Atheist advert provokes complaint

[georgerussia 0]

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I asked your god to end suffering, pain, war, and to stop babies starving to death. What would be the "right" motives then?

Usually a typical Christian reply to this is "God has its own ways and we shall not try to understand them as we cannot anyway". Which basically means everything they do might make no sense at all, and it's still possible that at the end only married gay people will go to Heaven. After all, it would be just one of those "own ways".

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[maadmax 0]

Currently there is an enourmous ammount of evidence to suggest that gods DO NOT exist, and it is ever increasing, and not a shred of evidence to suggest they DO exist.

However I am much easier to please then you, I will change my mind when there is ONE piece of evidence to suggest your god or any god exists.

[maadmax 0]

Usually a typical Christian reply to this is "God has its own ways and we shall not try to understand them as we cannot anyway". Which basically means everything they do might make no sense at all, and it's still possible that at the end only married gay people will go to Heaven. After all, it would be just one of those "own ways".

[georgerussia 0]

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Well then, the moral of your story is pretty clear. Don't waste time on things you can't change or understand.

There is no moral in my story. It just shows a major flaw in the way some Christians justify their beliefs, and why everyone better follow them.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[rehmwa 2]

Global warming doesn't exist
It does exist, but we don't cause it
It good for us

God doesn't exist
If he did, he doesn't bother with us, we're on our own
Well, he does, but I wouldn't change my actions

I love religions

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[br0k3n 0]

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Currently there is an enourmous ammount of evidence to suggest that gods DO NOT exist, and it is ever increasing, and not a shred of evidence to suggest they DO exist.

However I am much easier to please then you, I will change my mind when there is ONE piece of evidence to suggest your god or any god exists.

I don't know about you, but the evidence is there. Just look within.


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[shropshire 0]

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Currently there is an enourmous ammount of evidence to suggest that gods DO NOT exist, and it is ever increasing, and not a shred of evidence to suggest they DO exist.

However I am much easier to please then you, I will change my mind when there is ONE piece of evidence to suggest your god or any god exists.

I don't know about you, but the evidence is there. Just look within.


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That's just plain bollocks

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[maadmax 0]

Head...Wall....Bangs...

not my words but sums it up rather nicely...

[sic]So, too, for the "feeling" that God exists. This is no different than the "feeling" I once had that the Tao governs the universe, or the "feeling" others have had that aliens visit them, the spirits of the dead talk to them, or several gods and nature spirits live all around them. People have "felt" the existence of so many contradictory things that we know "feeling" something is the poorest possible evidence we can have. Most people "feel" something completely different than we do, and since there is no way to tell whether your feeling is correct and theirs is wrong, it is just as likely that theirs is correct and yours is wrong. And since there are a million completely different "feelings" and only one can be true, it follows that the odds are worse than a million to one against your feeling being true. So "feeling" that God exists fails to meet even a minimal standard of evidence

[maadmax 0]

I don't know about you, but the evidence is there. Just look within.




That's just plain bollocks

Excuse me for my lack of English diction, but what does that expression mean?

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[br0k3n 0]

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Head...Wall....Bangs...

not my words but sums it up rather nicely...

[sic]So, too, for the "feeling" that God exists. This is no different than the "feeling" I once had that the Tao governs the universe, or the "feeling" others have had that aliens visit them, the spirits of the dead talk to them, or several gods and nature spirits live all around them. People have "felt" the existence of so many contradictory things that we know "feeling" something is the poorest possible evidence we can have. Most people "feel" something completely different than we do, and since there is no way to tell whether your feeling is correct and theirs is wrong, it is just as likely that theirs is correct and yours is wrong. And since there are a million completely different "feelings" and only one can be true, it follows that the odds are worse than a million to one against your feeling being true. So "feeling" that God exists fails to meet even a minimal standard of evidence

I find nothing in your quote to disagree with. But apart from an inward spiritual pursuit, knowledge of God is unattainable , as is manifestly obvious by a lot of the posts here. I can only speak for myself, but I have always had an intense interest even craving to know God. I have spent a good part of my life creating my own value system and reality with less than optimal results. As I have adopted Gods viewpoint and reality, the insatiable need I felt within my self awareness has been quieted and satisfied. Right or wrong, better or worse, it is truly a blessing in my life.
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[beowulf 1]

That is really spot on.

I grew up being taught christianity and really tried to believe in it. But the more I delved in and questioned the less I believed. Now the whole idea of deitys is just too ridiculous to believe in.

[maadmax 0]

This is where you and I differ considerably, I have quite the opposite, I have absolutely no craving to know god, which I feel is truly a blessing in my life.

Many consider this to be simply biological, the "god gene". However this does pose a tricky theory for the god followers... however I post this knowing full well that it will simply be dismissed and ignored by you in your typical close minded approach to your belief in god.

.... Weak theistic evidence, then, provides strong atheistic proof.

No worries.
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[br0k3n 0]

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This is where you and I differ considerably, I have quite the opposite, I have absolutely no craving to know god, which I feel is truly a blessing in my life.

Many consider this to be simply biological, the "god gene". However this does pose a tricky theory for the god followers... however I post this knowing full well that it will simply be dismissed and ignored by you in your typical close minded approach to your belief in god.

.... Weak theistic evidence, then, provides strong atheistic proof.

No worries.
...

Perception isnt good enough, your "feeling" that God exists is no different than the "feeling" others have had that aliens visit them, the spirits of the dead talk to them, or several gods and nature spirits live all around them. People have "felt" the existence of so many contradictory things that we know "feeling" something is the poorest possible evidence we can have. Most people "feel" something completely different than we do, and since there is no way to tell whether your feeling is correct and theirs is wrong, it is just as likely that theirs is correct and yours is wrong. And since there are a million completely different "feelings" and only one can be true, it follows that the odds are worse than a million to one against your feeling being true. So "feeling" that God exists fails to meet even a minimal standard of evidence.

Also as a loving parent, I would think it a horrible failure on my part if I didn't educate my children well, and supervise them kindly, teaching them how to live safe and well, and warning them of unknown or unexpected dangers. If they asked me to butt out I might. But if they didn't, it would be unconscionable to ignore them, to offer them no comfort, protection, or advice. Indeed, society would deem me fit for prison if I did. It would be felony criminal neglect. Yet that is God: An absentee mom--who lets kids get kidnapped and murdered or run over by cars, who does nothing to teach them what they need to know, who never sits down like a loving parent to have an honest chat with them, and who would let them starve if someone else didn't intervene. As this is unconscionable, almost any idea of a god that fits the actual evidence of the world is unconscionable. And any such deity could never be the Christian God

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--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

[maadmax 0]

Also as a loving parent, I would think it a horrible failure on my part if I didn't educate my children well, and supervise them kindly, teaching them how to live safe and well, and warning them of unknown or unexpected dangers. If they asked me to butt out I might. But if they didn't, it would be unconscionable to ignore them, to offer them no comfort, protection, or advice. Indeed, society would deem me fit for prison if I did. It would be felony criminal neglect. Yet that is God: An absentee mom--who lets kids get kidnapped and murdered or run over by cars, who does nothing to teach them what they need to know, who never sits down like a loving parent to have an honest chat with them, and who would let them starve if someone else didn't intervene. As this is unconscionable, almost any idea of a god that fits the actual evidence of the world is unconscionable. And any such deity could never be the Christian God

[br0k3n 0]

God has been all the things a loving parent could be

Well you must be special then because he was far from "all things a loving parent could be" when he let all these children die..

As a parent myself I will do anything and everything to ensure the wellbeing of my son, this is one of the most basic functions of a parent.

However for these kids, god let them die...

Cases of Childhood Deaths Due to Parental Religious Objection to Necessary Medical Care.

1. Seth Ian Glaser, 17 months, died March 28, 1984, in Culver City, California of h-flu meningitis.

2. Natalie Rippberger, eight months, died December 9, 1984 in Santa Rosa, California, of h-flumeningitis.

3.Shauntay Walker, age four, died March 8, 1984, in Sacramento, California, of h-flu meningitis.

4.Amy Hermanson, age seven, died September 30, 1986, in Sarasota, Florida, of untreated juvenile onset diabetes.

5.Ian Lundman, age 11, died May 9, 1989, in Minneapolis, Minnesota of medically untreated juvenile onset diabetes.

6.Ian Burdick, age 15, died November 10, 1987, in Sherman Oaks, California, of diabetes without medical care.

7.Robyn Twitchell, age two, died in April, 1986, in Boston, Massachusetts, of a bowel obstruction.

8.Elizabeth Ashley King, age 12, died June 5, 1988, in Phoenix, Arizona, of bone cancer.

9. Kimberly Sartore, age one, died in 1969 in Alaska of medically untreated meningitis.

10.Matthew Swan, 16 months, died in 1977 in Detroit, Michigan, of h-flu meningitis.

11. Lisa Sheridan, age five, died in 1967 in Cape Cod, Massachusetts, after a three week battle with pneumonia without medical care.

12. Clayton Scott Zimmern, age nine, died in 1968 in Park Forest South, Illinois, of injuries sustained when he was struck by a car.

13.Michael Schram, age 12, from Mercer Island, Washington, died in 1979 from a ruptured appendix after several days of prayer and "spiritual healing."

14. Ronald Rowan, age 11, from Tallmadge, Ohio, died in 1979 as a result of extreme dehydration

15. Andrew Pinkham, age three, from Orinda, California, died from pneumonia after his parents refused to take him to a doctor because of their religious beliefs.

16. Debra Ann Kupsch, age 9, from Wisconsin, contracted diphtheria at a Christian Science Camp in Colorado, where she was sick for one week. She came in contact with other unvaccinated children, and died shortly after her arrival home.

17. Justin Barnhart, age two, died September 1981, in Beaver Valley, Pennsyslvania of a Wilm's tumor which grew larger than a volleyball in the child's abdomen.

18. Five children of the Winterbourne family of suburban Philadelphia died of pneumonia between 1971 and 1980 without receiving medical attention.

19. Melinda Sue Friedenbeger, age 18 weeks, died of starvation and dehydration.

20. Clayton Nixon, age eight, also died in Altoona, Pennsylvania, on January 6, 1991, of dehydration and malnutrition after contracting ear and sinus infections which caused continuous vomiting.

21. Michael David Boehmer, four days old, died March 15, 1990, in Lake City, Florida, of a pulmonary hemorrhage. The parents did not obtain medical attention for their son,.

22.Libby Cooke, four days old, died December, 1978, in Brandon, South Dakota, without medical attention after a four day struggle with premature lungs.

23. Infant McDowell was born dead in January 1979 in Billings, Montana, after her mother had been in labor for three days. The 9 lb. Child was born dead in a bathtub.

24.Infant Ruzicka was born dead in February 1981 in Brandon, South Dakota. After the mother, Cathy Ruzicka, lay in labor for four days, she went into convulsions, and ended any chance at life for her 7 ½ lb. baby. .

25. Sarah Handy, born prematurely, died in July 1981 in Valley Springs, South Dakota, of bacterial pneumonia.

26. Jason Lockhart, age nine, of Enid Oklahoma, died of a ruptured appendix due to parental religious beliefs.

27.Desiree Camren, age three, of Cushing, Oklahoma, died February 1987 after a week's illness due to lack of medical care.

28. Angela Sweet, age seven, of Olathe, Colorado, died June 1990 of peritonitis, seven weeks after rupturing her appendix. The parents, David and Barbara Sweet, refused to get medical care for their daughter because of their allegiance to their church.

29.Travis Drake, age 14, of western Colorado, died in 1982, several days after his appendix ruptured. .

30.Lukas Long, a newborn baby, of rural Cory, Colorado, died in August 1987. Lukas was born at 8:30 a.m.: the mother was attended by unlicensed midwives. At 11:30 a.m. the baby began having breathing problems, and the parents, David and Raya Long, called in the church elders to pray for a healing. The baby died between 4 and 6:30 p.m. "We believe in divine healing and trust in God," explained the baby's grandmother.

31.Saundra Arnold, age 13, died in the 1960's in California after being ill 18 days with an intensinal blockage.

32. Jordan Northrup, age four months, died January 1991 in Redding, California, of meningitis and pneumonia.

33.Juliana Keys, six months, of Columbia City, Indiana, died of an untreated abdominal infection caused by a twisted bowel. The parents did not obtain medical care for the child due to their religious beliefs.

34.Joel Romine, 20 months, of Indiana, died in March 1989 of emphysema, a complication of pheumonia. The parents, Daniel and Diana Romine, refused to obtain medical care for their son; they told the coroner that they "do not believe in seeking medical treatment and instead prayed at home for the child's recovery."

35. John David Ricks, five months, of Kimmel, Indiana, died in April 1990 of untreated bacterial memingitis.

36. Sean Woodrun, six months, of Nobles, Indiana, died in April 1990 of untreated bronchial pneumonia, after being sick for several days. In June, Roberta and Robin Woodrun plead guilty to withholding medical care form their baby. They were subsequently sentenced for criminal recklessness and reckless homicide and received three and four years

37. Allyson Bergmann, nine months, of South Bend, Indiana, died of untreated meningitis. The parents were prosecuted for this death in 1984. .

38. Carla Northrup, a baby girl, died in 1983 of pneumonia.

39. Joel Winkelman, three weeks old, of Ohio, died of pneumonia without receiving medical treatment. The parents, David and Joy Winkelman, stated their belief: "that the best physician is Jesus."

Im sure there are many many more...

So why did he let them all die, is it perhaps becuase he might just not exist?????

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--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

[maadmax 0]

Well you must be special then because he was far from "all things a loving parent could be" when he let all these children die..


So why did he let them all die, is it perhaps becuase he might just not exist?????

[jakee 1,257]

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I can't help but believe that children have a special place in Heaven when they die.

So if I'd been a cot death or whatever, I'd get a free pass, but just because I survived to maturity I need to follow all these nonsensical rules?

Why do the kids get special treatment? That's not particularly fair, is it?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[maadmax 0]

So if I'd been a cot death or whatever, I'd get a free pass, but just because I survived to maturity I need to follow all these nonsensical rules?

Why do the kids get special treatment? That's not particularly fair, is it?

[br0k3n 0]

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Well you must be special then because he was far from "all things a loving parent could be" when he let all these children die..


So why did he let them all die, is it perhaps becuase he might just not exist?????

Death is certainly a sad event because we can no longer be with the ones we love. But death is very much a part of our experience here. Death as a result of criminal behavior should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, since only God has the right to number our days. I can't help but believe that children have a special place in Heaven when they die. The death of a child is hard to understand, but it doesn't stop me from seeking what I may understand.

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[br0k3n 0]

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So if I'd been a cot death or whatever, I'd get a free pass, but just because I survived to maturity I need to follow all these nonsensical rules?

Why do the kids get special treatment? That's not particularly fair, is it?

"To whom much is given , much is expected." I think innocence or lack of it in children has something to do with reaching an age of accountability. There really aren't any rules. You can do and think what ever you want. There are directions though, if you have a particular destination in mind.

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[jakee 1,257]

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So if I'd been a cot death or whatever, I'd get a free pass, but just because I survived to maturity I need to follow all these nonsensical rules?

Why do the kids get special treatment? That's not particularly fair, is it?

"To whom much is given , much is expected."

[maadmax 0]

OMG...how big is your bag of excuses!!!!!! why do you insist on defending a baby killer...i just dont get it... in one sentance you are saying that god is a loving parent and in another you are defending him over the murder if children???????

Also its not hard to understand, every single child in that list died as a DIRECT result of faith in someone who isnt there. EVERY single one would have most likely survived if that had recieved reall medical aid.

[maadmax 0]

"To whom much is given , much is expected
But the kids are getting given more than I am! (Assuming the conventional view that heaven is nicer then earth)

[br0k3n 0]

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OMG...how big is your bag of excuses!!!!!! why do you insist on defending a baby killer...i just dont get it... in one sentance you are saying that god is a loving parent and in another you are defending him over the murder if children???????

Also its not hard to understand, every single child in that list died as a DIRECT result of faith in someone who isnt there. EVERY single one would have most likely survived if that had recieved reall medical aid.

Please understand, I recognize that you are asking a lot of good questions, that I have also asked, that demand answers. The only problem is that in some cases there are no clear cut answers, we will have to wait for clarification at a future time. In other cases it is criminal neglect by deluded parents trying to create god in their image. What I am saying is death as a result of human evil is very bad, death from the Hand of God is good, since it is part of our experience here. I don't see where death makes God evil. Death is a part of His plan for us. It is just the next step in the progression.

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[maadmax 0]

How can you not question the existence of your god, when all you have is excuses for his failures?