Andy9o8 0 #51 August 10, 2008 QuoteVladimir Putin is no longer at the reigns of the USSR. Now we have some clown at the wheel... The only thing Medvedev, who you correctly call "the clown at the wheel", is at the wheel of, is a little toy car with a button in the middle that goes "squeak!" Putin is still very much at the reins in Russia. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #52 August 10, 2008 QuoteThe same statistics but not as a percentage but in dollar figures... the US outspends its nearest rival (China) by close to 5x US' expenditure: $276,700,000,000.00 China's expediture: $55,910,000,000.00 edit to include link: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/mil_exp_dol_fig-military-expenditures-dollar-figure Given the fact that China has the largest standing army, is not voluntary, I submit that comparing the defense budget of a communist regime to a federal republic isn't entirely on point. The fact that they're 2nd in expenditures, their bang-for-the-buck is impressive. Back to Russia/Georgia, Ukraine's declaration to block the Russian navy is the tipping point that concerns me. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ukraine_russia_georgia;_ylt=Anbr9h3O0xOCJlA0Soz9JmuWwvIESo I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #53 August 10, 2008 Quote Vladimir Putin is no longer at the reigns of the USSR. Now wh have some clown at the wheel of the country who obviously took notes from Wyatt Earp and Doc Holiday who have done just about anything they wanted for almost the last 6 years, .... Wrong. Putin still is prime minister, Medvedew is president, purportedly he's just a puppet on Putins string. edited to add: Quote Wyatt Earp and Doc Holiday who have done just about anything they wanted for almost the last xx years... Doesn't that sound familiar to you? dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #54 August 10, 2008 QuoteVladimir Putin is no longer at the reigns of the USSR. Officially, yes. Do you really believe that practically and meaningfully tho'? I'm genuinely curious as to your opinion. VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #55 August 10, 2008 QuoteI'd say the US doesn't want to "control" Georgia as much as it wants to counter Russia in the US/Russia chess game .... by aligning itself politically with Georgia. Concur to some part. Also would suggest that there are larger implications for the doctrine asserting the value of democractic governments, particularly for countries located in geo-strategically important regions of the world. Georgia has been moving -- albeit not without occasional sidesteps -- toward a more transparent democracy and democratic transition of power. It's touted as evidence of success of this political doctrine. Contrast that with the situation in Russia, in which most challenge how much power Putin has relinquished .. or with the situation in China, in which an authoritative regime transitioned control (from Jiang Zemin to Hu Jintao in 2002). VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Froggy 0 #56 August 10, 2008 WTF is Russia doing? Well, for starters, protecting their neighbors, many of whom are in fact Russian citizens, from GENOCIDE (that's, BTW, is WTF Georgia is doing). Now, WTF is USA doing? Easy, too: everything it can to escalate the conflict (while pretending to be doing just the opposite, of course) to a point when it would be possible to put NATO "peacekeeping forces" in the region, and then establish and maintain full military presense there. Georgia attacked Tshinvali at night. They were not hitting military targets (e.g. rebels) -- they dropped Grad missiles on a sleeping city, killing up to 2000 civilians. And now the Russia's response is called "invasion" and "aggression"?!? The terms "sovereign country" and "respect for territorial integrity" in modern days became jokes when NATO started bombing Belgrade years ago. When I hear the moron in the White House (how the hell he became the leader of the current #1 world power -- TWICE! -- is beyond me, but I digress) using those terms commenting on the events in Ossetia, it makes me grin in pain... And, BTW, speaking of puppets... Medvedev may be a Putin's puppet (I mostly agree with that), but Saakashvili is most definitely a puppet of the White House. He would not have done anything like this without direct or indirect (but nevertheless very clear) approval from his "big daddy". Only a complete idiot wouldn't see through this... -------------- We were not born to fly. And all we can do is to try not to fall... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
algboy 0 #57 August 10, 2008 I'd have to presume that if the neocons, corporate media, Israel, McCain and Condi Rice are all whining about Russia "invading" Georgia, then Russia must be the good guys in this instance. Here's a curious development from Interfax, Aug. 10, 2008: The authorities in South Ossetia have said that foreign mercenaries are fighting on the side of the Georgian forces. "I have been told that there were both black guys and completely fair-skinned guys there. The black ones are, probably, Americans, while the fair-skinned ones are, possibly, Ukrainian mercenaries," South Ossetian foreign minister Murat Dzhioyev told Interfax on Sunday [10 August]. At the same time, he stressed that currently "it is impossible to exactly identify the citizenship of the dead mercenaries". "But we will try to involve investigative bodies in getting the citizenship of these mercenaries confirmed by documents," Dzhioyev noted. More updates as they emerge . . . .“Keep your elbow up!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Froggy 0 #58 August 10, 2008 QuoteI'd have to presume that if the neocons, corporate media, Israel, McCain and Condi Rice are all whining about Russia "invading" Georgia, then Russia must be the good guys in this instance. Right on! 'nuff said...-------------- We were not born to fly. And all we can do is to try not to fall... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,426 #59 August 11, 2008 > I'd have to presume that if the neocons, corporate media, Israel, >McCain and Condi Rice are all whining about Russia "invading" Georgia, >then Russia must be the good guys in this instance. Well, McCain has good reason to side with Georgia. His top foreign policy adviser, Randy Scheunemann, was a paid lobbyist for Georgia up until a few months ago. If Russia can't pony up some dough to buy their own lobbyists, why should they expect to be treated well? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #60 August 11, 2008 Is this an admission from you that Sandy 'socks' Berger pushed EJC's regime to nicer ties with the Chinese? Fits quite in with the Johnny Huang into criminal activity with OwlGore in the infamous iced tea caper, eh? I think the Georgians were wrong to attack South Ossettia and think the Russians have been quite wrong in bombing Georgian civilian targets as well. A plausible hypothesis would be that Putin had a deep mole or three encourage such an attack to give Russian an excuse to re-annex some of the USSR's former territory. WIth the Baku-Tibilisi-Ceyhon pipeline within its borders, Georgia is a very important nation. They purportedly have some excellent cuisine as well. I feel sorry for the Georgian people. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,426 #61 August 11, 2008 > Is this an admission from you that Sandy 'socks' Berger pushed EJC's >regime to nicer ties with the Chinese? Nope, has nothing to do with that. >Fits quite in with the Johnny Huang into criminal activity with OwlGore in the >infamous iced tea caper, eh? Nope, see above. >and think the Russians have been quite wrong in bombing Georgian >civilian targets as well. They were as right as we were to attack civilian targets in Iraq. (Even though both the US and Russia deny that those were targets.) From the Russian's perspective, they are defending Russians from Georgian aggression. >I feel sorry for the Georgian people. They are the real losers in all of this, as the innocent always are when countries play political games like this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #62 August 11, 2008 I must not follow your reasoning, then. EJC's man, Sandy Berger, was a paid Chinese lobbyist. John McCain's man was a paid Georgian lobbyist. As per yourself, McCain has good reason to side with Georgia because of their past association with one of his advisors. One might deduce that EJC had reason to side with the Chinese for identical reasons. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,426 #63 August 11, 2008 One might, if CDIF ruled the day. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #64 August 11, 2008 Quote My co-worker, who apparently saw the CNN headline "Russia invades Georgia!" But didn't bother to actually read the article, just ran through the office yelling about Russia invading the southern US. Co-worker: Russia just invaded the south! They're in Georgia! Me: you mean they just invaded the country of Georgia, between Russia and Turkey, right? Co-worker: Don't be an idiot. Georgia's a state. Me (having flashbacks to Miss Teen South Carolina and considering purchasing a map for him): Okay. Whatever. Co-worker (running on his way): Russia's invaded the south! Wow. LMOAhowever maybe I shouldn't admit to this but when Argentina invaded the Falkland islands I thought they were off the coast of Scotland!However I was only 13 at the time!When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #65 August 11, 2008 Quote I'd have to presume that if the neocons, corporate media, Israel, McCain and Condi Rice are all whining about Russia "invading" Georgia, then Russia must be the good guys in this instance. Nah, it's all for show. A damaged oil pipeline in Georgia should halt the slip in the price of oil. Don't let them trick you into believing that they're unhappy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #66 August 11, 2008 I never said it did, rather used your line of reasoning in another administration - quite accurately I might add. McCain's position on Georgia is the correct one - regardless of whom any of his advisors might have been employed in the past. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,426 #67 August 11, 2008 >McCain's position on Georgia is the correct one - regardless of whom any >of his advisors might have been employed in the past. So McCain's ties with Georgia have nothing to do with his advisor's connections - but you can "deduce that EJC had reason to side with the Chinese for identical reasons." Gotcha. Not sure why I expected anything else. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
algboy 0 #68 August 11, 2008 Quote Quote I'd have to presume that if the neocons, corporate media, Israel, McCain and Condi Rice are all whining about Russia "invading" Georgia, then Russia must be the good guys in this instance. Nah, it's all for show. A damaged oil pipeline in Georgia should halt the slip in the price of oil. Don't let them trick you into believing that they're unhappy Short-term thinking only. The neo-cons are desperate to gain access to oil from Baku (on the Caspian Sea) to the Black Sea. Without Georgia--they're dead in the water. Their "Grand Chessboard" is going up in flames. It might be time for them to take up Checkers. This just in: "The Russian news website Izvestia is reporting that an African American soldier/mercenary has been captured by Russian forces. He was captured with a number of Georgian soldiers, whose specialty was in handling ordinances. The report mentions that they believe he is a Nato instructor, and that he has been transferred to the Russian base of Vladikavkaz. It also reports finding bodies of dead soldiers in Tskhinvali, the capital city of South Ossetia. But what stood out in the report was that some of the corpses were negroes." Consider this: google maps has censored interior viewing of Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaijan. Why? http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=40.763901,45.74707&spn=8.917903,13.908691&z=6 Strange days indeed.“Keep your elbow up!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gonzalesna 0 #69 August 11, 2008 Quote Quote Quote They seem to be invading another country for no apparent reason - where have we heard that before. Well, we didn't hear it in that case of the U.S. going to reign in a dictator who was making a mockery of U.N. sanctions imposed after he was stopped from invading Kuwait, that's for sure. Because one of many valid reasons for that invasion was the fact that this dictator was spitting in the eye of the toothless United Nations and someone had to have the balls to shut him and countless thousands of INNOCENT men, women and children that just happened to get in the way down. (1) Never forget that America is part if the Toothless UN (2) Was the slaughter of all those innocent civilians justified because their leader spit in your eye? Do you know how many of these "innocent civillians" shoot at us and then claim assault and murder??? It's like racism was 75 years ago in the southern US... They're raised to hate us without knowing why. Shooting a little kid is nothing anyone is proud of doing. A very large portion of the military has children, but when that kid's slingin' bullets your way, you've only got 1 option. If you don't, you may lose your family. (And when you're out there that long they become your family.) God forbid we'd left Saddam in power and he allowed his oldest son, Uday (Spelling?), to take over... Did we ever find any complete, ready to use "Weapons of mass destruction" over there? No. Did we find all the components needed to assemble them in a very short period of time? Yes. Also, how do you define weapon of mass destruction??? How many have to die? 100? 100,000? What's the time span for them to die in? A day? A week? A year?Some people refrain from beating a dead horse. Personally, I find a myriad of entertainment value when beating it until it becomes a horse-smoothie. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #70 August 11, 2008 Quote>McCain's position on Georgia is the correct one - regardless of whom any >of his advisors might have been employed in the past. So McCain's ties with Georgia have nothing to do with his advisor's connections - but you can "deduce that EJC had reason to side with the Chinese for identical reasons." Gotcha. Not sure why I expected anything else. I don't think McCain sold radiation-hardened computer chips to Georgia... and I'm pretty sure that Georgian nationals weren't / aren't funneling campaign contributions to him - I imagine it would be all over the "MS"M if they were.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cloudseeker2001 0 #71 August 12, 2008 Quote Quote Quote I'd have to presume that if the neocons, corporate media, Israel, McCain and Condi Rice are all whining about Russia "invading" Georgia, then Russia must be the good guys in this instance. Nah, it's all for show. A damaged oil pipeline in Georgia should halt the slip in the price of oil. Don't let them trick you into believing that they're unhappy Short-term thinking only. The neo-cons are desperate to gain access to oil from Baku (on the Caspian Sea) to the Black Sea. Without Georgia--they're dead in the water. Their "Grand Chessboard" is going up in flames. It might be time for them to take up Checkers. This just in: "The Russian news website Izvestia is reporting that an African American soldier/mercenary has been captured by Russian forces. He was captured with a number of Georgian soldiers, whose specialty was in handling ordinances. The report mentions that they believe he is a Nato instructor, and that he has been transferred to the Russian base of Vladikavkaz. It also reports finding bodies of dead soldiers in Tskhinvali, the capital city of South Ossetia. But what stood out in the report was that some of the corpses were negroes." Consider this: google maps has censored interior viewing of Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaijan. Why? http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=40.763901,45.74707&spn=8.917903,13.908691&z=6 Strange days indeed. Maybe Russia is cleaning up their backyard and screwing up covert CIA actions........I will bet that this will get worse before it gets better and Russia will be very unhappy with the west....which really screws up things for us because we need help from Russia to curb Iran........ "Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance, others mean and rueful of the western dream" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #72 August 12, 2008 Er...perhaps you read what you wanted to read. Try again.McCain's position is correct. How he came to the conclusion, I don't care - I agree with him. Why don't you, out of morbid curiosity? In contrast, I think EJC's lessening of technology restrictions for the Chinese was bad for the nation - again, regardless of the positions or former employers of his advisors that may have influenced him. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #73 August 12, 2008 Well, if one invades anothers country of course they are going to shoot at you. That does not make them any less innocent. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #74 August 12, 2008 Good newsVinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #75 August 12, 2008 Pay no attention to the bombs you hear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
