John McCain - 10 things to know about him

[skydyvr 0]

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I am supposed to show civility and respect for an organization that has systematically trashed the Constitution and my beloved country's international reputation and credibility?

Yes, if you want to sell your ideas better.

Anyway, I am similar to you, minus the length of history and the depth of hate. I walked away from the Republican party too, but I haven't jumped over the aisle to the just-as-fucked-up Left. I am party-less I guess. Do you actually find the dems any less repugnant?

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[skydyvr 0]

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Then women asserted their own rights to have a career and now we're at a point where most families can't survive without both parents working. That's certainly a decline in the standards of living for the middle class.

The huge IRS bill most of us pay plays no small part in getting mom out the door.

Big Government -> big IRS bill -> mom has to work -> kids don't get properly raised -> society goes to shit.

Thanks Big Government.

. . =(_8^(1)

[kallend 1,649]

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Then women asserted their own rights to have a career and now we're at a point where most families can't survive without both parents working. That's certainly a decline in the standards of living for the middle class.

The huge IRS bill most of us pay plays no small part in getting mom out the door.

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And it's STILL less than needed to pay our way.

Staying in Iraq for another 100 years will keep it that way, too.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[georgerussia 0]

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Just to continue our discussion from the previous thread, it was/is a big mess.

No, it was not mess. It was very clever exploitation of the entitlement generation's main feature - their "entitlement" to get rich by doing nothing. It was no different than casino or lottery ads showing real people who won a lot of money.

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You had people who knew what they were doing when they made bad decisions but you also had many people who were clueless that were preyed upon.

Yep, I only heard about those nameless people, but never seen or read a direct interview with them. So far _every_ interview with yet another "predatory lending victim" shows that the main reason people jumped into this was to make money, and they KNEW they cannot afford to keep this property. And if you talk about the people who believed everything they were told, and signed the papers without looking on them - they were not clueless, they were fools.

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Some wanted to access their equity at any price and others were talked/tricked into deals, sometimes fraudulently, just to get those huge commissions. Greed was hitting everyone pretty hard.

Maybe. I, however, know several people who not only LIED about their income in the loan application - they even falsified paystubs to support claimed income. I agree that some mortgage brokers kept their eyes shut on obvious false information, and probably some even suggested their cliens to lie in loan applications. However nobody was FORCED to get a mortgage in such a way, and it was always the person's decision.

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Yesterday on NPR they had an interesting story that touched on this. It's worth the listen/read.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=89505982

Thanks for the link. I was listening to the story, but missed a lot (my English is still far from perfect). I do not agree with everything there though.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[kelpdiver 2]

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Then women asserted their own rights to have a career and now we're at a point where most families can't survive without both parents working. That's certainly a decline in the standards of living for the middle class.

The huge IRS bill most of us pay plays no small part in getting mom out the door.

Big Government -> big IRS bill -> mom has to work -> kids don't get properly raised -> society goes to shit.

Thanks Big Government.

Have you looked at historical tax rates? Until Reagan came in, the highest tax bracket was 70%, that persisted until the end of his terms. State taxes in CA were likely lower back then, but I don't think the tax burden was much better.

[rehmwa 2]

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another 100 years

Wow, time sure has flown by

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[idrankwhat 0]

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another 100 years

Wow, time sure has flown by

He's just referring to that firey, quick tounged, CiC applicant's own words.

Q: President Bush has talked about our staying in Iraq for 50 years — (cut off by McCain)

McCAIN: Make it a hundred.

[skydyvr 0]

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Have you looked at historical tax rates? Until Reagan came in, the highest tax bracket was 70%, that persisted until the end of his terms. State taxes in CA were likely lower back then, but I don't think the tax burden was much better.

Fed rates may be lower today, but still too high if you think the govt has it's hands in too many pies. So, mom and dad both have to get out and make money to feed the beast.

. . =(_8^(1)

[funjumper101 15]

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The difference being he is trying to make it stated policy of the US. You don't see the distinction?

Thats bullshit. When Mukasey was going through confirmation hearings, the Democrats were focusing on waterboarding. Now they are working on a bill to ban it. They are trying to force the President's hand on it. How does that amount to pushing it as stated national policy?

Can I get you to condemn WJC because he did nothing about it on his watch?

There is a story in the news today with great detail about the genesis of the "legalization" of torture by shrub lackeys. They have since retracted their so called "legalization" of torture. It was official government policy under shrubco for a period of time. You cannot explain that away.

What will the righties do if Hilary manages to become president and starts asserting the level of power that shrub managed to? They'll be screaming bloody murder at the top of their lungs, thats what. Their silence while shrubco fucked over the Constitution was deafening. If any dem starts doing similar things, the right wing media will be all over it. Unlike what shrub has gotten away with, so far.

Like a good righty, you bring up WJC as though he is somehow responsible for shrub's torture policies. An interesting leap with no basis in fact. It is the standard method used by righties for absolving shrubco of any responsibilty for 9/11, the Iraq occupation, the record deficits, the economy, etc, etc. It's Clintons fault. If only he had done XYZ.
Funny thing is that if you were old enough to be aware of the reality of the times, the rescums did everything they could to prevent and disrupt WJC from using military force to prevent terror attacks. They hamstrung and prevented domestic initiatives. When the Dems threatened to filibuster to stop some of the worst exceeses of the rescums, the rescums threatened to REWRITE THE RULES to prevent filibustering. It was called the "Nuclear Option". The express intent was to suppress dissent. Is it possible to be more un-American than that? The worst part of that shit is that the rescums have used filibustering to stop the passage of bills to stop funding the war, among other things, since the Dems got control of the House. Look it up yourself if you don't believe me. That is among the reasons why I write rescum instead of Republican. They aren't Republicans any more, and haven't been for a long time. They are a cancer on our system. A virulent metastasizing cancer that has infected the country.

You may be one of the millions of righties that has buy the BS that Clinton did nothing after the first attack on the World Trade Center. All of these millions would be WRONG. If you were aware of the facts, you would know that the people who planned and executed the attacks were arrested, tried and convicted of the crime. They are in US Jails now. In other words, the entire matter was handled within the scope and context of our legal system. Unlike shrub, the neocons, and a lot of righties, the majority of the people in the USA believe in the Constitution and the rule of law. Too bad the rescums don't. It seems that a lot of the young folks that don't know history well think this is all perfectly OK. That kind of thinking is really scary.

Were you an adult during the eighties?
In other words, did you live through the times and keep up on the news every day?
I did. A friend of mine was injured in the first attack. The facts of the situation mattered a lot to me. I followed the story very closely. And I KNOW what the facts are. Not the revisionist history that many credulous people believe.

There were many planned attacks that were stopped by the Clinton administration. You wouldn't know much about it because there was little on no publicity, by design. I have family that was involved in some of the operations. What they hint at is pretty impressive. They can't talk about details. When they hear idiots say that "Clinton did nothing", it pisses them off severely. They know the reality of what happened.
shrubco and the rescums successfully use the Goebbels methods of propaganda and manipulation. It worked well then and has worked well in this decade. The sheeple follow along pretty well, until they start to get a clue. They seem to have gotten a clue as shrub's approval rating is 27%.

[skydyvr 0]

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Can I get you to condemn WJC because he did nothing about it on his watch?

Short answer: "No"

. . =(_8^(1)

[funjumper101 15]

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I am supposed to show civility and respect for an organization that has systematically trashed the Constitution and my beloved country's international reputation and credibility?

Yes, if you want to sell your ideas better.

Anyway, I am similar to you, minus the length of history and the depth of hate. I walked away from the Republican party too, but I haven't jumped over the aisle to the just-as-fucked-up Left. I am party-less I guess. Do you actually find the dems any less repugnant?

I find the Dems to be substantially less repugnant that the rescums, but repugnant never the less.

I have to hold my nose against the stench to vote for anyone nowadays.

The only way to balance out the far right rescums is to go far left. If you just bail and do nothing then you are part of the problem. Make it clear that you are Republican, but can't vote for the rescums, and address the info to the local party reps. Then vote Dem for now. IF enough Republicans did this, the rescums would be out and the GOP could get back on track. Doing nothing is not a realistic option.

[rehmwa 2]

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I find the Dems to be substantially less repugnant that the rescums, but repugnant never the less.

I have to hold my nose against the stench to vote for anyone nowadays.

The only way to balance out the far right rescums is to go far left. If you just bail and do nothing then you are part of the problem. Make it clear that you are Republican, but can't vote for the rescums, and address the info to the local party reps. Then vote Dem for now. IF enough Republicans did this, the rescums would be out and the GOP could get back on track. Doing nothing is not a realistic option.

this is great, and likely the exact viewpoint of 45% of the citizens.

in fact, switch the terms Dems and Reps in there and you probably get another 45% of the populace's viewpoints

the remaining 10% are hopeless sheep split between the two parties

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[jcd11235 0]

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this is great, and likely the exact viewpoint of 45% of the citizens.

in fact, switch the terms Dems and Reps in there and you probably get another 45% of the populace's viewpoints

the remaining 10% are hopeless sheep split between the two parties

I think you're overestimating the percentage of citizens that even care enough to bother voting.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[packerboy 3]

I don't know who's worse off... you Americans trying to decide between the lesser of two evils, or us Canadians who typically need to find the smarter of the two idiots.

With all due respect, at the very least you get rid of the evil idiot and you'll be better off no matter what happens!

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In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson

[idrankwhat 0]

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With all due respect, at the very least you get rid of the evil idiot and you'll be better off no matter what happens!

Unless the winner still can't remember who our enemies are.

[packerboy 3]

I was talking about Bush, not Al Qaeda!

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In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson

[idrankwhat 0]

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I was talking about Bush, not Al Qaeda!

Oh Al! I heard McCain talking about some guy named Albert Kaeda. Sounded like he didn't care much for him
Actually I knew who you were talking about. I just want to make sure that his successor understands the difference between Sunni and Shia, Iran, al Qaeda, etc. Apparently McCain "misspoke" again in while he was talking to General Petraeus the other day. He's flying solo now. No Lieberman necessary for the correction.

MCCAIN: Do you still view al Qaeda in Iraq as a major threat?

PETRAEUS: It is still a major threat, though it is certainly not as major a threat as it was say 15 months ago.

MCCAIN: Certainly not an obscure sect of the Shi’ites overall?

PETREAUS: No.

MCCAIN: Or Sunnis or anybody else.

[packerboy 3]

I don't think it makes much difference to him. That's the problem. If McCain is as crazy as they say he is, I wouldn't want to live ANYWHERE over there at all.

Simple solution to a complex problem right? Blow it all up. Kill em all.

God, I hope you guys have the guts to try Obama.

Gl with that. I'll take the snow.

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In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson

[piper17 1]

While he wasn't my first choice on the conservative side, I'll take McCain over the racist liars that the Dems are currently trying to choose between.

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling

[Amazon 7]

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Simple solution to a complex problem right? Blow it all up. Kill em all.

The trouble is that there are fundamentalists in control of our government who think that is fulfilling biblical prophecy. I really think they are trying to do a BRING IT ON.... with the whole Armegeddon thing... hopeing against hope that doing so will bring Christ back to straighten it all out.

[kelpdiver 2]

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You may be one of the millions of righties that has buy the BS that Clinton did nothing after the first attack on the World Trade Center. All of these millions would be WRONG. If you were aware of the facts, you would know that the people who planned and executed the attacks were arrested, tried and convicted of the crime. They are in US Jails now. In other words, the entire matter was handled within the scope and context of our legal system. Unlike shrub, the neocons, and a lot of righties, the majority of the people in the USA believe in the Constitution and the rule of law. Too bad the rescums don't. It seems that a lot of the young folks that don't know history well think this is all perfectly OK. That kind of thinking is really scary.

Were you an adult during the eighties?
In other words, did you live through the times and keep up on the news every day?
I did. A friend of mine was injured in the first attack. The facts of the situation mattered a lot to me. I followed the story very closely. And I KNOW what the facts are. Not the revisionist history that many credulous people believe.

The first bombing took place in the 90s, so I'm not following your tirade well.

Convicting those who executed the first attack is as effective as pissing on the bones of the 19 who crashed the 4 planes the second time around, and say that all the US could do would be to prosecute those we had hands on was the failing of the Clinton Administration. He was a domestic President, not a foreign affairs one. He always was more interested within. That's not entirely bad - the current President is completely ignoring the domestic side.

But the proper response to the first bombings would have been to go after those outside out soil that directed it. The same people who came back and did it again with much greater success in 2001. Bush blowing up Afghanistan in 2001/02 sent a message that there will be consequences again. Total success - not close, the Taliban still exist. But they definitely got bloodied up in the process.

[funjumper101 15]

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You may be one of the millions of righties that has buy the BS that Clinton did nothing after the first attack on the World Trade Center. All of these millions would be WRONG. If you were aware of the facts, you would know that the people who planned and executed the attacks were arrested, tried and convicted of the crime. They are in US Jails now. In other words, the entire matter was handled within the scope and context of our legal system. Unlike shrub, the neocons, and a lot of righties, the majority of the people in the USA believe in the Constitution and the rule of law. Too bad the rescums don't. It seems that a lot of the young folks that don't know history well think this is all perfectly OK. That kind of thinking is really scary.

Were you an adult during the eighties?
In other words, did you live through the times and keep up on the news every day?
I did. A friend of mine was injured in the first attack. The facts of the situation mattered a lot to me. I followed the story very closely. And I KNOW what the facts are. Not the revisionist history that many credulous people believe.

The first bombing took place in the 90s, so I'm not following your tirade well.

Convicting those who executed the first attack is as effective as pissing on the bones of the 19 who crashed the 4 planes the second time around, and say that all the US could do would be to prosecute those we had hands on was the failing of the Clinton Administration. He was a domestic President, not a foreign affairs one. He always was more interested within. That's not entirely bad - the current President is completely ignoring the domestic side.

But the proper response to the first bombings would have been to go after those outside out soil that directed it. The same people who came back and did it again with much greater success in 2001. Bush blowing up Afghanistan in 2001/02 sent a message that there will be consequences again. Total success - not close, the Taliban still exist. But they definitely got bloodied up in the process.

You don't have a clue as to facts surrounding the February 26, 1993 attack on the WTC. When you do some research and get your facts straight, try again. Wiki is pretty accurate, based on a quick skim of the content.

You also don't seem to have a clue about what happened in Serbia and Bosnia-Herzegovina. Characterizing Clinton as a "domestic" president is a page right out of the righties revisionist history.

Why didn't we invade Saudi Arabia if we wanted to go after those responsible for 9/11? All but one were Saudi nationals. The money came through Saudi. The Wahabist version of Islam comes from Saudi. Usama Bin Laden is a Saudi national.

You also don't have a clue as to when the Taliban took control of Afghanistan. Take a look at

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/taliban-time.html

While you are at it, look into the origins of the Taliban and al-Qaeda. You will find that the genesis comes from the Reagan administration's support for the people who were fighting the Russian invasion of Afghanistan. The likely outcome of helping the "freedom fighters" was well covered in the press during that time. The predictions that were laughed off by the Reaganites happened exactly as expected.

I lived through the times. I don't depend on history books to know what happened, and when.

[funjumper101 15]

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While he wasn't my first choice on the conservative side, I'll take McCain over the racist liars that the Dems are currently trying to choose between.

You prefer the racist old white guy that doesn't know the key players in Iraqi politics and has admitted that "domestic economics" is not an area of expertise?

How about you step back and take a look at the bigger picture?

Try picking the most qualified candidate based on ability, not carefully edited inflammatory video.

[kelpdiver 2]

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You don't have a clue as to facts surrounding the February 26, 1993 attack on the WTC.

I know it happened in the 90s, as opposed to the 80s, so that puts me ahead of you, bub.

[funjumper101 15]

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You don't have a clue as to facts surrounding the February 26, 1993 attack on the WTC.

I know it happened in the 90s, as opposed to the 80s, so that puts me ahead of you, bub.

Where did I write that that anything happened to the WTC in the eighties? Try reading and re-reading what I posted.

Did you not understand the part of my post that spoke of the results of the Reagan administration's support of the "freedom fighters" in Afghanistan, during the Russian occupation?

Did you know that Russia invaded and occupied Afghanistan? Here is a quote from Wiki -

begin quoted text>>>
Initially Soviet deployment of the 40th Army in Afghanistan began on August 7, 1978. The final troop withdrawal began on May 15, 1988, and ended on February 15, 1989. Due to the interminable and inconclusive nature of the war, the conflict in Afghanistan has often been referred to as the Soviet equivalent of the United States' Vietnam War.
<<< end quoted text

You might want to read up on the arms that Reagan's adminstration provided during that conflict, and who they gave them to.

I know that these facts conflict with the righties canonization of Reagan. He wasn't a saint. His administration fucked up royally on a lot of things. Look up the Iran/Contra Affair. The fuckers never went to jail because shrub1 pardoned them. Here's a list from Wiki -

Caspar W. Weinberger (1988 Several counts of perjury, See Iran-Contra Affair)
Elliott Abrams (1988 Two counts of unlawfully withholding information. See Iran-Contra Affair)
Duane R. Clarridge (1991 Seven counts of perjury and false statements, See Iran-Contra Affair)
Alan D. Fiers (1991 Two misdemeanor counts of withholding information from the Congress, See Iran-Contra Affair)
Clair George
(1991 Ten counts of perjury, false statements and obstruction)
(1992 two felony charges of false statements and perjury before Congress — see Iran-Contra Affair)
Robert C. McFarlane (1988 See Iran-Contra Affair)

Were you aware that once the "Contract on America" was executed in 1994, when the rescums took control of Congress, that, among other things, the rescums did NOT believe in using the military to resolve conflicts outside the US? It was called "nation-building" and was held to be a terrible thing for the USA to do. You can even find shrub himself on Youtube running his mouth on the issue, back when he was Guvner W. of Texas. IIRC, It was about 1998 or so when he spoke on the issue. All of the accomplishments in the Balkans conflict happened IN SPITE of the virulent campaign against it by the rescums.

You might not believe this, but it is true. Look it up for yourself. Ask your parents and their siblings. They must have been around then.

Sorry to burst your bubble.
Just like Reagan said - Your heart tells you one thing, while the facts say another.

The facts show the truth. Not righty spin.

The first terrorist attack on the WTC was on 2/26/93. Quoted from Wiki -

Ramzi Yousef, born in Kuwait, began in 1991 to plan a bombing attack within the United States. Yousef's uncle Khalid Shaikh Mohammed Ali Fadden, who later was considered "the principal architect of the 9/11 attacks," gave him advice and tips over the phone, and funded him with a US$660 wire transfer.[4]
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Khalid Shaikh Mohammed wasn't part of al-Qaeda when the attack was planned and executed. He later did join al-Qaeda. Take a look at his biography for more info.