Gravitymaster 0 #26 December 27, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Quote BTW.. Happy Winter Solstice. That was last week. Sooooo...Next you'll be claiming Jesus was born on Dec. 25th? ?? The solstice was last week, and Jesus almost certainly wasn't born on Dec 25th. Oh, sorry. I didn't realize it was a one day only deal. Like people say Merry Christmas before and after Dec. 25th. Seems like a pretty restrictive holiday with too many rules. I imagined lights and other shiney ornaments still hanging from a Sundial. . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #27 December 27, 2007 It doesn't seem to matter which flavour you are as a politician, you are always going to get it in the neck from one side or the other....... (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
auburnguy 0 #28 December 27, 2007 All indications at this point lead to Musharraf NOT being behind it. I as well as many journalist friends of mine believe it was militants, she wanted to crack down on the waziristan region which has spiraled out of control since the early 1990's and is currently considered one of the most if not the most dangerous place on earth. It is the strong hold for the militant Islamic leadership in the world, believed and widely accepted as the hiding place for bin laden as wall as zawahiri. The last thing they want is a woman in any sort of position of power."If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way." - Homer Simpson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #29 December 27, 2007 QuoteIt doesn't seem to matter which flavour you are as a politician, you are always going to get it in the neck from one side or the other....... Agreed, we could have a perfect POTUS, and someone would want to kill him/her Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #30 December 27, 2007 Quote Quote So why is it that when we don't like a candidate in our country, we just postwhore about it on the Internet, but in Pakistan, they shoot the candidate & blow themselves up? Dude, if you insist on setting yourself up for it - which 1st world nation had 15 assassination attempts (2 successful) on sitting heads of state in the 20th century? well, at least when these attempts happen, we don't view the would-be assassin as a great hero or martyr or something. No matter how much we might personally dislike the current President, we always view the assassins as nutcases (which they usually are). Some people in those cultures glorify the nutcases. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #31 December 27, 2007 Commentary from Council on Foreign Relations by a Bruce Riedel (affiliated with Brookings Institution, former defense and intelligence official (NSC & NIC) in the Pres. G.H.W. Bush and Clinton adminstrations) on Al Qa'eda & Pres Bhutto's assassination: "It was almost certainly the work of al-Qaeda or al-Qaeda’s Pakistani allies. She has been the target of assassination attempts by al-Qaeda before. Their objective is to destabilize the Pakistani state, to break up the secular political parties, to break up the army so that Pakistan becomes a politically failing state [emphasis nerdgirl] in which the Islamists in time can come to power, much as they have in other failing states where al-Qaeda knows its chances for success are higher." His recommendations (without any real executables): "Instead of stability we have acts of terror in the military capital of the country, Rawalpindi. And instead of democracy, we have one of the leading democratic advocates in the Muslim world killed. The only way that Pakistan is going to be able to fight terrorism effectively is to have a legitimate, democratically-elected, secular government that can rally the Pakistani people to engage al-Qaeda, the Taliban, and other extremist movements. We should now press for the democratic movement to move forward." If the most likely suspect would have been the ISI, the Pakistani Army, or some deranged individual that would have been a less troubling scenario in many ways. Speculatively, if Al Qa'eda has succeeded in assassinating a major candidate and former President, what does that say regarding to their capabilities and extent of influence? VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #32 December 27, 2007 Quote Dunno, ask a Taliban, or DU member. What's "DU"? "Depleted uranium" is the only thing that comes to mind & that doesn't make sense to me. VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,257 #33 December 27, 2007 Quotewell, at least when these attempts happen, we don't view the would-be assassin as a great hero or martyr or something. No matter how much we might personally dislike the current President, we always view the assassins as nutcases (which they usually are). Some people in those cultures glorify the nutcases. Now we're down to 'some people, somewhere'? I can say with certainty that 'some people' approved of the Kennedy assassination. Regardless, as a citizen of the USA you're not the best placed person to talk about "Them thar heathen countries that shoot politicians!" BTW, what do you think the situation re assassinations in the US would be like if it had been violently and artificially formed 60 years ago, was constantly on the edge of war with a nuclear Mexico and was currently ruled by a military dictator?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,257 #34 December 27, 2007 QuoteSpeculatively, if Al Qa'eda has succeeded in assassinating a major candidate and former President, what does that say regarding to their capabilities and extent of influence? Not a huge amount? Without knowing what the security was like, would it really have been that difficult to smuggle a gun and some explosives into the crowd?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #35 December 27, 2007 Quote Quote Dunno, ask a Taliban, or DU member. What's "DU"? "Depleted uranium" is the only thing that comes to mind & that doesn't make sense to me. VR/Marg Democratic Underground Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #36 December 27, 2007 QuoteWithout knowing what the security was like, would it really have been that difficult to smuggle a gun and some explosives into the crowd? Hm. I think Pakistan is a "shall issue" state. So probably not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
auburnguy 0 #37 December 28, 2007 If by shall issue you mean has some of the largest arms bazaars on the planet. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9xf62PKC5M"If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way." - Homer Simpson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richards 0 #38 December 28, 2007 QuoteQuoteShe was a dead woman walking from the instant she got off the plane on her return from exile. It was just a matter of time. Then why did she go back? She had money, fame...could have made plenty more of both giving lecture dinners, and writing a book. I was kind of wondering this when she put herself back in harms way in the first place. My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
auburnguy 0 #39 December 28, 2007 It wasnt about the money or fame, it was about doing the right thing. http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/12/27/bhutto.photographer/index.html"If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way." - Homer Simpson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #40 December 28, 2007 Sounds like a good reason for George II to push Mushy for an all out assualt by our troops in the Tribal Areas since he cant do it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richards 0 #41 December 28, 2007 Quote[replyit was about doing the right thing. [url] People still do that? My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #42 December 28, 2007 <> Maybe some politicians actually are Credible and had her country at the top of her list of priorities - we're so used to thinking that they are all scum sucking leeches. R.I.P (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #43 December 28, 2007 Officials: Al Qaeda claims responsibility for Bhutto killing http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/12/27/bhutto.dhs.alqaeda/index.html WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The FBI and the Department of Homeland Security issued a bulletin Thursday citing an alleged claim of responsibility by al Qaeda for former Pakistani Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto's assassination, a DHS official told CNN. But such a claim has not appeared on radical Islamist Web sites that regularly post such messages from al Qaeda and other militant groups. The source of the claim was apparently Italian news agency, Adnkronos International (AKI), which said that al Qaeda Afghanistan commander and spokesman Mustafa Abu Al-Yazid had telephoned the agency to make the claim. "We terminated the most precious American asset which vowed to defeat [the] mujahadeen," AKI quoted Al-Yazid as saying. According to AKI, al Qaeda No. 2 Ayman al-Zawahiri set the wheels in motion for the assassination in October. One Islamist Web site repeated the claim, but that Web site is not considered a reliable source for Islamist messages by experts in the field. The DHS official said the claim was "an unconfirmed open source claim of responsibility" and the bulletin was sent out at about 6 p.m. to state and local law enforcement agencies. The official characterized the bulletin as "information sharing." Ross Feinstein, spokesman for Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell, said the U.S. intelligence community is monitoring the situation and trying to figure out who is responsible for the assassination. "We are not in a position to confirm who may be responsible," Feinstein said. Feinstein said that the intelligence community "obviously analyze(s) open source intelligence," but he would not say whether the community believes the claim has any validity. For now, he said, there is "no conclusion" as to who may be responsible. Earlier, DHS spokesman Russ Knocke said Bhutto's assassination had not prompted "any adjustments to our security posture." "Of course, we continue to closely monitor events as they unfold overseas," he said._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vortexring 0 #44 December 28, 2007 Al Qaeda certainly wanted to kill her, but with many of Bhutto's supporters claiming Pervez Musharref is responsible, will they openly admit responsibility themselves if indeed they were behind the murder? It could be thought that Musharref may well be behind this, although I think it more likely to be Al Qaeda - and I'm guessing they'll not exactly be quick to admit it either. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article3100052.ece 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #45 December 28, 2007 For anyone that wanted to see her dead, it is a win-win situation, be quiet, do not claim responsibility, and let the other faction take the brunt of the retaliation. Textbook example of assasination don't you think? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #46 December 28, 2007 According to MSNBC there is a recording of AQ types praising their followers for the assasination.. Sounds like all the evidence we need to invade Waziristan with Mushy's blessings...time for more of the George's never ending war... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #47 December 28, 2007 Waziristan Canada with Mushy's blessings...time for more of the George's never ending war...>> Or somewhere else with absolutely nothing to do with the problem in hand - again (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #48 December 28, 2007 12/28/07 - 11:20 am EST - CNN breaking news: Pakistan's Interior Ministry now says that Bhutto died not from any wounds, but from hitting the sunroof of the car. Yes, I'm serious. So that clears it up. A simple product liability case. And if she signed a standard Third-World Politician's Motorcade Waiver©, it won't even be that. (Hmm...What's the Urdu word for "exhumation"?) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #49 December 28, 2007 Quote<> Or somewhere else with absolutely nothing to do with the problem in hand - again DUDE.. dont you know.. there never should have been a Canada in the first place...If there would have been a competent leader to kick your asses out of Quebec City instead of losing most of his men and having to retreat to Montreal. He ended up as a Brit General anyway...good reward for being a fuckup. Now back to Pakistan...I dont think it will be long at all before there willbe incursions across the border into the tribal areas by coalition forces going after the Taliban and AQ.... it should have been done back in 2001...go after the people who actually attacked the WTC. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #50 December 28, 2007 QuoteIf the most likely suspect would have been the ISI, the Pakistani Army, or some deranged individual that would have been a less troubling scenario in many ways. Speculatively, if Al Qa'eda has succeeded in assassinating a major candidate and former President, what does that say regarding to their capabilities and extent of influence? Nothing. For a start 'Al Qa'eda' is just an umbrella term that the Western governments use to describe very many extremist organisations who have and no actual command and control structure in the traditional sense and are quite fragmented. Also hitting Bhutto in a provincial town in the north of Pakistan is not exactly comparable to hitting GWB (or other well protected individual anywhere in the west.) They haven't yet been able to hit GPM although they've tried many times. Actually if this benifits anyone even more than GPM its the Americans who will get to keep their man in power that much longer. Nawaz Sherrif will be next no doubt.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
