Iowa Flooding VS. Katrina

[SkyChimp 0]

Have you seen the pictures from Iowa of the people looting the liquor stores, carrying away televisions from retail stores, sitting on the roof begging for someone to take care of them, or collected in a football stadium complaining about the food and shelter being provided?


Neither have I

Does anyone else find it funny that we made a SPORT out of an EMERGENCY PROCEDURE?!?!

[airdvr 200]

Nobody there expects the government to take care of them.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[SkyChimp 0]

..... and have you noticed they got a lot more acomplished.

Does anyone else find it funny that we made a SPORT out of an EMERGENCY PROCEDURE?!?!

[leroydb 0]

I agree... but this will tick off those who might tend to think this is racist... OMG did i say that out loud...


A great australian said... "Harden the F*&* up"

Leroy


..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...

[Erroll 49]

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A great randy australian sheila said... "Harden the F*&* up", or go and find yourself a sheep!

[jenfly00 0]

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I agree... but this will tick off those who might tend to think this is racist... OMG did i say that out loud...


A great australian said... "Harden the F*&* up"

Yep, why don't you grow a pair and say it. "Them there niggers ain't as good as us white folk"

I could compare the circumstances and point out that with the recent flooding, people had some advance warning, fairly clear delineation of where the water would rise and time to withdraw to functional places ...places with stuff like electricity, food, and roofs. Helps getting things accomplished, ya know.

...but that's not going to sway your convictions about racial inferiority now is it?

-----------------------
"O brave new world that has such people in it".

[rushmc 18]

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I agree... but this will tick off those who might tend to think this is racist... OMG did i say that out loud...


A great australian said... "Harden the F*&* up"

Yep, why don't you grow a pair and say it. "Them there niggers ain't as good as us white folk"

I could compare the circumstances and point out that with the recent flooding, people had some advance warning, fairly clear delineation of where the water would rise and time to withdraw to functional places ...places with stuff like electricity, food, and roofs. Helps getting things accomplished, ya know.

...but that's not going to sway your convictions about racial inferiority now is it?

There are some very good comparisons here. The being that if Cedar Rapids Iowa had mostly a black population the media would have been on it just like NO.

So, for the sake of this post I will beleive you are just kidding here

Why? Because however you meant it, your post is the most racist I have seen on this site

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[BIGUN 1,075]

Had you placed this in Bonfire, I would taken it the same face value as the email that's currently slinging around and ignored it. However, it being in SC warrants some discussion.

First off, Having been to both within days as a first responder to the first responders; been a guest speaker at several EM conferences on "Katrina; Lessons learned," been to FEMA to converse with the Director of Disaster Response, etc. etc.... your post is in poor taste, sir.

Since the first part is about looting; I'll address that first. You ever been in a survival situation? And, Katrina truly was about survival. You take anything you can get your hands on for barter. The OP's implication regarding race is inaccurate, both white and black were doing the exact same thing, Do you understand the magnitude not only of the impact of Katrina, but the resulting surge. It was like throwing four thermonuclear devices between N/O and Mobile and just when you thought it was over, throwing a 15 foot tidal wave at an inordinate speed and finally; try to picture what happens when a tsunami enters a funnel-like bay (that same 15 foot tidal wave entering the 17th and Lincoln street levees).

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sitting on the roof begging for someone to take care of them, or collected in a football stadium complaining about the food and shelter being provided?

In Iowa, there's a myriad of directions to go and everyone has transportation. In New Orleans, it's not that way. It's not unlike NYC or Sacramento where 50-75% of your escape route is cutoff and a majority of your population uses public transportation. You should see the CAT scenarios for those two cities. In fact, Governor Schwarzenegger has already enacted a State of Emergency for one CAT scenario where the Pineapple Express drops down; creating their perfect storm in SAC combining an oceanic event with mountain runoff and is working to improve the almost exact same type levee system as N/O.

Some history... Until Katrina; FEMA was not a disaster response organization and had just recently been rolled up under DHS. . FEMA was an "insurance agency" for lack of a better term and the responsibility for DR started at the county and worked its way up and FEMA's job was to authorize payment.

However, FEMA took quite a lot of shit from a media that was ignorant of their mission and FEMA tried to re-mold itself into a DR organization overnight. Katrina woke a lot of folks up. A lot of States now have entirely new plans in place and even an EMAC system has been emplaced.

For example; when Katina hit, it was actually Florida that mobilized our organization to Mississippi to six miles north of Waveland (where the epicenter hit). EMAC, "the Emergency Management Assistance Compact, is a congressionally ratified organization that provides form and structure to interstate mutual aid. Through EMAC, a disaster impacted state can request and receive assistance from other member states quickly and efficiently, resolving two key issues upfront: liability and reimbursement." For example, if Massachusetts runs out of funding during a disaster; New York may mobilize our organization for Massachusetts (by contractual obligation) under the EMAC and reimbursement is guaranteed.

Now, if you'll remember - during Katrina, a simple commodity like water became and remained an item of barter days to a couple of weeks after the storm. Let's look at how things have improved...

According to this morning's sitrep from International Association of Emergency Managers :

Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA)
•Where waters have already receded, FEMA disaster assistance workers are providing resources to individuals seeking assistance in the Midwest.
•43 Disaster Recovery Centers are open across the region – including 21 Mobile Disaster Recovery Centers.
•In Iowa, Indiana and Wisconsin, 56,096 registrations for assistance have been received from disaster victims and more than $115 million has been approved for housing assistance and other disaster-related needs.
•More than 5,600 households from the five impacted states have filed flood insurance claims.
•FEMA’s Logistics Management Directorate deployed a Logistics Fly Away Team to Des Moines, Iowa. They are performing an analysis of the logistics operations supporting the Midwest flooding; validating revised processes and concepts; and gathering lessons learned in order to make the necessary adjustments geared toward hurricane support.

The U.S. Small Business Administration (SBA)
•SBA has received 3,058 applications and has already approved 226 loans – 219 of which went to individuals and seven to small businesses – totaling more than $14.3 million.
•SBA opened a Business Recovery Center in Grand Rapids, Iowa that is a one-stop location for businesses to get access to a variety of services supporting the recovery process.
•Specialists from SBA's Disaster Assistance Program and the Office of Government Contracting will staff the center and meet individually with each business owner.
•SBA's resource partners – including Iowa's Small Business Development centers, the local Women's Business Center, the Service Corps of Retired Executives and representatives from the City of Cedar Rapids, also will be at the center providing information and support to business owners.

The U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA)
•USDA has distributed more than $2.6 million in benefits and supplements to nearly 7,000 new and more than 3,000 ongoing households through the Disaster Food Stamp Program in Indiana, Iowa and Wisconsin.
•USDA's Risk Management Agency is extending until August 15, 2008, the deadline for submitting acreage reports for all 2008 crop year spring-seeded acreage in areas impacted by flooding and extreme weather conditions. This additional time applies to spring-seeded crop acreage for all counties in Iowa, Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, Ohio, South Dakota and Wisconsin.

The U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT)
•In Iowa, DOT is making $1 million available immediately in emergency relief funds to help pay for urgent repairs to roads and bridges damaged by floods.
The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA)
•In Indiana, EPA has completed its field reconnaissance in all 30 of the impacted counties.
•In Iowa, EPA collected between 3,000 and 4,000 household hazardous waste containers and orphan drums in recent days.
•To date, EPA has also collected approximately 12,000 items of household hazardous waste, electronic goods and large appliances across the state.
•EPA has established four centralized household hazardous waste collection centers.

The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers (USACE)
•In Iowa, USACE is providing technical assistance for planning and preparation for the drinking water, wastewater, infrastructure and safety mission.
•USACE and EPA deployed a team to Manchester to assess a wastewater facility and to accompany Iowa officials during visits to industries that discharge into to the river.
•USACE is working with FEMA and the state on plans for debris removal.
•USACE is providing technical assistance and monitoring the levee systems on a 24-hour basis.
•35 levees have overtopped, seven of which are federal levees. USACE has teams on the ground to assess levee damage in areas where flood waters has receded, and will continue to assess levee damage as areas become safe and stable to enter.
•USACE is providing technical assistance, heavy equipment, pumps, sandbags and plastic sheeting for active flood fight efforts at 12 threatened levees.
•263 USACE personnel are directly involved in the flood fight efforts; providing liaison support to activated regions, deploying debris, water, commodities, temporary housing, and emergency power teams, as well as technical assistance for flood fighting and dam and levee inspections.
•Three separate USACE divisions are working on flood prevention, dam and levee technical inspection and assistance and emergency repair.
•USACE is providing technical assistance in temporary housing, dam and bridge assessments, and flood structures in Indiana, Wisconsin, Missouri and Illinois.
Response and Recovery Efforts Continue in the Midwest – Page 3

The U.S. National Guard
•As the military's first responder, more than 2,300 National Guard members are supporting civil authorities throughout the Midwest as they respond to and recover from floods.
•Nearly 1,100 Illinois National Guard members continue to provide security and levee monitoring in support of flood fighting efforts.
•824 Missouri National Guard members are performing levee monitoring, debris removal, security, and communications missions in support of flood fighting efforts.
•206 Wisconsin National Guard members are performing traffic control, debris removal, communications, and sandbagging missions in support of flood fighting efforts.
•201 Iowa National Guard members, a reduction of more than 870 people, are helping their neighbors recover from record flooding.

Emergency Management Assistance Compact (EMAC)
•Ten states have responded to requests for assistance from the affected states.
•Providing support: Delaware, Florida, Illinois, Kentucky, Minnesota, Mississippi, Nebraska, New Mexico, New York, and North Carolina.
•Though executing its own response, Illinois supported efforts in Missouri with resources no longer needed in Illinois.

The American Red Cross (ARC)
•To date, ARC has provided 12,251 overnight stays in 120 shelters and served more than 300,000 meals and 475,000 snacks.
•ARC has distributed 45,265 Clean Up Kits and 15,718 Comfort Kits through its 101 service delivery sites.
National Voluntary Organizations Assisting in Disaster (NVOAD)
•State and National VOADS are now listed on the Financial Support page of the Iowa portal on the Aidmatrix donations network, which can be found at www.aidmatrixnetwork.org/fema.
•153 volunteers registered, 25 offers of goods have been received and 20 offers have been placed with non-profits.

And, on a final racial-profiling note... let me tell you what I don't "see" is a bunch of people throwing rocks at Iowans or those in Sacramento for being "stupid enough" to live that close to a levee system.

We live; We learn; We grow.. I'm going for more coffee.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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Nobody there expects the government to take care of them.

Apparently you haven't been watching the media all that close. To save you 30 seconds of search time on Google, I can tell you the news broadcasting out of Chicago shows people in Iowa, Northern Illinois and Wisconsin all begging for help. They haven't had to complain loudly because GW was on the ground shortly after the disaster happened and ordered help there that was on site with supplies within a few days. The other difference is that everyone knew the water would flow back into the river once the rains stopped. In NOLA no one was sure just how long the water would be around, then you had all the little problems a Cat5 hurricane produces.

But I wonder why the people who are still waiting on ANY help at all are complaining in NOLA??? Oh ya:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/06/12/fema.katrina.supplies/index.html

http://www.nola.com/news/index.ssf/2008/06/a_closer_look_at_the_great_fem.html

Luckily the media jumped all over this and the items will be returned.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/06/17/fema.supplies/

But nice job of jumping on the viral, racist email bandwagon. I guess this is why those Nigerian lottery emails still get replies.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[airdvr 200]

I've always felt the more complicated the explanation the more BS was involved.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

One other thing on the looting, since you didn't take a few seconds to search on Google.

Since the flooding was localized, it was easy to put up blockades and force people to wait in line for hours to register to re enter their neighborhood. If you didn't have a wrist band on, you went to jail until they could sort things out. It's also a lot easier to control a city in Iowa than it is one of the largest cities in the country that had to move almost the entire population hundreds of miles away. Most people in this area only had to move away by a mile. Then there was the 1993 flood that prepared most of this area on how to react to this sort of tragedy. And despite all that, there was still opportunist crimes in the area around the midwest floods.

There really is no comparison to Katrina here.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[rushmc 18]

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One other thing on the looting, since you didn't take a few seconds to search on Google.

Since the flooding was localized, it was easy to put up blockades and force people to wait in line for hours to register to re enter their neighborhood. If you didn't have a wrist band on, you went to jail until they could sort things out. It's also a lot easier to control a city in Iowa than it is one of the largest cities in the country that had to move almost the entire population hundreds of miles away. Most people in this area only had to move away by a mile. Then there was the 1993 flood that prepared most of this area on how to react to this sort of tragedy. And despite all that, there was still opportunist crimes in the area around the midwest floods.

There really is no comparison to Katrina here.

The real point?. The "what is owed me" attitude comparison between those in Iowa and those in NO.

The Fed gov did not fail in NO, the local govs did. Why? that is an easy one.

In the end, that is what it comes down to.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[akarunway 1]

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Have you seen the pictures from Iowa of the people looting the liquor stores, carrying away televisions from retail stores, sitting on the roof begging for someone to take care of them, or collected in a football stadium complaining about the food and shelter being provided?


Neither have I

SOS, different day. Let's see if the pigs( I mean police officers) try to take their guns away.

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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The real point?. The "what is owed me" attitude comparison between those in Iowa and those in NO.

The Fed gov did not fail in NO, the local govs did. Why? that is an easy one.

Somehow you overlooked my statement where that attitude HAS been broadcasted from Iowa, Northern Illinois and Wisconsin. It's not as loud as it was in NOLA because the devastation is not ANYWHERE close to what it was from the hurricane. I did see one person say "I hope we don't have a repeat of NOLA with Fema here." I'm certain it's selective attention to the topic, and I'm certain that deep rooted racism is encouraging people to make these wild claims. Ignorance tends to blind people from the truth.

Another thing to think about with the flooding. Ever since the storms hit Iowa and Wisconsin, this area knew the flooding was coming. In fact we knew pretty much the exact day the cresting would hit the area. Further damage was prevented by simple sandbagging of the levee and around buildings. Most towns in this tri-state area around channel rivers have a 500 year flood plan because it's happened before and we knew it will happen again. Since the last time was in 1993 reaction time was great because we saw what inaction did last time. The people along the Gulf had no such options. Basically they had to grab what they could and run, and hope they ran the right direction because no one knew exactly where it was going to land or turn once it did.

By ways of comparison, Northern Illinois damage will have been fixed by the end of the year, Wisconsin will have most of their damage fixed by then as well (the Dells area will be fixed by next spring), and Iowa will take till next Spring for all the damage as well. Meanwhile in 2008 we still have entire neighborhoods in LA that haven't received any restoration efforts yet. Most insurance claims up here will be settled by the end of next year while in LA the insurance companies are trying to claim that they don't need to pay for anything.

Again, there is a world of difference between the worst natural disaster this country has ever seen, and some flooding. Even if the media wants to take one person's quote on the comparison and run it as their opening headline, it doesn't mean it is true. I think some people have forgotten just how huge Katrina was and just how massive the damage was. And if you believe those that have left the Bush Administration, there was a massive failure to prepare and handle that Hurricane. Do you think that Michael Brown was the scapegoat because the local governments screwed up?

I'm sorry, but the ignorance surrounding to these claims really gets to me.

This is really an apple to oranges comparison.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[rushmc 18]

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The real point?. The "what is owed me" attitude comparison between those in Iowa and those in NO.

The Fed gov did not fail in NO, the local govs did. Why? that is an easy one.

Somehow you overlooked my statement where that attitude HAS been broadcasted from Iowa, Northern Illinois and Wisconsin. It's not as loud as it was in NOLA because the devastation is not ANYWHERE close to what it was from the hurricane.Insurance adjusters here (who were in NO too) stated in a local paper that the mess and damage here, while not as wide spread, is worse than Katrina I did see one person say "I hope we don't have a repeat of NOLA with Fema here." I'm certain it's selective attention to the topic, and I'm certain that deep rooted racismyours is encouraging people to make these wild claims. Ignorance tends to blind people from the truth.

Another thing to think about with the flooding. Ever since the storms hit Iowa and Wisconsin, this area knew the flooding was coming.You keep saying this when if fact the Gov of LA and the Mayor of NO were asked by Bush to start evactions days before In fact we knew pretty much the exact day the cresting would hit the area. Further damage was prevented by simple sandbagging of the levee and around buildings. Most towns in this tri-state area around channel rivers have a 500 year flood plan because it's happened before and we knew it will happen again. Since the last time was in 1993 reaction time was great because we saw what inaction did last time. The people along the Gulf had no such options. Basically they had to grab what they could and run, many businesses here had to do the same as this flood broke the record in CR by 12 feet and hope they ran the right direction because no one knew exactly where it was going to land or turn once it did.

By ways of comparison, Northern Illinois damage will have been fixed by the end of the year, Wisconsin will have most of their damage fixed by then as well (the Dells area will be fixed by next spring), and Iowa will take till next Spring for all the damage as well. Meanwhile in 2008 we still have entire neighborhoods in LA that haven't received any restoration efforts yet. Most insurance claims up here will be settled by the end of next year while in LA the insurance companies are trying to claim that they don't need to pay for anything.I do agree the damage is not as wide spread, however, power to down town CR is not yet restored

Again, there is a world of difference between the worst natural disaster this country has ever seen, and some flooding. Even if the media wants to take one person's quote on the comparison and run it as their opening headline, it doesn't mean it is true. I think some people have forgotten just how huge Katrina was and just how massive the damage was. And if you believe those that have left the Bush Administration, there was a massive failure to prepare and handle that Hurricane. Do you think that Michael Brown was the scapegoat because the local governments screwed up?

I'm sorry, but the ignorance surrounding to these claims really gets to me.it should as they are yours

This is really an apple to oranges comparison.

In some ways yes, in others? that is what you think I guess

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

I am no fan of Wiki but these seems laid out well

FYI

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Hurricane_Katrina

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[millertime24 8]

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Again, there is a world of difference between the worst natural disaster this country has ever seen,

Really? According to these guys it was Hurricane Galveston back in the day.

http://www.livescience.com/environment/top-10-natural-disasters-1.html

Muff #5048

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

Trying to get a job for Fox News? Great spin job.

Sorry, the claims came from the original poster and those that backed him up. Nice leap thou trying to claim I'm racist, care to toss in "I know you are but what am I" as well?

I have to go into a meeting, but I'll have to find the claims that refute the comparison to Katrina that the media has broadcast as well maybe later on today. Don't have any more time for interwebs arguments right now.

Meanwhile, I present this:
http://xkcd.com/386/

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[rushmc 18]

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Trying to get a job for Fox News? Great spin job.

Sorry, the claims came from the original poster and those that backed him up. Nice leap thou trying to claim I'm racist, care to toss in "I know you are but what am I" as well?

I have to go into a meeting, but I'll have to find the claims that refute the comparison to Katrina that the media has broadcast as well maybe later on today. Don't have any more time for interwebs arguments right now.

Meanwhile, I present this:
http://xkcd.com/386/

All I was trying to do was make a remark as rediculas as yours. Seems it worked.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[livendive 8]

Let's see...35,000ish people have been displaced by the flooding in Iowa, all next to rivers and all of them got lots of advance warning.

There were what, 5 million-ish people in the path of Hurricane Katrina? And the flooding was on a scale that was completely unexpected.

I've seen MANY accounts of the mid-west folks begging the government for help.

The original post is about as bigoted as I've seen here, albeit pretty underhanded racism. On the flip side of that coin, have you seen how quickly the government has stepped in to help with the flooding in the midwest? It's amazing how much faster their response is when the victims are white, eh?

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[SkyChimp 0]

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I agree... but this will tick off those who might tend to think this is racist... OMG did i say that out loud...


A great australian said... "Harden the F*&* up"

I'm trying to figure out why some people pull the race card..... We are just commenting on the difference of two locations in the country. Unless someone feels there might be different cultures. Kinda like how Maine and Georgia have two different cultures. What are the race ratios between the two?

Does anyone else find it funny that we made a SPORT out of an EMERGENCY PROCEDURE?!?!

[SkyChimp 0]

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I agree... but this will tick off those who might tend to think this is racist... OMG did i say that out loud...


A great australian said... "Harden the F*&* up"

Yep, why don't you grow a pair and say it. "Them there niggers ain't as good as us white folk"

I could compare the circumstances and point out that with the recent flooding, people had some advance warning, fairly clear delineation of where the water would rise and time to withdraw to functional places ...places with stuff like electricity, food, and roofs. Helps getting things accomplished, ya know.

...but that's not going to sway your convictions about racial inferiority now is it?

But there is much more damage and more area covered with the North flooding now than it was in New Orleans. Three states the Mississippi river has now poured into. Does more damage and more flooding equal less resources??? I'm still trying to figure out why one location of natural disaster has behaved themselves, and another location could not.

Does anyone else find it funny that we made a SPORT out of an EMERGENCY PROCEDURE?!?!

[SkyChimp 0]

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I've always felt the more complicated the explanation the more BS was involved.

hahahaha

Does anyone else find it funny that we made a SPORT out of an EMERGENCY PROCEDURE?!?!

[SkyChimp 0]

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One other thing on the looting, since you didn't take a few seconds to search on Google.

Since the flooding was localized, it was easy to put up blockades and force people to wait in line for hours to register to re enter their neighborhood.

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.... but the looting in Katrina happened where the people were shortly after, and continued for weeks after the water line began to drop. In addition, people in New Orleans were also kept quarantined like Iowa from their homes.

Does anyone else find it funny that we made a SPORT out of an EMERGENCY PROCEDURE?!?!

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[SkyChimp 0]

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Let's see...35,000ish people have been displaced by the flooding in Iowa, all next to rivers and all of them got lots of advance warning.

There were what, 5 million-ish people in the path of Hurricane Katrina? And the flooding was on a scale that was completely unexpected.

I've seen MANY accounts of the mid-west folks begging the government for help.

The original post is about as bigoted as I've seen here, albeit pretty underhanded racism. On the flip side of that coin, have you seen how quickly the government has stepped in to help with the flooding in the midwest? It's amazing how much faster their response is when the victims are white, eh?

Blues,
Dave

Once again people think this post was about race.....Why? Am I missing the writing on the wall or something? I really don't know the ratios of race between the two regions but it appears I might have to find out because some people's compass keeps pointing in the same direction. Why are people "assuming" that behavior in one region is tied to race?? Is that the frame of mind with some?? It's not what my post said. Not once did it mentioned race but if someone assumes that was the intention then it clearly shows that person's perception of their own reality.

Does anyone else find it funny that we made a SPORT out of an EMERGENCY PROCEDURE?!?!