RIP Paul Tibbetts

[lisamariewillbe 1]

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Col. Tibbets supported your right to disagree as I do to.

NOW thats a reason to thank him. And you, it takes a big man to state his side and his understanding of those who do not condone the nukes.

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[billvon 2,450]

>instead discounting his contribution.

I didn't. I said he was a good soldier and served his country well. You disagree? Or did you just have to get your one shot in? Perhaps in the future you could do that in a thread that's not honoring our dead.

[NCclimber 0]

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But in terms of who we owe a bigger debt of gratitude to, I think they are the 20 year old soldiers who have lost their lives in our military. They have given up far more than Tibbets did, ...

IMO, their service and fortitude is far more impressive - and their reward far less - than Tibbets.

Nice tribute.

[billvon 2,450]

>>Perhaps in the future you could do that in a thread that's not honoring our dead.

>Nice tribute.

I guess you can't.

RIP Tibbets - and all the others who have died after (and especially while) serving their country.

[peregrinerose 0]

I never thought I'd say this, but I can actually see where LMWB is coming from.

WWII vets who have done heroic things die every day and we don't have thank you threads to all of them. Tibbetts doesn't deserve either the blame or the credit for dropping the bomb, he did as he was told to do as any soldier should in a war. He is neither more nor less heroic than any other soldier that did what he was told in WWII (or any other war for that matter).

It isn't a matter of loyalty to the US to have empathy for the thousands of civilians who died a brutal death as a result of the Enola Gay and her bomb. It's inhuman not to have some degree of sympathy for the fact that so many who had nothing to do with Japan's politics were killed. Yes, it probably saved as many or more lives than it took to drop the bomb, it was probably the right call, but doesn't mean it should be an easy one or that the death of civilians should be celebrated.

It's sad to me when any WWII vet dies, all the untold stories that go with them. At least Tibbetts story got to be told, it's the anonymous vets that take their heroism to the grave that I mourn for.... the loss of the history along with the person.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[warpedskydiver 0]

Col. Tibbets did much more to distinguish himself as a true hero beside dropping the bomb, please read up on that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Tibbets


[edit] Biography
Tibbets was born in Quincy, Illinois, and was the son of Paul Warfield Tibbets and Enola Gay Tibbets (nee Haggard). Although born in Illinois, Tibbets was raised in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, where his father was a confections wholesaler. The family was listed there in the 1920 U.S. Federal Population Census. The 1930 Census indicates his family had moved and was living in Des Moines, Iowa at the time. Sometime later, the family moved to Florida. He attended the University of Florida in Gainesville and was an initiated member of the Epsilon Zeta Chapter of Sigma Nu Fraternity in 1934.

On February 25, 1937, he enlisted as a flying cadet in the Army Air Corps at Fort Thomas, Kentucky. He was commissioned a second lieutenant in 1938 and received his wings at Kelly Field, Texas. Tibbets was named commanding officer of the 340th Bomb Squadron, 97th Heavy Bomb Group flying B-17 Flying Fortresses in March, 1942. Based at RAF Polebrook, he piloted the lead bomber on the first Eighth Air Force bombing mission in Europe on August 17, 1942, and later flew combat missions in the Mediterranean Theater of Operations until returning to the U.S. to test fly B-29 Superfortresses. "By reputation", Tibbets was "the best flier in the Army Air Force".[1]

In September 1944 he was selected to command the project at Wendover Army Air Field, Utah, that became the 509th Composite Group, in connection with the Manhattan Project's Project Alberta.

On August 5, 1945, Colonel Paul Tibbets formally named B-29 serial number 44-86292 Enola Gay after his mother (she was named after the heroine, Enola, of a novel her father had liked). On August 6, 1945, the Enola Gay departed Tinian Island in the Marianas with Tibbets at the controls at 2:45 a.m. for Hiroshima, Japan. The atomic bomb, codenamed Little Boy, was dropped over Hiroshima at 8:15 a.m. local time.

The film Above and Beyond (1952) depicted the World War II events involving Tibbets, with Robert Taylor starring as Tibbets and Eleanor Parker as his first wife, Lucy. In 1980, a made-for-television movie aired, again telling a possibly more fictionalized version of the story of Tibbets and his men, with Patrick Duffy (Bobby Ewing from "Dallas") playing the part of Tibbets and Kim Darby as Lucy. The film was called, Enola Gay: The Men, the Mission, the Atomic Bomb. Tibbets was also portrayed in the films Day One and The Beginning or the End.

Tibbets married his wife, Andrea, in about 1953 or 1954. In 1959, he was promoted to Brigadier General. He retired from the U.S. Air Force on August 31, 1966.

In the 1960s, Tibbets was posted as military attaché in India, but this posting was rescinded after protests. After retirement, he worked for Executive Jet Aviation, a Columbus, Ohio-based air taxi company, and was president from 1976 until he retired in 1987.

In 1976, he was criticized for re-enacting the bombing at an air show in Texas. Tibbets said it was not meant as an insult, but the U.S. government formally apologized when Japan complained[2].

In 1995, he called a planned 50th anniversary exhibition of the Enola Gay at the Smithsonian Institution, putting the bombing in context of the suffering it caused, a "damn big insult" [2].

An interview of Paul Tibbets can be seen in the 1982 movie Atomic Cafe. He was also interviewed in the 1970s British documentary series The World at War.

His grandson Lt. Col. Paul W. Tibbets, IV, as of 2006 is commander of the 393rd Bomb Squadron, flying the B-2 Spirit. The 393rd is one of two operational squadrons under the same unit his grandfather commanded, the 509th Bomb Wing.

Tibbets was interviewed extensively by Mike Harden of the Columbus (Ohio) Dispatch, and profiles appeared in the newspaper on anniversaries of the first dropping of an atomic bomb.

Tibbets generally expressed no regret regarding the decision to drop the bomb. In a 1975 interview he said: "I'm proud that I was able to start with nothing, plan it and have it work as perfectly as it did... I sleep clearly every night."[2]. In March 2005, he stated “If you give me the same circumstances, hell yeah, I'd do it again.”

There is no substance to the urban legend which states that Tibbets or other members of the Enola Gay crew later went insane with remorse. However, Robert Lewis, the co-pilot, commented (and wrote in his log book) "My God, what have we done?" after seeing the bomb's devastation, and later contributed a large donation to a fund meant to restore injured Hiroshima victims after tearfully greeting one on an episode of This Is Your Life. Claude Eatherly, pilot of the weather reconnaissance aircraft, Straight Flush, claimed to have experienced recurring guilt feelings that tormented him for the rest of his life.

Tibbets died in his Columbus, Ohio home on November 1, 2007 at age 92.[3] He had suffered small strokes and heart failure in his final years and had been in hospice care.[4][5]



Command pilot

Distinguished Service Cross
Distinguished Flying Cross
Air Medal
Purple Heart
Legion of Merit
Commendation Medal
European-African-Middle Eastern Campaign Medal
Asiatic-Pacific Campaign Medal
American Defense Service Medal
American Campaign Medal
World War II Victory Medal

[NCclimber 0]

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I never thought I'd say this, but I can actually see where LMWB is coming from.

WWII vets who have done heroic things die every day and we don't have thank you threads to all of them. Tibbetts doesn't deserve either the blame or the credit for dropping the bomb, he did as he was told to do as any soldier should in a war. He is neither more nor less heroic than any other soldier that did what he was told in WWII (or any other war for that matter).

One thing that distinguishes him is that he was aware of the consequences of his actions and did it anyway, for what was believed to be the "greater good". In my book, that's a heavy cross to bear.

RIP Paul Tibbetts

[peregrinerose 0]

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Col. Tibbets did much more to distinguish himself as a true hero beside dropping the bomb, please read up on that

I'm not sure where in my post I insinuated that that was all that he did.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[akarunway 1]

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Paul Tibbetts, pilot of the Enola Gay B-29, who dropped the bomb on Hiroshima, has died at age 92. His health had been in a steady decline for the last two months. RIP Colonel, and thanks for shortening the War by several years.

While I think we should have have bombed Tokyo instead of the H and N the man was just following orders. RIP

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[StreetScooby 5]

May he rest in peace. He was a great man, in many ways.

Quotes from Tibbetts:
“There is no morality in war,..."
"I didn’t start the war, but I was going to finish it."

These quotes are from this article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/01/obituaries/01cnd-tibbets.html?hp

I am not a fan of the NYTimes. But, this article strikes me as fair and balanced.

I am thankful our country had such men fighting for us during what must have been incredibly insane times. Our culture was at risk, and that culture responded effectively. Sometimes, I am concerned we would no longer do so in this day. At times, I feel I'm witnessing just such a lack of will to protect that which has given us our current way of life. May we be so lucky as to have more men like Tibbetts fighting for our country.

We are all engines of karma

[bozo 0]

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Col. Tibbets supported your right to disagree as I do to.

NOW thats a reason to thank him. And you, it takes a big man to state his side and his understanding of those who do not condone the nukes.

Nobody that I know condones nukes.
I do thank Col Tibbets for doing his duty......it allowed my dad to live out his life without having to invade Japan and subsequently allowing my birth and life.
Rest In Peace Soldier.

bozo
Pain is fleeting. Glory lasts forever. Chicks dig scars.

[juanesky 0]

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If not for Tibbets' effective carrying out of his mission, many Americans would have died in a land invasion of Japan.

I do not condone nuclear war.

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It's not becoming to be an ingrate.

Where in the "Your an American if" book does it state I must appreciate and be grateful to the thousands of people HUMANS who died that day, then the thousands later who died as they watched thier skin drip from thier body? Not to mention the DNA issues, the global issues etc.

Why must I thank this man? Did you wait till he died to thank him? Being american means I can have my own opinion, Im not denying he is considered an american war hero. He just isnt my hero, nor are those who made the choice to bring nukes into the war.

You can tell that to the chinese, you should not condone the murderous japanese govt-society of the time with the japanese systemic genocide of the chinese, and every race that came under their rule.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[juanesky 0]

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I never thought I'd say this, but I can actually see where LMWB is coming from.

WWII vets who have done heroic things die every day and we don't have thank you threads to all of them. Tibbetts doesn't deserve either the blame or the credit for dropping the bomb, he did as he was told to do as any soldier should in a war. He is neither more nor less heroic than any other soldier that did what he was told in WWII (or any other war for that matter).

It isn't a matter of loyalty to the US to have empathy for the thousands of civilians who died a brutal death as a result of the Enola Gay and her bomb. It's inhuman not to have some degree of sympathy for the fact that so many who had nothing to do with Japan's politics were killed. Yes, it probably saved as many or more lives than it took to drop the bomb, it was probably the right call, but doesn't mean it should be an easy one or that the death of civilians should be celebrated.

It's sad to me when any WWII vet dies, all the untold stories that go with them. At least Tibbetts story got to be told, it's the anonymous vets that take their heroism to the grave that I mourn for.... the loss of the history along with the person.

Maybe, but blatant ignorance to what happened in Okinawa during the US invasion, were the civilian population was committing suicide in droves, and killing each other (example) is a tactic that revisionists have used to indoctrinate people like her. Isn't it great the way Japanese ignores how they treated conquered civilians, and revise history to portray themselves as victims?

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[kallend 1,659]

NPR re-ran an interview with Colonel Tibbetts yesterday. Very interesting. Not sure if it was nationwide or just the Chicago station.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[NCclimber 0]

I heard it too. Good story.

Here's a link:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=15854465&ft=1&f=1001

[peregrinerose 0]

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Isn't it great the way Japanese ignores how they treated conquered civilians, and revise history to portray themselves as victims?

I don't think it's possible for any group as a whole to be a victim.... being a victim is the individuals' story. And there are shitloads of victims on both sides in any war. And a lot of cruelty on both sides in any war.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[nerdgirl 0]

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NPR re-ran an interview with Colonel Tibbetts yesterday. Very interesting. Not sure if it was nationwide or just the Chicago station.

I heard it too. Good story.

Here's a link:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=15854465&ft=1&f=1001

Thanks for the link.

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[warpedskydiver 0]

And in the war in the Pacific, alot more cruelty and suffering meeted out by the Japs.

Find a Veteran of the pacific war, and see if he does not enlighten you a bit.

We have a local road called Battaan Drive, gee I wonder why?

So many of our local boys were interned starved and tortured to death, that you could populate a small town with them.

[peregrinerose 0]

For crying out loud, do you really think I don't know the stories of what happened in Bataan? And other regions? I feel sorry for the victims of any war, whether they be civilian casualties that are required for the greater good or the Bataan marchers, or concentration camp dwellers. I don't think that empathy for people who have endured horrible situations needs to be limited to one side or another of a war.

Both of my grandfathers were WWII vets (one a bomber, on in the navy). Easy Company's re-enactors come to my DZ to earn their wings and a lot of the original Easy company members will be there for the weekend, I spent as much time as possible sitting with these men and listening to their stories of jumping into Normandy and how things changed between Normandy and later drops. Last summer one of the Tuskegee Airmen showed up at the DZ to watch for the day. He was 89 years old and told his story, not as much military, but what it was like growing up black in PA, then going down south for pilot training and dealing with the blatant racism down there that just didn't exist in his hometown in PA at the time.

I have immense respect for these guys. But I also have respect for the Japanese-Americans that were taken from their homes, job, schools and communities and stuck in camps purely because of their race during WWII, for the civilians who were victims first of their political leaders and then American bombs in H and N.

Having empathy for someone else who happens to be on the 'other side' in a war does not in any way belittle what people on our own side went through.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[ffp1974 0]

PBS's series on WWII was a great show! It really told the horror of war.

Many men were ask to do things in the war, that I doubt many people today would do.

But thank God they did. Or we would all be speaking german and eating sushi

[Royd 0]

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Cooks at the mess hall do thier duty to, I dont thank them personally.

Maybe you should, especially if they get your eggs just right. It might make their day.

[shropshire 0]

Absolutely.... in fact it's way more important to thank all of the people that you personally come into conact with and do a good job for you. .... Not just in the service but in all walks of life... It's just plain good manners.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Andy9o8 0]

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thank God they did. Or we would all be speaking german and eating sushi

God forbid we should have good beer and low-fat food.

[Gawain 0]

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Paul Tibbetts, pilot of the Enola Gay B-29, who dropped the bomb on Hiroshima, has died at age 92. His health had been in a steady decline for the last two months. RIP Colonel, and thanks for shortening the War by several years.

Indeed. His actions were truly of the sort that made a massive impact on our lives and the standing of the country he defended.

Agree or disagree, that's fine. What I think is truly sad from his passing is that he asked for an unmarked grave, out of concerns that it would be desecrated by those that cannot protest his contribution with tact and respect.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[ffp1974 0]

There is no way I can have empithy for the japanese or the germans in their plight during or after the war.