We don't serve illegals in Muskogee

[kallend 1,683]

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I didn't say it was right. I was challenging the previous assertion: "give the illegal a DL, and presto, a new voter."

Pretty close, under NVRA - I've not seen anything in it requiring any stringent proof. As an aside - I've registered to vote online when renewing my license online as well as in person - the license was accepted as proof of citizenship for voting.

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Just because the standard of proof is low doesn't mean that people are doing it in large numbers. It's not like it's s source of money (or sexual favors) and it IS a felony if you're caught..

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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[masterrig 1]

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I'm on the other side of this issue. The proverbial slippery slope could result in effectively criminalizing mere failure to carry one's ID on one's person, giving police the automatic right to arrest anyone who doesn't have it on them. Not in the United States of America, I say.

The way I see it is, it would be just like your driver's license. Stick the thing in your wallet and no problem. Just don't leave home without it! What happens if you are caught driving without your license? We can conjure-up all kinds of ugly things before something happens. I don't think, it would be all that bad.


Chuck

I understand what you're saying, Chuck...and on an emotional level, I agree with it.

However...there's no requirement (at least that I'm aware of) to have any sort of ID constantly available. I *do* know that people have been arrested under that type of circumstance, but IIRC, that wasn't the sole reason.

I'm against a de facto "national ID card" just because of the "Your papers, please!" possibility of it - look at how the Social Security card has been twisted from it's original use as registration in the SS system to a form of ID.

I sure do see your point, Mike. I wonder too if, the 'Your papers please', might be a bit knee-jerk. Hell, I don't know. I do feel, the bottom line is, we have to do something to distinguish actual citizens from illegals. Any ideas? We in this country, just let a problem get out of hand and now, we're paying for our 'good natured' attitude.


Chuck

[masterrig 1]

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I didn't say it was right. I was challenging the previous assertion: "give the illegal a DL, and presto, a new voter."

Pretty close, under NVRA - I've not seen anything in it requiring any stringent proof. As an aside - I've registered to vote online when renewing my license online as well as in person - the license was accepted as proof of citizenship for voting.

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Just because the standard of proof is low doesn't mean that people are doing it in large numbers. It's not like it's s source of money (or sexual favors) and it IS a felony if you're caught..

"If you are caught!" They are more than willing to take their chances. Recently, a small town, I believe, in West Virginia. A bit of wording in the laws pertaining to acquiring a driver's license caused a mad rush by illegals in northeastern states to get a driver's license. I really don't believe the illegals want a DL for voting purposes... they want it to show citizenship and all they can get.


Chuck

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[Frenchy68 0]

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The proverbial slippery slope could result in effectively criminalizing mere failure to carry one's ID on one's person, giving police the automatic right to arrest anyone who doesn't have it on them.

Who says the police would even have the RIGHT to ask someone to show proof of residency or citizenship on a routine stop? I do not believe they have that right today. What I am referring to is if one has to show proof of citizenship to register to vote, then have ONE document which states one's citizenship. A passport is pretty much accepted worldwide as being such document. I don't see too many Americans going through immigration at airports complaining about being asked for their passport. I think the SS card and DL have WAY too may usages not linked to their initial purpose.

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[kallend 1,683]

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The proverbial slippery slope could result in effectively criminalizing mere failure to carry one's ID on one's person, giving police the automatic right to arrest anyone who doesn't have it on them.

Who says the police would even have the RIGHT to ask someone to show proof of residency or citizenship on a routine stop? I do not believe they have that right today. What I am referring to is if one has to show proof of citizenship to register to vote, then have ONE document which states one's citizenship. A passport is pretty much accepted worldwide as being such document. I don't see too many Americans going through immigration at airports complaining about being asked for their passport. I think the SS card and DL have WAY too may usages not linked to their initial purpose.

That, in a nutshell, is it.

On the whole I'd prefer drivers to have passed a competency test (even a rudimentary one like we have in the USA) and have documentation (a DL) to prove it - even if they are IAs.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Andy9o8 0]

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Who says the police would even have the RIGHT to ask someone to show proof of residency or citizenship on a routine stop? I do not believe they have that right today.

You're partly right - the police generally don't currently have that specific right, except near national borders, coastal ports or international airports. But I also know there's no specific constitutional prohibition against their doing that, either. And so I understand that if a Federal law creating a national ID is enacted, AND if that law requires people to carry it on their persons outside their residences, the net EFFECT will be to empower the police to stop people and card them. ("Your papers please" indeed.)

Then some people will be detained for not having it on them, and we're off to the races in the Federal courts. And Federal appellate courts are pretty conservative these days, thanks to there being 5 Republicans vs. 2 Democrats in the White House since 1969.

Also: In roughly the 1970's, numerous vagrancy laws requiring people to provide police with "satisfactory proof" of their identities upon demand were struck down as unconstitutionally vague, for they gave no guidance as to what constituted "satisfactory proof", thereby allowing police enforcement to be arbitrary and abusive.

However, in the past 10 years, I've seen more and more court decisions saying that the police have the right to detain someone who flatly refuses to identify himself - meaning that the courts are leaning toward the police on this general philosophy.

The practical effect of this: if a National ID card is mandated, that would remove that inconvenient "vagueness" problem: people must show police their National ID to identify themselves. And some cops will detain people who don't have it on them. And the courts might very well back them up.

Your papers, please.

[marks2065 0]

the problem is worse than most people think - one of the big reasons to get a drivers lic is to get a voters card - one of the news personalities on cnn or fox ( can't remember ) had this subject on one of their programs - the mexican vote is a strong vote now because of the illegal voting - they are using the loop holes in the system to vote in the mexican candidate and help their cause - the poll at the time was about 70% of the mexican voters were voting illegally - the democrats coun't on this percentage of votes to help push them over the edge on close elections that is why they overlook it as much as they do as proved by the article provided by millertime - the illegal mexican vote has gained enough strength to tip an election in the favor of the candidate that is easy on imigration laws or suppliing free food and medical to the illegal population - this is a very serious situation and does have a big impact on elections just because of the large numbers the illegal voters carry - the main reason for alot of illegals get a divers lic is to get a voters card and vote - they seem to understand how a democracy works better than us and use it to help themselves when ever they can - they have gained enough power to almost vote themselves into legal status by electing the popular mexican candidate - if the people of the US don't stop it soon our national language will be spanish not english and our government will be run by the mexican president - as of right now 1 out of 5 kids born in america have mexican heritage in their blood - now i'm not real smart but i think that would make a 20% mexican vote in less than 20 years

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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as of right now 1 out of 5 kids born in america have mexican heritage in their blood - now i'm not real smart but i think that would make a 20% mexican vote in less than 20 years

No, it would make a min 20% AMERICAN of Mexican heritage vote in less than 20 years.

[Andy9o8 0]

I take it you and your family speak Lakota in your home.

By the way, periods and paragraph breaks are your friends.

[marks2065 0]

i would have no problem with that if they became americans first - arrive here legally, learn english, paid taxes, and not abused the support systems of america - these future voters will know spanish as a first laguage, hear stories from their parents about how they hid to not be deportation and how they used welfare and the free medical system or how they got arested deported and just came back over thwe border and how the american system alows freeloaders - and you want these people to vote for your kids future and your retirement ?

[masterrig 1]

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i would have no problem with that if they became americans first - arrive here legally, learn english, paid taxes, and not abused the support systems of america - these future voters will know spanish as a first laguage, hear stories from their parents about how they hid to not be deportation and how they used welfare and the free medical system or how they got arested deported and just came back over thwe border and how the american system alows freeloaders - and you want these people to vote for your kids future and your retirement ?

I think, it's quite obvious. The illegals don't really, give a rats ass about this country of ours. They are just interested in what they can get for themselves. I'd be willing to bet, if, they are voting, it's just like you said... it's for the mexican candidate.


Chuck

[DanG 1]

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I think, it's quite obvious. The illegals don't really, give a rats ass about this country of ours. They are just interested in what they can get for themselves.

Do you know any illegals aliens? Do you know anyone of latino descent? I think many illegals give more than a rat's ass about this country. Piling them all together as freeloaders and selfish bastards is a little ignorant.

I happen to know the son of an illegal alien. He is serving his fourth combat tour in six years right now in Iraq. I'm pretty sure he gives a rat's ass about America.

And now I've broken my promise to never again post in SC. Flame away.

- Dan G

- Dan G

[masterrig 1]

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I think, it's quite obvious. The illegals don't really, give a rats ass about this country of ours. They are just interested in what they can get for themselves.

Do you know any illegals aliens? Do you know anyone of latino descent? I think many illegals give more than a rat's ass about this country. Piling them all together as freeloaders and selfish bastards is a little ignorant.

I happen to know the son of an illegal alien. He is serving his fourth combat tour in six years right now in Iraq. I'm pretty sure he gives a rat's ass about America.

And now I've broken my promise to never again post in SC. Flame away.

- Dan G

Over the years, I've known quite a few. I just don't let one or two, turn my head. Can you say that about all the millions of them here?
edit to add: I'm assuming, the son was born here. That, makes him a U.S. cotizen. Don't count... he's not illegal.

Chuck

[marks2065 0]

the crime rate and cost for medical, schooling, welfare for illegals in this country is staggering and i am tired of paying for deadbeats and criminals in this country and a very large percentage of illegals in this country are deadbeats and criminals

[steveorino 7]

Since that law passed I saw something I have never seen in Okiehoma since I moved here in 1995 ... I saw white guys building a stone fence around a new hospital addition. I thought only Mexicans knew how to be a stone mason?

steveOrino

[masterrig 1]

I agree with you. All this catering to them in this country is mind-blowing. Seems like very few, want to 'see' that the criminal element alone is here and is a problem. Just in the area I live, the house break-ins that can be directly aimed at illegals is costing folks. Not just house burglaries but stolen vehicles. Not to mention the drug running. I guess, it's real easy to watch the t.v. news or get information off the internet but, when you live around the problem, you can't help but 'see' it. It's not just here, it's all over this country.


Chuck

[squarecanopy 0]

Giving a false answer is a felony and is grounds for deportation, even for LEGAL immigrants.

[masterrig 1]

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Giving a false answer is a felony and is grounds for deportation, even for LEGAL immigrants.

Like THAT is any deterrent to their lying. Thier being here is a lie from the start.

[kallend 1,683]

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Giving a false answer is a felony and is grounds for deportation, even for LEGAL immigrants.

Like THAT is any deterrent to their lying. Thier being here is a lie from the start.

You got that right! What really gets me is, our government is so afraid to 'really' do something about the problem. I don't know if, our government is afraid of not being 'politically correct' or afraid of losing cheap labor and Mexican oil or the kick-backs from lobbyists!? Any way you slice it, we need to take control of our borders and seriously 'doing something' about the problem of just anyone entering this country. So far, our government has just put-on a 'lights and mirrors show'. Our politicians, need to grow a pair!!!


Chuck

[mnealtx 0]

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I just want to see PROOF that there's an actual problem here rather than a rallying cry for the rednecks.

Nice condescension there, Professor...been practicing that one?

To answer the question in a couple different ways...

1. Come live in South Texas and see.

2. Get rid of the 'sanctuary laws' and let's find out.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kallend 1,683]

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I just want to see PROOF that there's an actual problem here rather than a rallying cry for the rednecks.

Nice condescension there, Professor...been practicing that one?

To answer the question in a couple different ways...

1. Come live in South Texas and see.

2. Get rid of the 'sanctuary laws' and let's find out.

So you don't have proof either.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mnealtx 0]

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I just want to see PROOF that there's an actual problem here rather than a rallying cry for the rednecks.

Nice condescension there, Professor...been practicing that one?

To answer the question in a couple different ways...

1. Come live in South Texas and see.

2. Get rid of the 'sanctuary laws' and let's find out.

So you don't have proof either.

Proof? No, just as you have no proof it *isn't* a problem.

I only have personal experience and conversations with illegal aliens to go by - you see, I spent years living in South Texas, and it's where I still go home to on vacation.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kallend 1,683]

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I just want to see PROOF that there's an actual problem here rather than a rallying cry for the rednecks.

Nice condescension there, Professor...been practicing that one?

To answer the question in a couple different ways...

1. Come live in South Texas and see.

2. Get rid of the 'sanctuary laws' and let's find out.

So you don't have proof either.

Proof? No, just as you have no proof it *isn't* a problem.

I only have personal experience and conversations with illegal aliens to go by - you see, I spent years living in South Texas, and it's where I still go home to on vacation.

So what fraction of your illegal friends are registered voters who go to the polls?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mnealtx 0]

I knew of at least 3 from personal experience, and they said that most of their friends were the same, for what that's worth.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kallend 1,683]

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I knew of at least 3 from personal experience, and they said that most of their friends were the same, for what that's worth.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.