Translator

Other than Sen John McCain (recently) & Morgan those guys are all operators and/or interrogators.

Like any model, strategy needs accurate data to generate accurate results.
The alternative model for developing strategy is the one Doug Feith used, which ties well with your Tom Piras reference.

Since you assert authority, on what operational basis do you dispute them?

/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[chuckakers 370]

Quote

Quote

I said I believe she has a lot to learn about the vicious nature of the terrorists. There is quite a difference.

Perhaps you should elaborate on your qualifications to make such a distinction. I'm sure we'll all (1) be terribly impressed and (2) recognize that you were right all along.

.jim

They cut people's heads off for being the "wrong" religion!!! Aside from watching the f*cking news, what the hell other qualifications do I need? Do you not see the brutal nature this enemy????????

When you don't have a valid argument on the issue, just resort to questioning the validity of your opponents argument.

Go do your homework, kid.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX