beowulf 1 #51 June 18, 2008 I find it amazing that you can speak with such great authority on something that you have absolutely no evidence. It's like you live in a fantasy world. It sounds more like a Christian version of Dungeons and Dragons. To me it sounds like you make this up as you go. Talk to as many Christians as you can and you will find just as many different versions of Christianity. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CoderHead 0 #52 June 18, 2008 What I would very much like to see is a convincing argument for Christian dogma that did NOT use passages from the Bible. For instance, if I set up a religion/cult/whatever based on the belief in talking bears, I could use all of the Bearenstain Bears books as my model. Whenever you said, "there are no talking bears" I could pull out a book and say, "no, you're wrong! It says right here that bears not only talk, but they garden and ride the bus into town as well." Having it in print doesn't make it so. I'd also like to see a demonstration of this faith of which you speak so vehemently. For example, I know through empirical evidence that I cannot fly. Therefore, I strap on a parachute before I exit the plane. If you were to have absolute, unwavering faith to the contrary, you'd still fall to your death. When you say "I have faith in God, therefore God exists," I say you've done nothing to prove your point. I, likewise, cannot prove God doesn't exist, so I don't try. But I can at least be rational about it. You want to believe in God, fine. Just don't push it on me. I don't want to believe in YOUR god? Fine, let me be. If someone posts an image that implies your beliefs are ridiculous based on how the real world functions, let them. Don't try to convert them. You would just as quickly post an article or chain letter that states how quickly all of the unbelievers are going to Hell. Just for the record, that image is freaking hilarious.He who laughs last didn't get the joke. Freefall Express Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bjjman 0 #53 June 18, 2008 http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?i=254662607&id=254660910&s=143441 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LoYM5OWIqI"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." -Albert Einstein Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rynodigsmusic 0 #54 June 18, 2008 Quote I find it amazing that you can speak with such great authority on something that you have absolutely no evidence. It's like you live in a fantasy world. It sounds more like a Christian version of Dungeons and Dragons. To me it sounds like you make this up as you go. Talk to as many Christians as you can and you will find just as many different versions of Christianity. I dont know why I thought that was so funny! But, your right, there is a lack of unity amongst Christians. The reason for this is clearly mans ability, or desire even, to belong to a particular religion. I think that belonging sort of satisfies an ego more often than it does our desire to recieve and share the deeper qualities of a spiritual life. Truth be told, I have found more genuine Christians outside of church than I have inside. Of course there are some in the church as well, but going to church does not make a Christian produce the fruit of the spirit. Something to consider at least is that Jesus spoke more against self righteousness and hypocrisy than anything else it seems...and those things come from within the church. It is my belief that if people actually met the Jesus I met when I read the Gospel, they would never be so against him. And I really dont mean to sound as if I have authority. My intent is not to be exalted but to bring the message of the Gospel the way it was brought to me. All the authority was given to Jesus, I desire humbleness with all my heart, and I say that with as much humbleness as I have."We didn't start the fire" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #55 June 18, 2008 All see in your writings are statements with no evidence to back them up. You act as though you have evidence when you don't. You have never met Jesus. You read about a character in book that was named Jesus. Anything else is just imagined. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CoderHead 0 #56 June 18, 2008 QuoteYou have never met Jesus. You read about a character in a book that was named Jesus. Anything else is just imagined. +1He who laughs last didn't get the joke. Freefall Express Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rynodigsmusic 0 #57 June 18, 2008 QuoteAll see in your writings are statements with no evidence to back them up. You act as though you have evidence when you don't. You have never met Jesus. You read about a character in book that was named Jesus. Anything else is just imagined. You are standing at a door my freind, why not knock?"We didn't start the fire" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CoderHead 0 #58 June 18, 2008 QuoteYou are standing at a door my freind, why not knock? Provide us with evidence of the existence of this door. Anyway, what does that have to do with how funny the posted image is? That was the whole point of this thread. Also, it's spelled "friend."He who laughs last didn't get the joke. Freefall Express Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #59 June 18, 2008 Could you be any more vague? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rynodigsmusic 0 #60 June 18, 2008 Quote Quote You are standing at a door my freind, why not knock? Provide us with evidence of the existence of this door. Anyway, what does that have to do with how funny the posted image is? That was the whole point of this thread. Also, it's spelled "friend." I promise you on the other side of this door is a life you do not know. How can I provide you with evidence of a life you do not know? That is like providing you with evidence of your future, and how do I know you will be allive? All I can tell you is what I found on the other side of it. But the quesiton is, what can you tell me that you have found on this side of it? Asking what a post has to do with the original thread is like asking what a wave has to do with the ocean. There is a flow to these conversations as people are inspired in thought. And spelling? You cant be serious."We didn't start the fire" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stitch 0 #61 June 18, 2008 If Beowolf can manage not to get banned, this may turn in to a pretty good thread."No cookies for you"- GFD "I don't think I like the sound of that" ~ MB65 Don't be a "Racer Hater" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #62 June 18, 2008 I will do best to not get banned. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CoderHead 0 #63 June 18, 2008 And what am I to find on the other side of this door? An eternity walking "streets of gold" and laying crowns down at the feet of a deity who took an observer's role long ago and shouting, "Hosanna, Hosanna! How great thou art?" What use do I have for streets of gold? What appeals to me about eternally praising a "father" who threw me into a den of lions and intended from the start for me to suffer? A "father" who punishes all of his children for all of time for the crimes committed by two people at the beginning of creation? Is that how you parent? On this side of the door I have friends. I have dreams, hobbies, and fun. On this side of the door I'm alive. Why do I need to worry about what may or may not happen after I die in a figurative paradise or lake of fire? If God were real and we had need for Him, wouldn't I feel a void? Wouldn't I seek out the thing that will make me whole? I'm sorry, but your logic doesn't mesh with my experience. There's too much chaos and uncertainty in this world to sing, "He's got the whole world in His hands." As with any theory, you need to prove it. You Christians scream heresy at the mention of a new scientific theory and demand the full scientific process for proof, yet you yourselves provide none. Don't presume to tell me my life is missing something just because you grasp onto a fairy tale in your moments of insecurity. And don't persecute a person for finding humor in a set of faith-based beliefs with nothing more than a cryptic book full of outlandish stories to back it up. And spelling? Yes, spelling. As an adult, you should not only be able to write at a High School graduate level but also notice the "Check Spelling" button below the text box into which you're typing your reply.He who laughs last didn't get the joke. Freefall Express Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #64 June 18, 2008 I have read the Bible and I didn't experience any sort of "spirtual awakening". I didn't find any other "life". I didn't apparently get out of it what you did. How can you promise me that on the other side of a door I don't see and you have no evidence of that there is some sort of "life" that you think is greater then the current life I am living? It's a fantasy land you have constructed for your self. There are a lot of great things in this world and there are a lot of bad things and plenty in between. I would rather live in reality then construct a fantasy world to try to escape. I am willing to accept life the way it is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rynodigsmusic 0 #65 June 18, 2008 I'd also like to see a demonstration of this faith of which you speak so vehemently. >>>>I have faith, but not doubtless faith. If my faith was without doubt I could do the things Jesus did. Faith is the power of God, he spoke the world into existance. He spoke, and it was so. I am but a mere infant child in faith, but a mere infant child I still am. QuoteI, likewise, cannot prove God doesn't exist, so I don't try. But I can at least be rational about it. >>>>How exactly is it being rational to deny something you cant prove? Or istnt rather that you dont want to be as "rational" as you think.Quote You want to believe in God, fine. Just don't push it on me. I don't want to believe in YOUR god? Fine, let me be. >>>>I dont think anyone is pushing God on you, maybe God is pushing God on you? I for one am just sharing what I know, besides, no one can make you see God no matter how much they try. Repent and become born again and you will see him as he only reveals himself to the pure in heart, those who live by truth, and the pure in heart know they are guilty of sin and in need of forgiveness.Quote If someone posts an image that implies your beliefs are ridiculous based on how the real world functions, let them. Don't try to convert them. You would just as quickly post an article or chain letter that states how quickly all of the unbelievers are going to Hell. >>>>.... and I would excpect a rash of responses wouldnt I? As I said before, the man who posted the image knew exactly what he was doing. It would be like me posting an image of your slaughtered family and mocking it. It was a very bad choice of thread origin and it was FILLED with ignorance. It is interesting how ignorance and hatred toward God inspires those who love God to speak.Quote Just for the record, that image is freaking hilarious.Quote >>>>And I also find it funny that you cant prove or disprove Gods existance, yet you risk denying and rejecting his greatest expression of Grace knowing the consequnces. To test your igonorance even more, what do you think grace is? Ignorance should not be taken as an offensive word, I am ignorant about many things, but seriously, this image is pure ignorance with arrogance, and that is the difference. Those who are arrogant about what they do not know risk being offensive, mean, enraged and even hate filled. All those things will prevent peace from flourishing in thier lives and obviously in the lives of others. Believe it or not, racism is based on that very thing."We didn't start the fire" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CoderHead 0 #66 June 18, 2008 How do you know that the "Pearly Gates" are intended to keep souls out instead of keeping souls in. Think about it. Sorry beowulf, that was not intended for you.He who laughs last didn't get the joke. Freefall Express Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites beowulf 1 #67 June 18, 2008 It's not my fantasy world. In fantasy world the rules can be what ever you want them to be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CoderHead 0 #68 June 18, 2008 QuoteHow exactly is it being rational to deny something you cant prove? Or istnt rather that you dont want to be as "rational" as you think.Me not believing in a great, white-bearded daddy in the sky is irrational? I'm not denying what I cannot prove. I'm denying what you cannot prove. QuoteRepent and become born again and you will see him as he only reveals himself to the pure in heart... Nope, you're right. You're not pushing your beliefs on me. Thanks for the clarification. I was so wrong. Also, I don't feel guilty of sin. I do what I do and get on with my life without harming others in the process, and I do that without the fear of eternal consequences. QuoteIt would be like me posting an image of your slaughtered family and mocking it.The man in the picture is not your family. The man in the picture is not Jesus. Jesus is not your family. God is not your biological father. This is an image with a funny caption. I'll give you that it's inflammatory toward a group of people with similar beliefs based on the icon that the man pictured is intended to represent. But that's all. Quoteyou risk denying and rejecting his greatest expression of Grace knowing the consequncesWhat grace? What consequences? When you think about a soul in eternal joy or eternal suffering, does that honestly make sense to you? Let me ask you this: where do all these souls come from? Is there a soul factory in Heaven? Where is your soul located? Can you point it out on an x-ray? MRI? CT scan? Does the Bible explain that one? I'm sorry, but I feel no fear for the eternal state of my soul.He who laughs last didn't get the joke. Freefall Express Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites beowulf 1 #69 June 18, 2008 Till you can prove that Christianity isn't some fantasy world based on the Bible then I will continue to see it all as that. For me to believe it you will need to present real evidence that can be tested. You seem to have trouble with the concept of evidence. I need scientific evidence. Tangible evidence that can be duplicated. Not feelings or any thing subjective. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rynodigsmusic 0 #70 June 18, 2008 QuoteI have read the Bible and I didn't experience any sort of "spirtual awakening". I didn't find any other "life". I didn't apparently get out of it what you did. How can you promise me that on the other side of a door I don't see and you have no evidence of that there is some sort of "life" that you think is greater then the current life I am living? It's a fantasy land you have constructed for your self. Did you repent of your sins, and fill your heart with remorse? Accept Jesus as the atonement for those sins and pray to be baptised in the holy spirit? Have you humbled yourself in front of God behind closed doors and bowed to his power? Because, I promise you with all my heart if you do these things he will reveal himself and you will see a life so beautiful and full of spirit. The only thing we can do in this life to be united with God in spirit is to confess our sins to him and ask for his forgiveness. Jesus is the only acceptable forgiveness to find life right here on earth. If you do these things, I promise you will find life. Repentance is the door, but God knows the heart and he knows when the repentance is sincere and when it is not. Life is a gift, there is nothing we can do to find it. It is only given through repentance and acceptance of the Holy Spirit. The key question is do you desire to leave the world, for this gift? Im afraid that death must be revealed in you before you will desire life. God gives on the measure you desire him to give. This is the message of the Gospel, and I can testify to its truth as can many others."We didn't start the fire" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CoderHead 0 #71 June 18, 2008 QuoteThis is the message of the Gospel, and I can testify to its truth as can many others. You forgot to add the word "subjectively" to the end of your sentence. Give us something tangible. That's my challenge to you. Stop speaking in parables.He who laughs last didn't get the joke. Freefall Express Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Muenkel 0 #72 June 18, 2008 What really was your motive posting that image? Receive some 'haha' replies by those who carry your same belief system or to offend those who take very seriously the ultimate sacrifice they believe Jesus did for them? Good thing for you we're not radical Muslims. _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites livendive 8 #73 June 18, 2008 Quote What really was your motive posting that image? Receive some 'haha' replies by those who carry your same belief system or to offend those who take very seriously the ultimate sacrifice they believe Jesus did for them? Good thing for you we're not radical Muslims. I thought it was funny and figured some here would view it similarly. Of course I realized there would be some who failed to see the humor in it, which is why I posted it in Speaker's Corner rather than the Bonfire. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites gjhdiver 0 #74 June 18, 2008 Quote Be honest now. What do you think about spirituality? It's bollocks. Quote About enlightenment? I achieved true enlightenment the day I saw through and promptly abandoned all religion and superstition. I live my life without fear of imaginary friends. Quote You dont believe in anything? With death being just as much a part of life as the air we breath, you dont think it could even be possible that because we know so little about death, that there could be literally a whole other world on the other side? Not a fucking chance. There's lots of living things. Are you seriously telling me that there is an afterlife with every last insect, plant, bacteria, dinosaur, animal, and fish in it ? Bit crowded wouldn't you say ? I know, I know, your magic book has a get out clause for that. Just the talking monkeys get to play. Quote It just seems a bit ignorant to me that one would completely deny even the possiblity that life doesnt die beyond death. Unless you are fully satisfied believing that your flesh is all there is to your actual existance....but does your mind truly tell you that? Yep, and I've seen bugger all evidence to the contrary. Quote Isnt your mind capable of wonder and hope? Dont we have an imagination to explore the unseen and to even experience a sort of motivation in that? We do. It's called science and reason, and it's nice to say that they are doing a great job of destroying the hopeless bullshit that is organized religion. Seriously though, I don't really care what you believe, as long as you don't try to enact your particular superstition into public policy. Quote Do you believe that money cant buy happiness? Not on it's own, but it sure as hell can allow you to be miserable in comfort. Organized religions are awash in money conned out of the sheep that tithe their money to them. Seems to cheer them up doesn't it ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites gjhdiver 0 #75 June 19, 2008 QuoteWhat really was your motive posting that image? Receive some 'haha' replies by those who carry your same belief system or to offend those who take very seriously the ultimate sacrifice they believe Jesus did for them? Jesus was just a carpenter, and not a very good one it seems. After all, he got nailed for the last job he did. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next Page 3 of 8 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. 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CoderHead 0 #66 June 18, 2008 How do you know that the "Pearly Gates" are intended to keep souls out instead of keeping souls in. Think about it. Sorry beowulf, that was not intended for you.He who laughs last didn't get the joke. Freefall Express Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #67 June 18, 2008 It's not my fantasy world. In fantasy world the rules can be what ever you want them to be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CoderHead 0 #68 June 18, 2008 QuoteHow exactly is it being rational to deny something you cant prove? Or istnt rather that you dont want to be as "rational" as you think.Me not believing in a great, white-bearded daddy in the sky is irrational? I'm not denying what I cannot prove. I'm denying what you cannot prove. QuoteRepent and become born again and you will see him as he only reveals himself to the pure in heart... Nope, you're right. You're not pushing your beliefs on me. Thanks for the clarification. I was so wrong. Also, I don't feel guilty of sin. I do what I do and get on with my life without harming others in the process, and I do that without the fear of eternal consequences. QuoteIt would be like me posting an image of your slaughtered family and mocking it.The man in the picture is not your family. The man in the picture is not Jesus. Jesus is not your family. God is not your biological father. This is an image with a funny caption. I'll give you that it's inflammatory toward a group of people with similar beliefs based on the icon that the man pictured is intended to represent. But that's all. Quoteyou risk denying and rejecting his greatest expression of Grace knowing the consequncesWhat grace? What consequences? When you think about a soul in eternal joy or eternal suffering, does that honestly make sense to you? Let me ask you this: where do all these souls come from? Is there a soul factory in Heaven? Where is your soul located? Can you point it out on an x-ray? MRI? CT scan? Does the Bible explain that one? I'm sorry, but I feel no fear for the eternal state of my soul.He who laughs last didn't get the joke. Freefall Express Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #69 June 18, 2008 Till you can prove that Christianity isn't some fantasy world based on the Bible then I will continue to see it all as that. For me to believe it you will need to present real evidence that can be tested. You seem to have trouble with the concept of evidence. I need scientific evidence. Tangible evidence that can be duplicated. Not feelings or any thing subjective. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rynodigsmusic 0 #70 June 18, 2008 QuoteI have read the Bible and I didn't experience any sort of "spirtual awakening". I didn't find any other "life". I didn't apparently get out of it what you did. How can you promise me that on the other side of a door I don't see and you have no evidence of that there is some sort of "life" that you think is greater then the current life I am living? It's a fantasy land you have constructed for your self. Did you repent of your sins, and fill your heart with remorse? Accept Jesus as the atonement for those sins and pray to be baptised in the holy spirit? Have you humbled yourself in front of God behind closed doors and bowed to his power? Because, I promise you with all my heart if you do these things he will reveal himself and you will see a life so beautiful and full of spirit. The only thing we can do in this life to be united with God in spirit is to confess our sins to him and ask for his forgiveness. Jesus is the only acceptable forgiveness to find life right here on earth. If you do these things, I promise you will find life. Repentance is the door, but God knows the heart and he knows when the repentance is sincere and when it is not. Life is a gift, there is nothing we can do to find it. It is only given through repentance and acceptance of the Holy Spirit. The key question is do you desire to leave the world, for this gift? Im afraid that death must be revealed in you before you will desire life. God gives on the measure you desire him to give. This is the message of the Gospel, and I can testify to its truth as can many others."We didn't start the fire" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CoderHead 0 #71 June 18, 2008 QuoteThis is the message of the Gospel, and I can testify to its truth as can many others. You forgot to add the word "subjectively" to the end of your sentence. Give us something tangible. That's my challenge to you. Stop speaking in parables.He who laughs last didn't get the joke. Freefall Express Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #72 June 18, 2008 What really was your motive posting that image? Receive some 'haha' replies by those who carry your same belief system or to offend those who take very seriously the ultimate sacrifice they believe Jesus did for them? Good thing for you we're not radical Muslims. _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #73 June 18, 2008 Quote What really was your motive posting that image? Receive some 'haha' replies by those who carry your same belief system or to offend those who take very seriously the ultimate sacrifice they believe Jesus did for them? Good thing for you we're not radical Muslims. I thought it was funny and figured some here would view it similarly. Of course I realized there would be some who failed to see the humor in it, which is why I posted it in Speaker's Corner rather than the Bonfire. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gjhdiver 0 #74 June 18, 2008 Quote Be honest now. What do you think about spirituality? It's bollocks. Quote About enlightenment? I achieved true enlightenment the day I saw through and promptly abandoned all religion and superstition. I live my life without fear of imaginary friends. Quote You dont believe in anything? With death being just as much a part of life as the air we breath, you dont think it could even be possible that because we know so little about death, that there could be literally a whole other world on the other side? Not a fucking chance. There's lots of living things. Are you seriously telling me that there is an afterlife with every last insect, plant, bacteria, dinosaur, animal, and fish in it ? Bit crowded wouldn't you say ? I know, I know, your magic book has a get out clause for that. Just the talking monkeys get to play. Quote It just seems a bit ignorant to me that one would completely deny even the possiblity that life doesnt die beyond death. Unless you are fully satisfied believing that your flesh is all there is to your actual existance....but does your mind truly tell you that? Yep, and I've seen bugger all evidence to the contrary. Quote Isnt your mind capable of wonder and hope? Dont we have an imagination to explore the unseen and to even experience a sort of motivation in that? We do. It's called science and reason, and it's nice to say that they are doing a great job of destroying the hopeless bullshit that is organized religion. Seriously though, I don't really care what you believe, as long as you don't try to enact your particular superstition into public policy. Quote Do you believe that money cant buy happiness? Not on it's own, but it sure as hell can allow you to be miserable in comfort. Organized religions are awash in money conned out of the sheep that tithe their money to them. Seems to cheer them up doesn't it ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gjhdiver 0 #75 June 19, 2008 QuoteWhat really was your motive posting that image? Receive some 'haha' replies by those who carry your same belief system or to offend those who take very seriously the ultimate sacrifice they believe Jesus did for them? Jesus was just a carpenter, and not a very good one it seems. After all, he got nailed for the last job he did. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
