Firefighters as Government Spies

[JohnRich 4]

News:

Firefighters taking new role as anti-terrorist eyes of the US government

Firefighters in major U.S. cities are being trained to take on a new role as lookouts for terrorism, raising concerns of eroding their standing as trusted American icons and infringing on people's privacy.

Unlike police, firefighters and emergency medical personnel need no warrants to enter hundreds of thousands of homes and buildings each year, which puts them in position to spot behavior that could indicate terror activity or planning...

The Homeland Security Department is testing a program with the New York City fire department to share intelligence information so firefighters are better prepared when they respond to emergency calls. Homeland Security also trains the New York City fire service how to identify material or behavior that may indicate terrorist activities. If it is successful, the government intends to expand the program to other major metropolitan areas...

When going to private residences, for example, they are told to be alert for a person who is hostile, uncooperative or expressing hate or discontent with the United States; unusual chemicals or other materials that seem out of place; ammunition, firearms or weapons boxes; surveillance equipment; still and video cameras; night-vision goggles; maps, photos, blueprints; police manuals, training manuals, flight manuals; and little or no furniture other than a bed or mattress...

Source: Herald Tribune

Dang, I guess if my kitchen stove catches on fire, before I call the fire department, I better first hide all my guns, cameras, maps and books!

But hey, if this is such a great idea, then they could also expand the training to include carpet cleaners, plumbers, electricians, carpenters, and other home repairmen, and meter readers too. Even the mailman!

[normiss 622]

no difference from the mail man calling the FBI because you get Soldier of Fortune and Firearms the same time you get the travel brochure for the vacation to DC....



pay cash for books, avoid the public library...

[akarunway 1]

Quote

News:

Firefighters taking new role as anti-terrorist eyes of the US government

Firefighters in major U.S. cities are being trained to take on a new role as lookouts for terrorism, raising concerns of eroding their standing as trusted American icons and infringing on people's privacy.

Unlike police, firefighters and emergency medical personnel need no warrants to enter hundreds of thousands of homes and buildings each year, which puts them in position to spot behavior that could indicate terror activity or planning...

The Homeland Security Department is testing a program with the New York City fire department to share intelligence information so firefighters are better prepared when they respond to emergency calls. Homeland Security also trains the New York City fire service how to identify material or behavior that may indicate terrorist activities. If it is successful, the government intends to expand the program to other major metropolitan areas...

When going to private residences, for example, they are told to be alert for a person who is hostile, uncooperative or expressing hate or discontent with the United States; unusual chemicals or other materials that seem out of place; ammunition, firearms or weapons boxes; surveillance equipment; still and video cameras; night-vision goggles; maps, photos, blueprints; police manuals, training manuals, flight manuals; and little or no furniture other than a bed or mattress...

Source: Herald Tribune

Dang, I guess if my kitchen stove catches on fire, before I call the fire department, I better first hide all my guns, cameras, maps and books!

But hey, if this is such a great idea, then they could also expand the training to include carpet cleaners, plumbers, electricians, carpenters, and other home repairmen, and meter readers too. Even the mailman!

Another step down the slippery slope. Remember. We have to keep you safe. It's for your own good. Fear tactics at work as usual. Fuckin sheep. Jeez

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[shropshire 0]

>

Don't change the subject ... this isn't the Bonfire

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Gene03 0]

George Orwell's 1984 in action. Coming soon to your town.

“The only fool bigger than the person who knows it all is the person who argues with him.

Stanislaw Jerzy Lec quotes (Polish writer, poet and satirist 1906-1966)

[Zipp0 1]

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no difference from the mail man calling the FBI because you get Soldier of Fortune and Firearms the same time you get the travel brochure for the vacation to DC....



pay cash for books, avoid the public library...

I guess they have an eye on me considering my ORM-D UPS shipments.......

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[ExAFO 0]

The law will catch up with this, making anything the firefighters find inadmissible. The Constitution is still alive despite Dubya's goon squads.

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[skycop 0]

This is nothing new, just being tweaked a little. Everyone is reading a little too much into this. I've done several search warrants where the fire department found stuff during a fire or emergency. It's not common practice, but it does happen. Notice I said search warrants, when the fire is out the exigent (don't think that's spelled right) circumstance stops, and the warrant process begins.
Most fireman don't want to be cops, and vice versa, however they are public employees with a duty to protect the public.
With that said, everyone likes firemen, they don't do stuff to tarnish that reputation, they'd have to leave the firehouse to do that.
What do firemen do; eat till they're sleepy, sleep till they're hungry............

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[JohnRich 4]

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I guess they have an eye on me considering my ORM-D UPS shipments.......

Let's see, he gets "Parachutist" magazine in the mail, and guns and ammo by UPS. So... that means that he's crazy, and he's well armed! Call the cops!

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

George Orwell's 1984 in action. Coming soon to your town.

Also in the news this week here in Houston is the story that the Houston Police Department has purchased a drone aircraft that will soon begin patrolling the skies over the city...

[kelpdiver 2]

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Quote

George Orwell's 1984 in action. Coming soon to your town.

Also in the news this week here in Houston is the story that the Houston Police Department has purchased a drone aircraft that will soon begin patrolling the skies over the city...

These are popping up all over the country, posing great concerns to the VFR rules of flight that they don't adhere to.

[2fat2fly 0]

As a firefighter, I locked down a scene and denied access to the owners long enough for a law enforcement cause and origin (arson must sound too bad) investigator to arrive and spot the meth lab. I don't think I did anything wrong or shady. Now that said-I never agreed with letting cops disguise themselves as FF to make a bust. Not because I think it's immoral or illegal, but because I didn't want to get shot at answering calls in crack town.

I am not the man. But the man knows my name...and he's worried

[akarunway 1]

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As a firefighter, I locked down a scene and denied access to the owners long enough for a law enforcement cause and origin (arson must sound too bad) investigator to arrive and spot the meth lab. I don't think I did anything wrong or shady. Now that said-I never agreed with letting cops disguise themselves as FF to make a bust. Not because I think it's immoral or illegal, but because I didn't want to get shot at answering calls in crack town.

Be carefull out there. Thanks for all your hard work.

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[2fat2fly 0]

Thanks, but those days are past-I had to get a real job

I am not the man. But the man knows my name...and he's worried

[akarunway 1]

Quote

Thanks, but those days are past-I had to get a real job

Was it non union at min. wage?

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[jenfly00 0]

Absolutely! Why not tap into other professions as well? Home Health Nurses are in a fantastic position to gather information for the police. Ambulance attendants and Meals on Wheels providers have regular access into the homes of potential terrorists, as well. The just need a little training and encouragement to do their civic duty.

The best source of information, however, would be the children. Mandatory classes could be instituted in our schools teaching children how to spot subversive behavior, literature and potential terrorist objects. Brief, painless debriefing sessions could be held on a regular basis and credit given as a Civics class.

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"O brave new world that has such people in it".

[skycop 0]

Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean people aren't watching you

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[champu 1]

Quote

The Homeland Security Department is testing a program with the New York City fire department to share intelligence information so firefighters are better prepared when they respond to emergency calls. Homeland Security also trains the New York City fire service how to identify material or behavior that may indicate terrorist activities. If it is successful, the government intends to expand the program to other major metropolitan areas...

If the alphabet soup has intelligence that dispatched firefighters are responding to a location that contains a weapons cache / haz-mat / potentially combative tenants, it's irresponsible not to have a way to let them know. Firefighters have a hard enough job as it is without having to deal with that crap.

As for reporting back findings after the fire is out, I'm a little divided. If the residence / location of the fire contained materials / activities that were illegal and contributed to the starting of the fire or potentially made the building unusually hazardous for the firefighters responding to the fire, I'm all for further investigations being brought up. But jeopardizing what firefighters do best by putting a bunch of non-related investigative responsibilities on their plate is a recipe for disaster.

[akarunway 1]

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Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean people aren't watching you

Out to get you.

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[normiss 622]

It's referred to as "Illegal search and seizure"

[jenfly00 0]

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It's referred to as "Illegal search and seizure"

Nope, they are J Q Citizens merely observing things and doing their duty to keep America safe.

Even if they were, search and seizure limitations are limitations on law enforcement, not nurses or children.

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"O brave new world that has such people in it".

[Amazon 7]

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Dang, I guess if my kitchen stove catches on fire, before I call the fire department, I better first hide all my guns, cameras, maps and books!

Especially BOOKS







At least they are not taking the books out and burning them......YET.

[normiss 622]

Evidence gained from a personal residence with the proper warrant is no admissable in court.
Been there.

[jenfly00 0]

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Evidence gained from a personal residence with the proper warrant is no admissable in court.
Been there.

Search warrants?!?!?!?! Dude, you're living in the past. This is the NEW America!

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"O brave new world that has such people in it".

[normiss 622]

thankfully the rights that were established in the past still hold true in court...maybe not in public or at the local cop shop...but once we get it before a judge...it still applies.