Organ doner - Presumed consent - WTF!?

[JackC 0]

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so why not give the dead in you a life in someone who can?

Why not indeed. Except this isn't about me giving, it's about them taking.

How would you like to have to opt-out of a government scheme to seize your financial assets in the event of your death?

[lisamariewillbe 1]

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eat endless supplies of Eggo's

Werent EGGOS in the "meet my God" thread?

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read your own posts in this thread, you really don't believe that and neither do quite a few people here

Honestly I dont, but I cant force someone to see their body as nothing once they die, and to try to convince anyone of anything in the public threads is well not likely. To me if someone doesnt want to donate oh well I really dont believe I can convince them, but I also stand by my position that once a persons dead the body is dead, unless they can defend thier dead body possission or however its spelled is 9/10s the law and at least 90% of everything is the govments...

Alas my job now starts and no eggos nor circle debates for me ...

Oh and I was JUST about to bring up the war, but you ruined my segway

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[mnealtx 0]

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Have you noticed that the 'not my body parts' folks tend to be the same ones who have a long history of of strenuous objection to just about any sort of help or compassion to those in need (e.g child health care, disaster victims) and are the same folks who have been ardent neo-cons?

You have all the data you need to define where their narrow, self-serving sense of values lie.

Try again - the more conservative posters are the ones that are against the FORCED contribution of body parts.

Your blanket statement about conservatives is, as usual, about 180 degrees out of true.

Unless, of course, you consider warpedskydiver, myself, juanesky (and probably others) to be liberals.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mnealtx 0]

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so why not give the dead in you a life in someone who can?

Why not indeed. Except this isn't about me giving, it's about them taking.

How would you like to have to opt-out of a government scheme to seize your financial assets in the event of your death?

We have to do that now (death tax, wills, etc.) or the state gets it by default.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mnealtx 0]

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eat endless supplies of Eggo's

Werent EGGOS in the "meet my God" thread?

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read your own posts in this thread, you really don't believe that and neither do quite a few people here

Honestly I dont, but I cant force someone to see their body as nothing once they die, and to try to convince anyone of anything in the public threads is well not likely. To me if someone doesnt want to donate oh well I really dont believe I can convince them, but I also stand by my position that once a persons dead the body is dead, unless they can defend thier dead body possission or however its spelled is 9/10s the law and at least 90% of everything is the govments...

Alas my job now starts and no eggos nor circle debates for me ...

Oh and I was JUST about to bring up the war, but you ruined my segway

He ruined your small gyroscopic scooter?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[freethefly 6]

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And for all of you selfish cremation types, who want your ashes cast upon the waters

I'm considering having the Navy cast my ashes from a ship at sea. I am entitled to such.
Your taxes are going to PAY for it.
I bet that just irks the jerks.
Well, they can all just kiss my ashed ass.
http://www.nlhs.com/burial-at-sea.htm

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[rehmwa 2]

you want to be buried with all that fish pee?

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[freethefly 6]

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you want to be buried with all that fish pee?

Considering, I'll be ashes.... Besides, they didn't seem to mind when I pissed over the side of the ship. If they did, they could have filed a formal complaint with the Secretary of the Navy. I'm positive that they know how to write. They do seem to spend quite abit of time in schools.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[Royd 0]

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And for all of you selfish cremation types, who want your ashes cast upon the waters

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I'm considering having the Navy cast my ashes from a ship at sea. I am entitled to such.
Your taxes are going to PAY for it.
I bet that just irks the jerks.
Well, they can all just kiss my ashed ass.

This is a true story. It happened to a friend of mine.
He lived in Colorado.
His mother died, and was cremated.
The family owned property and a cabin at a place called Pearl lakes in the San Juan Mountains.

He, two of his brothers, all who had pilots liscences, and a nephew, decided to fly over the lakes and cast out the mother's ashes.

As they banked the plane[ some assumption, here] and dumped the ashes out, they blew back into the cockpit, blinding the brother who was flying the plane.

They crashed into the mountains, killing all four on board. They did find the ashes inside of the cockpit.

I heard that the mother had a fear of water. Only kidding.

[jenfly00 0]

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Have you noticed that the 'not my body parts' folks tend to be the same ones who have a long history of of strenuous objection to just about any sort of help or compassion to those in need (e.g child health care, disaster victims) and are the same folks who have been ardent neo-cons?

You have all the data you need to define where their narrow, self-serving sense of values lie.

Try again - the more conservative posters are the ones that are against the FORCED contribution of body parts.

Your blanket statement about conservatives is, as usual, about 180 degrees out of true.

Unless, of course, you consider warpedskydiver, myself, juanesky (and probably others) to be liberals.

Show me one example where anyone has been 'FORCED' to contribute body parts. Qute typically, you have picked a small segment of the conversation, misrepresented it and taken a stand. Your argument might fly with the 'patriots' (i.e. the cheap seats ) but it doesn't get off the ground here.

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"O brave new world that has such people in it".

[mnealtx 0]

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Have you noticed that the 'not my body parts' folks tend to be the same ones who have a long history of of strenuous objection to just about any sort of help or compassion to those in need (e.g child health care, disaster victims) and are the same folks who have been ardent neo-cons?

You have all the data you need to define where their narrow, self-serving sense of values lie.

Try again - the more conservative posters are the ones that are against the FORCED contribution of body parts.

Your blanket statement about conservatives is, as usual, about 180 degrees out of true.

Unless, of course, you consider warpedskydiver, myself, juanesky (and probably others) to be liberals.

Show me one example where anyone has been 'FORCED' to contribute body parts. Qute typically, you have picked a small segment of the conversation, misrepresented it and taken a stand. Your argument might fly with the 'patriots' (i.e. the cheap seats ) but it doesn't get off the ground here.

As you quite typically take a small part of the argument and twist it to try to show how unfeeling and uncaring conservatives are. Speaking of that, did you ever go look at that site showing conservatives giving MUCH more to charity than the liberals?

Yes, I mis-spoke... they are not FORCED to contribute - but the organs are taken (under the OP's post) if permission is not explicitly denied.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[jenfly00 0]

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Have you noticed that the 'not my body parts' folks tend to be the same ones who have a long history of of strenuous objection to just about any sort of help or compassion to those in need (e.g child health care, disaster victims) and are the same folks who have been ardent neo-cons?

You have all the data you need to define where their narrow, self-serving sense of values lie.

Try again - the more conservative posters are the ones that are against the FORCED contribution of body parts.

Your blanket statement about conservatives is, as usual, about 180 degrees out of true.

Unless, of course, you consider warpedskydiver, myself, juanesky (and probably others) to be liberals.

Show me one example where anyone has been 'FORCED' to contribute body parts. Qute typically, you have picked a small segment of the conversation, misrepresented it and taken a stand. Your argument might fly with the 'patriots' (i.e. the cheap seats ) but it doesn't get off the ground here.

As you quite typically take a small part of the argument and twist it to try to show how unfeeling and uncaring conservatives are. Speaking of that, did you ever go look at that site showing conservatives giving MUCH more to charity than the liberals?

Yes, I mis-spoke... they are not FORCED to contribute - but the organs are taken (under the OP's post) if permission is not explicitly denied.

Did you read this part (any part?):

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Sir Liam said that any system introduced in the UK would need "proper safeguards" and would likely take into account the wishes of close family.

Guess what? That's what they do now. Instead of only contacting the NOK with those who have indicated they wish to donate organs, they will do it with everyone ...just like Florida has been doing for many years.

Yes, conservatives give more money (probably right up to the limit of the tax write-off) and it is much appreciated. They have the added benefit of discussing their generosity in giving to the comman man at parties.

What they do not do is sacrafice or give time and effort. Go to any free clinic, public agency or child welfare organization. Go to any large municipal ER on the graveyard shift. You can throw a dead cat all night long ...and you won't hit a neo-con.

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"O brave new world that has such people in it".

[NCclimber 0]

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Yes, conservatives give more money (probably right up to the limit of the tax write-off) and it is much appreciated. They have the added benefit of discussing their generosity in giving to the comman man at parties.

What they do not do is sacrafice or give time and effort.

so jaded...

so myopic.

[kelpdiver 2]

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And for all of you selfish cremation types, who want your ashes cast upon the waters or taken on an ash dive, stop polluting the environment. I don't want to have to drink or snort your dirty ass.

As opposed to the far more substantial pollution of burying a chemically treated body in a casket of mostly synthetic products?

[Royd 0]

And for all of you selfish cremation types, who want your ashes cast upon the waters or taken on an ash dive, stop polluting the environment. I don't want to have to drink or snort your dirty ass.

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As opposed to the far more substantial pollution of burying a chemically treated body in a casket of mostly synthetic products?

Here in Fl. we're put into a sealed concrete vault.

Besides, on the day of the resurrection, I don't want The Lord to have to be chasing all over Hell's half acre looking for my parts and pieces.

[billvon 2,464]

> Besides, on the day of the resurrection, I don't want The Lord to have
>to be chasing all over Hell's half acre looking for my parts and pieces.

Never thought about that! Best get a big jar to carry around all those teeth/biopsied tissues/surgical waste to ensure no divine time is wasted hunting down scraps like that. And of course if you ever need a donated organ, best label it clearly so it can be returned to its rightful owner when you-know-what happens (and he needs it again.)

[georgerussia 0]

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Oh, okay. How about those that refuse to purchase health insurance will not be able receive financial support for healthcare?

I'd second that as well if health insurance was free, and you were automatically enrolled in it unless you personally opt out. Note that becoming a donor is free, and does not cost you $xxx/month.

There are only moral arguments against being an organ donor. Well, if the person cannot morally accept their organs going to someone else after they die because it is immoral, they most likely cannot morally accept organs from another dead person, leaving this person without organs - which is immoral.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[JackC 0]

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Besides, on the day of the resurrection, I don't want The Lord to have to be chasing all over Hell's half acre looking for my parts and pieces.

[Royd 0]

> Besides, on the day of the resurrection, I don't want The Lord to have
>to be chasing all over Hell's half acre looking for my parts and pieces.

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Never thought about that! Best get a big jar to carry around all those teeth/biopsied tissues/surgical waste to ensure no divine time is wasted hunting down scraps like that. And of course if you ever need a donated organ, best label it clearly so it can be returned to its rightful owner when you-know-what happens (and he needs it again

I wonder if we could have the part tattooed with name, address, and the message'Return to sender.'?

[Richards 0]

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Honestly, why would you NOT want to give organs/tissue/whatever? It's not like you're going to use them, .

I agree that there is really no good reason not to, but the choice should still be the individuals, and the default answer should be no.

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[georgerussia 0]

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I agree that there is really no good reason not to, but the choice should still be the individuals, and the default answer should be no.

So why the default answer should be "no"? It is not like you're taking away something useful.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[jenfly00 0]

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Honestly, why would you NOT want to give organs/tissue/whatever? It's not like you're going to use them, .

I agree that there is really no good reason not to, but the choice should still be the individuals, and the default answer should be no.

What would your opinion be if the default answer was 'we will ask the next of kin on all deaths', not just the ones who have expressed a desire to donate organs?

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"O brave new world that has such people in it".

[rehmwa 2]

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if the default answer was 'we will ask the next of kin on all deaths', not just the ones who have expressed a desire to donate organs

I think that's a great answer.

(and likely closer to reality)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[lisamariewillbe 1]

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What would your opinion be if the default answer was 'we will ask the next of kin on all deaths', not just the ones who have expressed a desire to donate organs?

Isnt that what it is though? At least right now, I was under the impression that if there are harvestable organs it is asked to the next of kin regardless if the dead person left permission.

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[rehmwa 2]

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What would your opinion be if the default answer was 'we will ask the next of kin on all deaths', not just the ones who have expressed a desire to donate organs?

Isnt that what it is though? At least right now, I was under the impression that if there are harvestable organs it is asked to the next of kin regardless if the dead person left permission.

Thus there is no need to "presume" consent as there is already a very good means to deal with it. Those that want to bypass the process of asking next of kin, should be able to explicitly allow it and the doctors 'should' be able to act with that authorization (but, in the end, the next of kin get asked anyway).

So a policy of "presumed consent" is really just a public relations ploy and a waste of time.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants