Madeleine McCann - "damning" evidence against the parents.

[Erroll 49]

From Sky

Quote

The sources say that scientists have found a full DNA match to Madeleine in the boot of a car hired by Kate and Gerry McCann after their daughter went missing.

What's your take?

[ScottishJohn 25]

If the police had damning evidence then they would have arrested them not offered to do a deal if they confessed.

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If you think my attitude stinks you should smell my fingers

[JackC 0]

I understand that the car was hired by the McCann's 25 days after Madeleine went missing. I think to hide a body while the police search everywhere and then to move it a month later under the noses of the entire worlds press who are camped outside your house at your invitation without anyone seeing anything is a pretty neat trick. I'll take cross-contamination for 1000 Erroll.

[Erroll 49]

Quote

I'll take cross-contamination... .

One would think that the Forensic Science Service in Birmingham, one of the best forensics labs in the world, would have considered that.

From another Sky news item:

Quote

"The evidence suggests very strongly that it was not that her DNA had been transferred from clothing or from a cuddly toy.

"The allegation is that the DNA shows a full match of 99%. According to police, it shows the presence of Madeleine's body in the boot of the family's hire car five weeks after she disappeared."

[JackC 0]

Well I'm no forensic expert and I'll bet they have considered cross-contamination but still, shifting month old bodies under the noses of a media scrum? David Copperfield would be proud of that one.

[Weezil 0]

Hmm, each report that comes in about this seems incomplete, contradictory or just plain confusing. I guess it is hardly surprising considering the level of secrecy in this investigation.

This particular report is a good example, as yesterday Sky were reporting a ‘blood sample’ and the next day it is a ‘DNA sample’.
This distinction is important, as hair samples have a greater capacity to contaminate any ‘crime scene’ than blood, as they are constantly been shed becoming airborne and distributing over large areas.
Declaring the presence of blood on the other hand seems more convenient if you are looking to build a case and charge someone, as it is sounds more incriminating, being suggestive of a violent altercation and/or physical trauma. However young kids of this age or forever getting scrapes and bruises, much more so than an adult, so the presence and potential for cross contamination would be much higher than a case involving an adult.
I expect positive DNA identification will not only be found in areas where she is known to have occupied (eg bedroom bathroom etc), but also in places where items of used clothing may have been placed (such as a car boot) before or after she disappeared.

In this respect, excluding cross-contamination would be purely speculative, there is just no way you can prove conclusively the blood/DNA sample came from direct contact of a body. DNA profiling nowadays is much more sensitive than even a few years ago and can be conducted with tiny samples, often involving a single cell or a single gene copy.
This places the burden of proof on the criminal investigators, and a threshold has to be established for what constitutes a ‘positive’ result using a testing technique this sensitive, as her DNA will have contaminated all predesignated crime scenes. What is worrying is if the investigators are under such intense pressure, the threshold for what constitutes a positive result will invariably lower.

For me cross-contamination is the obvious explanation. However the source of the corss-contamination may prove far more interesting to the police, for example if it was an item that was used to clean a crime scene. Obviously, keeping an open mind when investigating a case like this is critical. It seems interesting that they have not found, or maybe are not commenting on any supportive evidence of a body been placed in the boot, such as hair, clothing fibres etc.

As stated before, it seems impossible to move a body, which you would of hidden from the police, with a media scrummage going on outside your front gate.

Not being familiar with all the techniques of forensic science it would be interesting to hear other peoples comments!

Edited to say: I hope that all this speculation will be proven pointless after her safe and speedy return.

Blues

[Brittentay 0]

"Portuguese police today denied a report that they had found a perfect DNA match for Madeleine McCann in a sample of body fluids taken from a car hired by her parents 25 days after her disappearance.
But a source close to the investigation told The Times that forensics experts had found a surprising amount of Madeleine's hair in the hired Renault Scenic, which detectives now suspect was used to transport her corpse.

Detectives had expected to find some of Madeleine's genetic material, skin flakes or hair in the car because it had been used to carry the family's belongings, including her clothes and toys, when the McCanns moved from their holiday apartment to a nearby villa.

But the amount of hair came as a surprise, the source said, although detectives were not confident that they could prove beyond doubt their suspicions that Madeleine's body was ever in the car. "

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2429822.ece

[Erroll 49]

Quote

"Portuguese police today denied a report that they had found a perfect DNA match for Madeleine McCann...

Yip. I also saw a later article where it is stated that if there was blood in the car, it could have come from the twins too - siblings can share a large number of DNA pointers.

This must be really painful for the parents.

[Brittentay 0]

i dont have children, so i literally Cannot imagine.

my heart goes out for them. and my "prayers" that somehow she will be found, unharmed.

[Scoop 0]

I don't know what to think at the moment. I heard they had found blood in the vehicle. People are jumping up saying that the police planted evidence.

If it is indeed blood, I would like to know how you 'plant' the blood of a child WHO IS MISSING in a vehicle. Now thats an even better trick than moving a body under a media scrum.

Of course, if they are now saying its not blood then who knows. I think I'm right in saying there is no DNA in hair, or its difficult to extract DNA from hair. I think you need a root.

I would also have to say it would be pretty hard to cross contminate a vehicle some 25 days later.

[shropshire 0]

It's for a court to decide. Trial by media get's on my tits.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Nightingale 0]

According to cnn, they did not find blood. They did find some of Madeleine's hair. DNA cannot be extracted from a hair strand, only from a root, but it's not uncommon to find roots attached to hair strands, especially if the hair was pulled out (for example, in a struggle or by a hairbrush).

[Weezil 0]

THis is true.
What is incredible to watch is the level of coverage this case has from Sky news. It was the headline story today for news on the hour EVERY time I looked throughout this morning and this evening.


This of all days on the 11th September, when Bin laden has taunted the world with his first speech in a long time. A little reflection on this matter by highlighting this anniversary occasionally through the day wouldnt of gone amiss

I am not saying this story isnt worthy but this level of coverage for the same story has led to feverish hysterical monotony and an obsessive rehashing of the same facts
The other news channels flitted between headline stories as and when facts from other news events came in, indicating at least some balance.

I guess with this intensity of cover, speculation on live TV during a news vacum inevitably leads to trial by television

[shropshire 0]

<>

The McCann's have done this right from the start of this sorry tale. They have kept the story very high profile. They have controlled the press better than many professional attention seekers..... So they are also guilty of Trial by Media.

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(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Weezil 0]

I don't think this was their original motivation. I don't see them cynically manipulating the press like a B list celebrity who craves attnetion.

I guess they were hoping to find their daughter quickly by keeping the trail hot.
The fact it has gone cold and the press have turned on them was in any ways something they hadn't anticipated.

Many of the papers today seem detached from them and focusing on forensic details from disclosed and undisclosed sources. This trial by media has been going on for some time in the portuguese and european press, and it looks like now it's going to get uglier in the british press

[Zep 0]

So it continues, In the Spanish tabloids, the latest theory is that the child died from an overdose of
sleeping pills, was then taken to a neighbors house , left their for an uncertain amount of time, then moved (DNA in the hire car) to a British registered yacht,
taken out an dumped in the Mediterranean sea.

How long is it going to be till the tabloids hit on the alien abduction theory?.

Are they guilty, I have no idea, I like every parent hope she's alive an that they find her alive.

Gone fishing