:-) AMNESTY BILL Defeated :-) 53-46

[rushmc 18]

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I can't morally justify telling mostly brown people they can't stay when there were no legal impediments to my white ancestors showing up from Denmark, England, Germany, and Ireland.

There are already laws and a system for them to enter this country legally. We need to enforce it, and they need to use. Problem solved.

America became the greatest nation on the planet when our immigration laws were that any white person was welcome without quotas or limits on employment. That should be extended to the Chinese and Mexicans who were previously excluded since there aren't real differences between them and us.

Recently we've decided that we're here and want the land all to ourselves and closed down immigration. I can't defend that morally or see it changing the inevitable homoginization of wages, costs of living, and laws arround the globe.

Amnesty for those who were motivated enough to get here is a more politically viable step back towards both what made our nation great and impending globalization.

Bullshit

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[lawrocket 3]

Well, that's about 80 hours of work down the drain. Personally, I don't support the idea of mass amnesty. But there are two choices if the thing was passed: 1) bitch about it; or 2) make a buck off of it. So wifey and I started planning on doing immigration, knowing that if this bill passed that our office would handle almost nothing else.

And we sure wouldn't tell my mom what we were doing!!!

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[marks2065 0]

the bottom line is that if you want to live here you file the propper paperwork, pay taxes, learn english and fly the american flag - anything less get the fuck out - every other group that came to america became americans the mexicans should do the same - if their country is so great go back - if america is better then become americans don't move mexico here and fuck up this great country

[warpedskydiver 0]

Flag day was pretty disheartening around here, two out of every ten flags I saw were the American Flag.

The rest I saw flying were Mexican Flags on businesses and homes, a few few both with the Mexican flag being flown ABOVE the American Flag.

This is not how my friends acted when their families came here in the 1960's, they were so damned proud of being allowed to come here and become Americans(or their Parents) that many of the older boys enlisted to go fight in Viet Nam.

Back then there were so many service stars in the windows in my neighborhood, some of the kids thought everyone had matching drapes.

Sharp contrast huh?

[sundevil777 94]

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That sounds like you are in favor of having a permanent underclass of immigrants that can be exploited. All of this in the supposed interest of preventing an increase in inflation. Is that the real message that liberals/progressives want to advocate?

The best environment to create an "underclass" is to keep people in a
legal gray zone - no rights, constant fear, etc. After the do-nothing
populists had their day this is what it will continue to be. Congrats!

Cheers, T

I think they should have no rights and be in constant fear, because they are illegal and should go back.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[rushmc 18]

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the bottom line is that if you want to live here you file the propper paperwork, pay taxes, learn english and fly the american flag - anything less get the fuck out - every other group that came to america became americans the mexicans should do the same - if their country is so great go back - if america is better then become americans don't move mexico here and fuck up this great country

And if anybody wonders why anyone would have this opinion just look at what is happening in France!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[sundevil777 94]

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Thats what the bill does. Fix the borders and then start addressing the other issues. Have you read any of it? It's not a perfect bill, nor do I think one could be made, but it's a start. What do you find wrong with it?

The proposed bill allowed temporary, renewable visas that can be had extremely easily. The supporters try to say it isn't amnesty because of the requirements for citizenship, but the temp visas can be renewed indefinitely, so it is amnesty.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[rushmc 18]

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Flag day was pretty disheartening around here, two out of every ten flags I saw were the American Flag.

The rest I saw flying were Mexican Flags on businesses and homes, a few few both with the Mexican flag being flown ABOVE the American Flag.

This is not how my friends acted when their families came here in the 1960's, they were so damned proud of being allowed to come here and become Americans(or their Parents) that many of the older boys enlisted to go fight in Viet Nam.

Back then there were so many service stars in the windows in my neighborhood, some of the kids thought everyone had matching drapes.

Sharp contrast huh?

Again, right on the money. Just look at how those act that have become or are becoming US citizens today! They are proud and happy. There is a reason the process was put in place for those that want to come hear legally. they rest, well are just crimials

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

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That sounds like you are in favor of having a permanent underclass of immigrants that can be exploited. All of this in the supposed interest of preventing an increase in inflation. Is that the real message that liberals/progressives want to advocate?

The best environment to create an "underclass" is to keep people in a
legal gray zone - no rights, constant fear, etc. After the do-nothing
populists had their day this is what it will continue to be. Congrats!

Cheers, T

I think they should have no rights and be in constant fear, because they are illegal and should go back.

and they sure as hell should not get SS medicare and access to colleges and public schools!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[marks2065 0]

my daughter's couldn't get free college and my family has lived here for over 100 years and paid taxes - college is going to cost me for 2 daughters over $80,000 - doesn't seem fair - my fiance's kids have spanish as a requirement for grade school - what about making it mandatory for the to learn english ?

[marks2065 0]

i think half the troops should come back home and guard the borders - ship all illegals back and make the come in legally - confiscate their stuff and sell it to pay for a good cause like schools or medical for the needy - also fine employers double their salery for employing illegals

[kallend 1,662]

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I can't morally justify telling mostly brown people they can't stay when there were no legal impediments to my white ancestors showing up from Denmark, England, Germany, and Ireland.

There are already laws and a system for them to enter this country legally. We need to enforce it, and they need to use. Problem solved.

America became the greatest nation on the planet when our immigration laws were that any white person was welcome without quotas or limits on employment. That should be extended to the Chinese and Mexicans who were previously excluded since there aren't real differences between them and us.

Recently we've decided that we're here and want the land all to ourselves and closed down immigration. I can't defend that morally or see it changing the inevitable homoginization of wages, costs of living, and laws arround the globe.

Amnesty for those who were motivated enough to get here is a more politically viable step back towards both what made our nation great and impending globalization.

While there is no doubt that the current immigration laws are totally screwed up, there's still no reason to reward those who broke them, while those who couldn't get a visa and didn't come illegally are still kept out.

I might add that not all illegals are Mexican - there are many Irish, English and Aussie illegals here too.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[KidWicked 0]

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the bottom line is that if you want to live here you file the propper paperwork, pay taxes, learn english and fly the american flag - anything less get the fuck out -

You're saying that flying the American flag should be compulsory? That's flat out ridiculous.

Coreece: "You sound like some skinheads I know, but your prejudice is with Christians, not niggers..."

[NCclimber 0]

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the bottom line is that if you want to live here you file the propper paperwork, pay taxes, learn english and fly the american flag - anything less get the fuck out -

You're saying that flying the American flag should be compulsory? That's flat out ridiculous.

No more ridiculous than giving all illegals citizenship.

[marks2065 0]

n o but not showing the respect for the country you live in by flying the american flag highest or flying the mexican flag only is - you don't see the german english, french or any other groups flying their flag first - those people are proud of this country and love this country - they became americans and the mexican population should also - being proud of your heritage is good and mixing all of the different nationalities make us all special but being an american supporting america means that you put this country first and fly our flag with respect - these illegals need to go back and do it the right way - and for the US to accept law brakers is wrong

[idrankwhat 0]

1) I'm surprised that trade agreements haven't been included in this debate, either here or at the national level.
2) I agree that laws need to be enforced. Each company who shut down because of the scheduled immigration demonstrations should have been thoroughly investigated.
3) You can't deport 12 million people. It's logistically impossible so that talking point needs to be canned.
4) This same "problem" has been dealt with with the Irish and the Italians and we recovered from that "crisis".
5) Spending money to build a wall or a fence is a bad idea and a big waste of money. If you're willing to spend taxpayer dollars then the problem should be solved by changing trade agreements and supporting economic and infrastructure developments south of the border. A fence doesn't look good, it won't work, and if economic opportunities improve in their home countries then fewer people will want to emigrate.
6) If I had to fly a flag in front of my house I'd have to fly it upside down and most people wouldn't understand.

[mnealtx 0]

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Thats what the bill does. Fix the borders and then start addressing the other issues. Have you read any of it? It's not a perfect bill, nor do I think one could be made, but it's a start. What do you find wrong with it?

Exactly what I said - the border security and enforcement issues need to be fixed first... THEN, after that is done, revisit the possible issue of amnesty (which is bullshit, IMO).

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[FreeflyChile 0]

there'd be an effort, but i dont know the effectiveness - but that's why i was asking for something plausible - that might have an actual outcome grounded in current capability and cost.

exactly how is this to be done if this is even possible (which i dont think it is)?

[sundevil777 94]

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I agree that laws need to be enforced

Then illegal immigrants wouldn't be able to work, and they would have to leave, isn't that right?

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[KidWicked 0]

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n o but not showing the respect for the country you live in by flying the american flag highest or flying the mexican flag only is - you don't see the german english, french or any other groups flying their flag first - those people are proud of this country and love this country -

I see lots of cars with front number plates that are the flag of a foreign country - do you want to ban those as well?

Coreece: "You sound like some skinheads I know, but your prejudice is with Christians, not niggers..."

[JohnRich 4]

Most of us see those 12 million illegal aliens, and we think of the loss of jobs, the lowered wages, the crime, the costs of hospitals and schools.

But the democratic leadership sees those 12 million illegal aliens, and they think of them as 12 million more democratic votes.

It doesn't matter what the illegal aliens do to the country, as long as it helps ensure the democrats remain in power.

[kallend 1,662]

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1)
3) You can't deport 12 million people. It's logistically impossible so that talking point needs to be canned.
.

The folks in power have no personal stake in fixing this problem, maybe the opposite.

If it were millions of lawyers and medical doctors crossing the borders, the problem would have been fixed decades ago.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Casurf1978 0]

The Economist did a report on depressed wages, loss of jobs, and it found that globalization has a more profound impact than illegal immigration. Also the jobs you're talking about are migrant farming jobs. Would you be willing to work out in 100+ degree heat picking produce for a few bucks an hour. Last I saw illegals didn't threaten my job or the jobs of my friends. Actually one of my friends just got laid off. Not because of an illegal, but because the company could outsource his position to India. Seems that programmers there are willing to work for half of what he was paid here.

[warpedskydiver 0]

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1) I'm surprised that trade agreements haven't been included in this debate, either here or at the national level.
2) I agree that laws need to be enforced. Each company who shut down because of the scheduled immigration demonstrations should have been thoroughly investigated.
3) You can't deport 12 million people. It's logistically impossible so that talking point needs to be canned.
4) This same "problem" has been dealt with with the Irish and the Italians and we recovered from that "crisis".
5) Spending money to build a wall or a fence is a bad idea and a big waste of money. If you're willing to spend taxpayer dollars then the problem should be solved by changing trade agreements and supporting economic and infrastructure developments south of the border. A fence doesn't look good, it won't work, and if economic opportunities improve in their home countries then fewer people will want to emigrate.
6) If I had to fly a flag in front of my house I'd have to fly it upside down and most people wouldn't understand.

That is a shitty idea

[warpedskydiver 0]

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The Economist did a report on depressed wages, loss of jobs, and it found that globalization has a more profound impact than illegal immigration. Also the jobs you're talking about are migrant farming jobs. Would you be willing to work out in 100+ degree heat picking produce for a few bucks an hour. Last I saw illegals didn't threaten my job or the jobs of my friends. Actually one of my friends just got laid off. Not because of an illegal, but because the company could outsource his position to India. Seems that programmers there are willing to work for half of what he was paid here.

There are now robots that achive this with far better results, however the United Farm Workers are lobbying and spending alot of cash to defeat this.