I'm thinking of packing a piece.

[joedirt 0]

Some people just don't get it. The whole point of the glock is to be simple. It's not my favorite gun either but it's sure a simple gun. If someone can be trained to load a revolver, they can be trained just as easily to load a glock. Not to mention a glock is easier to shoot accurately. The trigger is way easier than double action revolvers, and you have the same trigger pull every shot. That makes a huge difference for a beginner to actually hit their intended target. I think old school guys basically see a glock as an ugly 1911. "I'm gonna shoot a .45, but heres a .38 snubby for you sweetheart". As if anyone can shoot a lightweight snubbie well. Revolvers are fine if that's what somebody likes, but this idea that they're the best self defense gun for a beginner is not quite right. Oh and it's field stripped for cleaning in about 2 seconds.

So at least one person agrees with you.

[kallend 1,623]

Quote

Some people just don't get it. The whole point of the glock is to be simple. It's not my favorite gun either but it's sure a simple gun. If someone can be trained to load a revolver, they can be trained just as easily to load a glock. Not to mention a glock is easier to shoot accurately. The trigger is way easier than double action revolvers, and you have the same trigger pull every shot. That makes a huge difference for a beginner to actually hit their intended target. I think old school guys basically see a glock as an ugly 1911. "I'm gonna shoot a .45, but heres a .38 snubby for you sweetheart". As if anyone can shoot a lightweight snubbie well. Revolvers are fine if that's what somebody likes, but this idea that they're the best self defense gun for a beginner is not quite right. Oh and it's field stripped for cleaning in about 2 seconds.

So at least one person agrees with you.

It's not about cleaning and loading - it's about what you do when you're within 1/2 second of being shot dead yourself. Do you remember to release the safety? Apparently quite a few people didn't and are now quite dead.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Some people just don't get it. The whole point of the glock is to be simple.

I've been shooting various pistols and rifles for 30+ years - trust me, I 'get it'.

Quote

It's not my favorite gun either but it's sure a simple gun. If someone can be trained to load a revolver, they can be trained just as easily to load a glock.

Agreed.

Quote

Not to mention a glock is easier to shoot accurately. The trigger is way easier than double action revolvers, and you have the same trigger pull every shot.

You have the same trigger pull every time for a revolver, as well.

Quote

That makes a huge difference for a beginner to actually hit their intended target. I think old school guys basically see a glock as an ugly 1911. "I'm gonna shoot a .45, but heres a .38 snubby for you sweetheart".

Quote

As if anyone can shoot a lightweight snubbie well. Revolvers are fine if that's what somebody likes, but this idea that they're the best self defense gun for a beginner is not quite right. Oh and it's field stripped for cleaning in about 2 seconds.

Really? I'll bet you that damn near ANYone can take a lightweight .357 revolver, load it with 38 special and have NO problem putting rounds on target. In fact, I've trained several people that exact way, and none of them had problems putting rounds on target as long as they didn't jerk the trigger.

As for cleaning, the revolver is still simplest - hands down.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

It's not about cleaning and loading - it's about what you do when you're within 1/2 second of being shot dead yourself. Do you remember to release the safety? Apparently quite a few people didn't and are now quite dead.

That's a failure of training and practice, not the fault of the weapon - but you already knew that.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[billvon 2,400]

>That's a failure of training and practice . . .

As is being mugged to begin with, gun or no gun. But again, you knew that.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

>That's a failure of training and practice . . .

As is being mugged to begin with, gun or no gun. But again, you knew that.

Really? Some people HAVE to live in a high-crime area - not all of them can ninja-flip the mugger like you did, Bill.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[billvon 2,400]

>not all of them can ninja-flip the mugger like you did, Bill.

Once you have to do that (or pull out a gun) you've already failed at the most basic rule of personal safety.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

>not all of them can ninja-flip the mugger like you did, Bill.

Once you have to do that (or pull out a gun) you've already failed at the most basic rule of personal safety.

I don't disagree - however, it's physically impossible to be on 'high-alert' ALL the time.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[billvon 2,400]

>however, it's physically impossible to be on 'high-alert' ALL the time.

Then to use your expression, that becomes a failure in training and practice.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

>however, it's physically impossible to be on 'high-alert' ALL the time.

Then to use your expression, that becomes a failure in training and practice.

And this has WHAT to do with the argument at hand?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[birdlike 0]

Quote

Quote

Explain.

No second strike capability, for one - no way to make the weapon safe short of unloading, for another.

You have a revolver that has a manual safety??

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[birdlike 0]

Quote

Thank you, Captain Obvious - I believe you know what I mean, however. Do you think that Mr. "Nobody in this classroom is expert enough to carry this type of gun" DEA Agent would have ND'ed himself in the leg with a 1911? How about a Sig or an HK, or any other pistol with an external safety?

Absolutely yes, I do. I think that anyone oafish enough around guns to forget AT LEAST TWO of the basic safety rules as that agent did is a loose cannon and could fuck up with ANY gun you put in his hands.

If he could somehow "forget" to keep his finger off the trigger and simultaneously "forget" to keep the gun pointed away from anything precious (like his own leg!) why would you think him incapable of, Idunno, say, forgetting to even use the safety in the first place?

Quote

As far as second strike capability I dont quite follow.

Quote

You have no way to strike the primer a second time, in the case of a misfire/hard primer/etc. With a 1911 (as an example), I can thumb-cock the hammer and try again, or cycle around the cylinder with a revolver.

You would take the time, in a combat scenario, to thumb-cock the 1911 and risk wasting that time as you find out the round is indeed bad, rather than "tap-rack-bang" to start fresh with another round?

Quote

The Glocks are nice pistols, don't get me wrong - but they're not the be-all, end-all that Glock-o-philes pass them off as.

Funny, it always seems to me that it's the Glock-detractors who speciously allege that Glock-o-philes even try to pass them off as the be-all, end-all in the first place. For the most part, we don't. We spend most of our time defending against people who claim that our Glocks are always five rounds away from a "kaBoom."

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[birdlike 0]

Quote

Don't forget that the DEA cop was a "trained professional". Expect more errors from amateurs who are not accustomed to the stress of an armed encounter. Wasn't there a shopkeeper who had tried to shoot a robber without taking his safety off, and who was then disarmed and shot dead by the robber.

First of all, before we go believing your anecdote (without even so much as a location, let alone a time and a name) why don't you actually find some documentation for it.

Second, you can pretend all you want that a huge proportion of gun owners use and train with their guns FAR MORE than the "highly trained" cops who qualify once, maybe twice a year and then let their guns gather rust.

Quote

Comparing routinely driving a car with correctly handling a firearm under extreme stress is unreasonable and likely to lead to trouble, IMO. Rather like having every intention of going straight to your reserve following an aircraft emergency, but actually going for your main instead.

It seems like you are really intent on imputing incompetence and panic to everyone. Are you projecting, perhaps? Some of us are a lot more confident in ourselves.

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[birdlike 0]

Quote

Quote

>not all of them can ninja-flip the mugger like you did, Bill.

Once you have to do that (or pull out a gun) you've already failed at the most basic rule of personal safety.

I don't disagree - however, it's physically impossible to be on 'high-alert' ALL the time.

No, it's not just that. Since a criminal can approach you at any time, even in a place like a Macy's parking lot where you cannot be admonished that you "should've known better than to be there," you can't blame every encounter with a criminal on some good-guy's failure to be alert.

"Once you have to pull out a gun, you've already failed at the most basic rule of personal safety"?
Bill, you're gonna have to explain that one. I can never end up having to pull my gun without it being due to that I was negligent about situational awareness and safety? Come on.

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[piper17 1]

Colt has made the 1911 (and Commander) in .38 super for years. If you do a little searching at GunBroker.com or GunsAmerican.com, You can find one for a lot less than $3,000, depending on what flavor you want. Most seem to run between $850 - $1,500.

Besides Colt, Kimber makes them and I would guess that Wilson and others do as well.

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling

[Nightingale 0]

Quote

Well, having this stalker about has actually prevented me from moving back to NY. If this keeps up, and I find one bad reference made toward me on this site, I will proceed with a complaint and have that person arrested. Internet stalking is a federal crime. Fortunately, California has the toughest stalking laws. I just want to live my life in peace.

Good luck in getting those laws enforced. I've had someone stalking me online and in person for four years, and have made numerous police reports. The attitude of the cops: "Come back when he tries to hurt you, what are you wasting our time for?" Apparently, somebody threatening physical violence isn't enough for the cops to bother with.

[vortexring 0]

I think anyone putting their personal details available online is simply asking for trouble, whether it's through Myspace, blogs or even here!

Besides, with quite a few people now mentioning they're being stalked online here, how can you tell? I thought you'd have to be registered to send PM's, and if it's a bogus ID, surely there's an IP address worth investigating?

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Funny, it always seems to me that it's the Glock-detractors who speciously allege that Glock-o-philes even try to pass them off as the be-all, end-all in the first place. For the most part, we don't. We spend most of our time defending against people who claim that our Glocks are always five rounds away from a "kaBoom."

might want to review post #106, then.

[Nightingale 0]

Quote

I think anyone putting their personal details available online is simply asking for trouble, whether it's through Myspace, blogs or even here!

Besides, with quite a few people now mentioning they're being stalked online here, how can you tell? I thought you'd have to be registered to send PM's, and if it's a bogus ID, surely there's an IP address worth investigating?

When you have an online business like I do, you have to put some personal details online (like your name and email, or you can't get paid), and the person stalking me is someone I knew from real life in high school. The person stalking the OP is a former patient. These aren't random people who just found us online. My myspace, blogs and facebook are all privacy locked.

Yes, the IP would be evidence worth investigating, if I could manage to convince anybody at the police station to actually do some investigating.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

Thank you, Captain Obvious - I believe you know what I mean, however. Do you think that Mr. "Nobody in this classroom is expert enough to carry this type of gun" DEA Agent would have ND'ed himself in the leg with a 1911? How about a Sig or an HK, or any other pistol with an external safety?

Absolutely yes, I do. I think that anyone oafish enough around guns to forget AT LEAST TWO of the basic safety rules as that agent did is a loose cannon and could fuck up with ANY gun you put in his hands.

If he could somehow "forget" to keep his finger off the trigger and simultaneously "forget" to keep the gun pointed away from anything precious (like his own leg!) why would you think him incapable of, Idunno, say, forgetting to even use the safety in the first place?

He may have, he may not have - we'll never know. It *is* obvious that an external safety, if used, *would* have prevented the ND.

Quote

Quote

As far as second strike capability I dont quite follow.

Quote

You have no way to strike the primer a second time, in the case of a misfire/hard primer/etc. With a 1911 (as an example), I can thumb-cock the hammer and try again, or cycle around the cylinder with a revolver.

You would take the time, in a combat scenario, to thumb-cock the 1911 and risk wasting that time as you find out the round is indeed bad, rather than "tap-rack-bang" to start fresh with another round?

Where was a combat situation mentioned?

Quote

Quote

The Glocks are nice pistols, don't get me wrong - but they're not the be-all, end-all that Glock-o-philes pass them off as.

Funny, it always seems to me that it's the Glock-detractors who speciously allege that Glock-o-philes even try to pass them off as the be-all, end-all in the first place. For the most part, we don't. We spend most of our time defending against people who claim that our Glocks are always five rounds away from a "kaBoom."

Oh please...spare me. Look at the posts in this thread.

"Nobody can shoot a revolver well - get a Glock"

"1911's have too many levers to mess with - get a Glock"

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kallend 1,623]

Quote

It seems like you are really intent on imputing incompetence and panic to everyone. Are you projecting, perhaps? Some of us are a lot more confident in ourselves.

Cool, but with your attitude it seems to me that you should read this.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

It seems like you are really intent on imputing incompetence and panic to everyone. Are you projecting, perhaps? Some of us are a lot more confident in ourselves.

Cool, but with your attitude it seems to me that you should read this.

I guess all these people should read that too?

You seem to forget that some folks in these discussions HAVE 'seen the elephant'.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[someday 0]

johnrich i have about 5 guns, and only four excuses to use them.

not to mention they are making a 9mm taser round for generic weapons

ya can you say, technology wins, every time?


i don't know about you over there in "THE LONE STAR STATE" i mean, you guys are so different then the rest of the country, ill just call you iraq with all your problems.

but im not shooting to kill, im shooting to pick your ass up and get you to a nice vacation in a cell block.. cause it works.. dont speak unless you know..cell blocks teach lessons

[someday 0]

Quote

I think anyone putting their personal details available online is simply asking for trouble, whether it's through Myspace, blogs or even here!

i think it was adult friend finder wasn't it?

[JohnDeere 0]

Quote

i don't know about you over there in "THE LONE STAR STATE" i mean, you guys are so different then the rest of the country, ill just call you iraq with all your problems.

And what problems are you suggesting we have??????

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!