kallend 1,644 #26 October 25, 2008 Quote I don't think so. A few people left in disgust under Clinton - emphasis on the few. Many people leave in disgust for many other reasons not related to politics, but at the service they served itself. Many more leave because they don't like the lifestyle or wish to do other things in life. Many choose to stay. The military is a microcosm of society as a whole and there are more Obama supporters in the military than many believe. As a whole, I'd normally put the military (gut feel) at about 75/25 Republican Democrat. I'd say the # is going to be 60/40 for McCain/Obama - gut feel again. If putting your money represents where your mouth is, it's 14/86 McCain/Obama. Military donations to Obama are swamping those to McCain.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #27 October 25, 2008 Military pay increase percentage per year. I don't see a goose egg anywhere during President Reagan's two terms. 1977 - 4.8 1978 - 7.1 1979 - 5.5 1980 - 7.0 1981 - 11.7 1982 - 14.3 1983 - 4.0 1984 - 4.0 1985 - 4.0 1986 - 3.0 1987 - 3.0 1988 - 2.0 1989 - 4.1 1990 - 3.6 1991 - 4.1 1992 - 4.2 1993 - 3.7 1994 - 2.2 1995 - 2.6 1996 - 2.4 1997 - 3.0 1998 - 2.8 1999 - 3.6 2000 - 6.2 2001 - 4.1 2002 - 6.9 2003 - 4.7 2004 - 4.2 2005 - 3.5 2006 - 3.1 2007 - 2.7 2008 - 3.5 2009 - 3.9 Also during President Reagan's Administration the Montgomery GI Bill was enacted.www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #28 October 25, 2008 Looks like the mass exodus can be blamed on inadequate pay increases in a booming economy based on this. With the way the economy is, military recruitment and retention should improve under McCain or Obama.www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #29 October 25, 2008 QuoteGood point, but I will point out what happened with many I personally knew during Clintons last few years. The troops will fight, but they will not embrace the shit that will be forced upon them by his administration. I would ask some of our current service types to chime in, but that may not be a good idea for many reasons Many won't leave because of who is in office; not everybody will punish themselves to punish someone else. But your reference during the Clinton years were right on. We hated being guinea pigs to silliness and the peptol bismol was sold in Ships' stores. But people still will not leave. The economy sucks. Some servicemen believe in their jobs, and everybody has had experience with a toss-off as a boss. We'll adapt, overcome, and look in envy as the next generation or so enlists to a service under a Republican._____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #30 October 25, 2008 QuoteGood point, but I will point out what happened with many I personally knew during Clintons last few years. The troops will fight, but they will not embrace the shit that will be forced upon them by his administration. I would ask some of our current service types to chime in, but that may not be a good idea for many reasons The problem is that you'll hang out with people who believe what you believe. I was commissioned in the Clinton administration. The mass exodus was not due to the Commander in Chief, but rather to defense cutbacks because the Cold War was over. I do not doubt what you have been told. Not in the slightest. But we all hang out with theose who think like we do. Of course, I don't hang out with anybody, because nobody's politicis are as screwy as mine). My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,644 #31 October 25, 2008 Quote Of course, I don't hang out with anybody, because nobody's politicis are as screwy as mine). I'm sure you like to think that, but, really, who wants to hang out with a lawyer?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #32 October 25, 2008 QuoteQuote Of course, I don't hang out with anybody, because nobody's politicis are as screwy as mine). I'm sure you like to think that, but, really, who wants to hang out with a lawyer? Other lawyers. Not even THEY will hang out with me. Except to ask me how I got such a hot wife. (If you think I'm kidding - I'm not). My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #33 October 25, 2008 QuoteMilitary pay increase percentage per year. I don't see a goose egg anywhere during President Reagan's two terms. 1977 - 4.8 1978 - 7.1 1979 - 5.5 1980 - 7.0 1981 - 11.7 1982 - 14.3 1983 - 4.0 1984 - 4.0 1985 - 4.0 1986 - 3.0 1987 - 3.0 1988 - 2.0 1989 - 4.1 1990 - 3.6 1991 - 4.1 1992 - 4.2 1993 - 3.7 1994 - 2.2 1995 - 2.6 1996 - 2.4 1997 - 3.0 1998 - 2.8 1999 - 3.6 2000 - 6.2 2001 - 4.1 2002 - 6.9 2003 - 4.7 2004 - 4.2 2005 - 3.5 2006 - 3.1 2007 - 2.7 2008 - 3.5 2009 - 3.9 Also during President Reagan's Administration the Montgomery GI Bill was enacted. Well that has to be wrong, Lucky told us so. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #34 October 25, 2008 Interesting. And if you have those #'s available, then you should be able to tell us how many members of the military contributed to either campaign and show what percentage of the military contributed $$ to either. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,644 #35 October 25, 2008 Quote Interesting. And if you have those #'s available, then you should be able to tell us how many members of the military contributed to either campaign and show what percentage of the military contributed $$ to either. biz.yahoo.com/ap/080814/military_donations.html The 6:1 ratio is overseas military.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrophyHusband 0 #36 October 26, 2008 QuotePolicies such as don't ask don't tell were certainly factors that negatively affected morale i was in the navy from 92-98. we joked about "don't ask, don't tell", but for the most part nobody seemed to really care. in "a" school two known lesbians were caught diddling each other in a car in the parking lot. one was a raging bitch that nobody liked and was kicked out under the policy, while the oher girl was a sweetheart that everyone loved. she was let off easy. i got out because the lifestyle sucked. we had one co who was an insane tyrant. cleanliness was of more importance than anything else. more than once i was pulled away from fixing broken equipment to clean. i saw officers who's career was ruined because of dirt found in some near impossible to reach crevace. i saw officers and 20 plus year cheifs and senior chiefs scrubbing shitters. i did not want to be a part of an organization that treats its leadership like that. even before he took command, moral sucked. it just went further down from there. my next captain was the greatest officer i ever served under. if they were all like him, i would still be in, but by then the damage was done. nothing would have made me stay. "Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama www.kjandmegan.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrophyHusband 0 #37 October 26, 2008 Quote exit interviews with departing officers seem to indicate a growing disenchantment with military life." "But the problem isn't one of numbers alone: the Army also appears to be losing its most gifted young officers. In 2005, internal Army memos started to warn of the 'disproportionate loss of high-potential, high-performance junior leaders.' Internal surveys show that the percentage of officers who cite 'amount of time separated from family' as a primary factor for leaving the Army has at least doubled since 2002, to more than 30 percent." my wife is a major in the air force and these reasons apply to her as well. after her commintment is up in four year, she will be getting out after 11 years of service. we are disenchanted with military life. it is what it is though, there are certain aspects of being in the military that just goes with the territory. if we didn't have children, it wouldn't be a big deal, but to have to uproot an entire family every 3 to 4 years, be separated from aunts, uncle, cousins, and grandparents, and have a hard time just going to doctor and dentist appointments because you have no one to watch children gets old. these are just part of life in the military. you either deal with it, or get out when your time is up. my wife is seeing the same thing in the air force that the army is experiencing. the best and brightest are getting out, leaving what's left over to move up the ranks and run things. this makes the overall quality of leadership decline. whether you are a civilian or in the military, you can always expect one guy above you to be an idiot, but when you add a just a second idiot to the mix, life can get pretty misserable. time away from family is another factor that makes us want to change our life. while she hasn't yet been tasked to deploy, she does work most weekends, late into almost every evening, and many times overnight. we understand why that is, but our children don't. we have other reasons for wanting to get out, but they are more specific to the air force medical corps, and not the military in general. none of then have to do with who's the commander in chief. "Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama www.kjandmegan.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #38 October 26, 2008 So the #'s aren't really that telling at all then, given the small magnitude of people who have decided to contribute. The military makes up only a small portion of total federal employees. Too bad it's often the most politicized portion when speaking of elections. I do not like the political ball that military benefits & pay have become at all, truth be told. Makes me think of the Janissaries sometimes - in a very abstract way; we're nowhere near that, but it still comes to mind sometimes when pay & benefits issues come into the common discourse. Morons come out of the woodwork to attack anyone that doesn't support any increase in benefits or pay, regardless of structure or budgetary implications. That is not a good atmosphere for intelligent discussion. DoD plays an overly dominant role within the executive branch. I'd like to see Interior and Energy take the dominant roles along with Transportation. A balance approaching parity between departments would be a great thing for the country I believe. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,644 #39 October 26, 2008 Quote Morons come out of the woodwork to attack anyone that doesn't support any increase in benefits or pay, regardless of structure or budgetary implications. That is not a good atmosphere for intelligent discussion. Morons also come out of the woodwork to attack any proposal to address realistically the gross imbalance between government revenues and government spending, but that's another thread.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #40 October 26, 2008 'tis indeed. You could begin it with your recommendations for reductions in entitlement programs and agreement that everything should be on the table for elimination or reduction. But we all know you won't do that - at least not in a serious manner. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #41 October 27, 2008 QuoteIf Obama wins as most of the media and the liberals predict, will there be a mass exodus of Officers as well as senior NCO's? Well? Who knows ? Stay tuned and we'll see. All I can say is that there were a lot of very happy looking military enlisted types crowding around him for pics in Iraq. Some of them were even white..... Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timber 3 #42 October 27, 2008 Once Mr. Barak Obama is allowed to steal the election with the likes of ACORN and other radical organizations and other ignorant people. Our country is in serious trouble!!! Mr. Barney Frank has called for a 25% reduction in the Military budget!!! Not to mention the security of our nation from emerging threats but there will be massive layoffs in Military and Defense Contractors. I will undoubtedly be laid off. If Mr. Obama is into redistribution of wealth and will make sure the government will take care of my every need. I guess I will spend more time at the DZ flying and doing tandems!! Oh Wait because of raising taxes on all those small businesses and the price of fuel which will go back up soon and the fact that disposable incomes dwindled my DZ will probably close.!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,644 #43 October 27, 2008 Quote Once Mr. Barak Obama is allowed to steal the election with the likes of ACORN and other radical organizations and other ignorant people. Our country is in serious trouble!!! Mr. Barney Frank has called for a 25% reduction in the Military budget!!! Not to mention the security of our nation from emerging threats but there will be massive layoffs in Military and Defense Contractors. I will undoubtedly be laid off. If Mr. Obama is into redistribution of wealth and will make sure the government will take care of my every need. I guess I will spend more time at the DZ flying and doing tandems!! Oh Wait because of raising taxes on all those small businesses and the price of fuel which will go back up soon and the fact that disposable incomes dwindled my DZ will probably close.!! So funny, and sad at the same time.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,644 #44 October 27, 2008 Quote 'tis indeed. You could begin it with your recommendations for reductions in entitlement programs and agreement that everything should be on the table for elimination or reduction. But we all know you won't do that - at least not in a serious manner. Farm subsidies gone. (The Feds pay a friend of mine to grow NOTHING). Tax breaks gone for all special interests - all corporations treated the same. Crack down on small business tax cheating (over 50% of all tax cheating comes from small business owners according to IRS). There's over $150Billion right there. "Defense" spending brought down to only the level of the next 5 nations combined, instead of all other nations combined. If you seriously believe anyone is going to cut back on Social Security and Medicare, with the boomers having paid in for decades and now coming up to retirement, you need to lay of the tequila for a while.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sfc 0 #45 October 27, 2008 Quote Once Mr. Barak Obama is allowed to steal the election with the likes of ACORN and other radical organizations and other ignorant people. Priceless Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterblaster72 0 #46 October 27, 2008 Quote...there will be massive layoffs in Military and Defense Contractors. As if the defense contractors haven't gotten enough of our money as of yet. If voting for Obama surely meant less tax payer $$$ for the defense contractors, I might vote for him on that issue alone. Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #47 October 27, 2008 "The report tracked donations of $200 or more. It found that 859 members of the military donated a total of $335,536 to Obama. McCain received $280,513 from 558 military donors. Among soldiers serving overseas at the time of their donations, 134 gave a total of $60,642 to Obama while 26 gave a total of $10,665 to McCain. That was less than the amount received by Republican Ron Paul, who collected $45,512 from 99 soldiers serving abroad, the report said." It is not a large number sampling and my next question has a sampling that is even smaller (2). How many of the donations where done on behalf of a service member overseas? I didn't see any thing in the article about that. But recently when doing a scout for an upcoming shoot we ended up some how on politics, the two spouses said they each donated to Obama's campaign on behalf of thier spouse over seas, because he promised to bring them home. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,426 #48 October 27, 2008 >Once Mr. Barak Obama is allowed to steal the election . . . Add in Ayers and Barack Hussein Obama and you have almost the perfect anti-Obama diatribe. >Mr. Barney Frank has called for a 25% reduction in the Military budget! Reduced spending is a good thing. Fewer wars are a good thing. >there will be massive layoffs in Military and Defense Contractors. Good. They can get jobs in the emerging renewable-energy markets; they need the people. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #49 October 27, 2008 so you're unwilling to even start, eh? As I suspected... Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,644 #50 October 27, 2008 Quote so you're unwilling to even start, eh? As I suspected... Farm supports ARE entitlement programs. Some examples of entitlement programs at the federal level in the US would include Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, most Veterans' Administration programs, federal employee and military retirement plans, unemployment compensation, food stamps, and agricultural price support programs. Which would you cut?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
