Muenkel 0
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If a Republican drops a bomb on a pregnant woman, does it count as an abortion?
Speed Racer
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tbrown 26
He hasn't taken office yet. It's very easy to be president when you're not the president. What's your plan if Obama does not meet your expectations?
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Of course he's not going to meet my expectations. No elected official ever does. I will disagree with him and even be disappointed with some of the things he does. And he will make at least several missteps getting started. But for starters, he can cobble together an intelligible sentence in the english language, and considering the moron we've put up with for the last eight years, I'd say that's an encouraging start.
___________________________________________________Oh wait...he's pro-abortion. He's already met your expectations. My bad.
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Of course he's not going to meet my expectations. No elected official ever does. I will disagree with him and even be disappointed with some of the things he does. And he will make at least several missteps getting started. But for starters, he can cobble together an intelligible sentence in the english language, and considering the moron we've put up with for the last eight years, I'd say that's an encouraging start.
___________________________________________________Oh wait...he's pro-abortion. He's already met your expectations. My bad.
Um, yeah, it is your bad, considering I haven't mentioned abortion in my post. I'll thank you to not put your words in my mouth.
Anyway, just 38 days to the most deserved layoff in history.
Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !
Muenkel 0
QuoteIf a Republican drops a bomb on a pregnant woman, does it count as an abortion?
When it comes to murder, I do not differentiate between political parties.
I honestly do not know where you are going with your statement.
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Chris
Muenkel 0
I for one wish the best for Obama despite disagreeing with him on several social issues.
I personally disagree with you that GWB is the moron that you claim him to be. I have not always agreed with his decisions but that does not make him a moron. It's easy to be an armchair quarterback.
I agree that you never mentioned abortion, so I apologize.
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Chris
I personally disagree with you that GWB is the moron that you claim him to be. I have not always agreed with his decisions but that does not make him a moron. It's easy to be an armchair quarterback.
I agree that you never mentioned abortion, so I apologize.
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Chris
sfc 0
QuoteQuoteIf a Republican drops a bomb on a pregnant woman, does it count as an abortion?
When it comes to murder, I do not differentiate between political parties.
I honestly do not know where you are going with your statement.
I didn't realize that Obama performed abortions. Did I miss something, I though he was a law professor before he was a politician. Or did I forget that single issue abortion voters call everyone who doesn't support them murderers.
Can wait until bush goes, the fact we will have a president with a fully functioning brain in 38 days is fantastic. I wont have to cringe when the president speaks in 38 days, I wont feel embarrassed that we have a buffoon in the office of President in 38 days. Obama has shown more promise and said more sensible stuff about the future of this country and how to run it that bush has said in 8 years.
Obama will mess up sometimes, no-one is perfect, but he wont mess up all the time like the current idiot does and then look like a chimp in headlights when he tries to spin it as a good thing. What has bush got to show for the last 8 years, absolutely nothing other than the biggest recession for decades, unemployment rising faster than any time since his dad left office, national debt record, govt spending out of control and thousands of dead Honorable Servicemen and Women fighting a war that he started on false presences, but you are more worried that Obama supports a woman right to decide about abortion.
You do know he's not actually going to perform the them himself don't you?
Oh bush did managed to get a ban on partial birth abortion, I bet that gave all the anti-abortion people a big woody and made him their hero.
In years to come we will have a new phrase in our language, the "bush" touch, kind of like the midas touch but instead of gold it will be shit, really bad shit, the kind you get when you've eaten too much hot curry and drunk loads of beer.
QuoteQuoteIf a Republican drops a bomb on a pregnant woman, does it count as an abortion?
When it comes to murder, I do not differentiate between political parties.
I honestly do not know where you are going with your statement.
OK then I will explain. The Catholic Church's Pro-Life stance does not begin and end with abortion. It includes opposition to capital punishment, and also includes the Just War doctrine. Which means that specific criteria must be met before we resort to war.
Guess what? The Neo-Con/Bush doctrine doesn't cut it. In other words, you can't really be pro-life & still be a war monger.
Speed Racer
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micro 0
QuoteQuoteQuoteIf a Republican drops a bomb on a pregnant woman, does it count as an abortion?
When it comes to murder, I do not differentiate between political parties.
I honestly do not know where you are going with your statement.
I didn't realize that Obama performed abortions. Did I miss something, I though he was a law professor before he was a politician. Or did I forget that single issue abortion voters call everyone who doesn't support them murderers.
Can wait until bush goes, the fact we will have a president with a fully functioning brain in 38 days is fantastic. I wont have to cringe when the president speaks in 38 days, I wont feel embarrassed that we have a buffoon in the office of President in 38 days. Obama has shown more promise and said more sensible stuff about the future of this country and how to run it that bush has said in 8 years.
Obama will mess up sometimes, no-one is perfect, but he wont mess up all the time like the current idiot does and then look like a chimp in headlights when he tries to spin it as a good thing. What has bush got to show for the last 8 years, absolutely nothing other than the biggest recession for decades, unemployment rising faster than any time since his dad left office, national debt record, govt spending out of control and thousands of dead Honorable Servicemen and Women fighting a war that he started on false presences, but you are more worried that Obama supports a woman right to decide about abortion.
You do know he's not actually going to perform the them himself don't you?
Oh bush did managed to get a ban on partial birth abortion, I bet that gave all the anti-abortion people a big woody and made him their hero.
In years to come we will have a new phrase in our language, the "bush" touch, kind of like the midas touch but instead of gold it will be shit, really bad shit, the kind you get when you've eaten too much hot curry and drunk loads of beer.
Yes you clearly HAVE missed something and it it precisely this: the rules of logic and argumentation. Yours are less than inspiring. One needn't actually perform an abortion to have any culpability, any responsibility for helping incur one. Our legal system is replete with examples of assigning responsibility to people who have committed this or that act even if they weren't the one doing the actual deed in question. By signing FOCA once in office, Obama will be responsible for an increase in abortions in this country. You may not believe this to be true but just sit on this until it happens, then come back and re-read this. I can wait. As tempting as it will be, I'll even forgoe the "I told you so's." So much for the democratic mantra that abortion should be legal yet rare.
As for Bush, I have never been a stalwart supporter of the man. It pains me to hear him speak. However, neither do I vilify the man such as you do and many others here and elsewhere. He isn't Hitler or the Antichrist, anymore than Obama will be to the right wing.
Bush has done some good. You may not agree that his SCOTUS appointees were good, but b/c of current make up of SCOTUS, we have the Heller Decision, which was an incredible win for the people with regard to the 2nd amendment.
I miss Lee.
And JP.
And Chris. And...
micro 0
QuoteQuoteQuoteIf a Republican drops a bomb on a pregnant woman, does it count as an abortion?
When it comes to murder, I do not differentiate between political parties.
I honestly do not know where you are going with your statement.
OK then I will explain. The Catholic Church's Pro-Life stance does not begin and end with abortion. It includes opposition to capital punishment, and also includes the Just War doctrine. Which means that specific criteria must be met before we resort to war.
Guess what? The Neo-Con/Bush doctrine doesn't cut it. In other words, you can't really be pro-life & still be a war monger.
Amen brother.
I miss Lee.
And JP.
And Chris. And...
sfc 0
QuoteQuote
I didn't realize that Obama performed abortions. Did I miss something, I though he was a law professor before he was a politician. Or did I forget that single issue abortion voters call everyone who doesn't support them murderers.
Yes you clearly HAVE missed something and it it precisely this: the rules of logic and argumentation. Yours are less than inspiring. One needn't actually perform an abortion to have any culpability, any responsibility for helping incur one. Our legal system is replete with examples of assigning responsibility to people who have committed this or that act even if they weren't the one doing the actual deed in question. By signing FOCA once in office, Obama will be responsible for an increase in abortions in this country. You may not believe this to be true but just sit on this until it happens, then come back and re-read this. I can wait. As tempting as it will be, I'll even forgoe the "I told you so's." So much for the democratic mantra that abortion should be legal yet rare.
Bush has done some good. You may not agree that his SCOTUS appointees were good, but b/c of current make up of SCOTUS, we have the Heller Decision, which was an incredible win for the people with regard to the 2nd amendment.
So you are saying that if Obama signs FOCA and removes federal restrictions on abortion that he is then culpable for murder? I don't think it is my logic that is uninspiring.
Roe vs. Wade established a woman's right to choice not Obama, he was very young at the time and not someone I recall being involved in the case.
Women have the right to choose just like you have the right to bear arms, the fact that you don't agree with it doesn't mean that others who do are murders, any more than anti-2nd supporters can claim that a single extra gun death makes 2nd supporters murderers.
As to bush being any way responsible for Heller, I think that is a tenuous claim at best, he did voice his support, as did Obama, but I do not think the 2nd played into his selection of SCOTUS replacements.
I do agree with you though about Heller, it was the right decision.
Muenkel 0
I cannot give a better reply than micro has to either of your posts.
Thanks micro for putting my beliefs into such eloquent words.
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Chris
Muenkel 0
QuoteSo you are saying that if Obama signs FOCA and removes federal restrictions on abortion that he is then culpable for murder? I don't think it is my logic that is uninspiring.
Roe vs. Wade established a woman's right to choice not Obama, he was very young at the time and not someone I recall being involved in the case.
Stealing has been a crime long before anyone in this country has been alive...yet it is still wrong. It is also wrong if you are in any way complicit in the act.
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Chris
sfc 0
QuoteI cannot give a better reply than micro has to either of your posts.
I would think that with your literacy skills you could do better, but maybe I'm wrong.
Quote
Thanks micro for putting my beliefs into such eloquent words.
Fortunately the beliefs of the individual (e.g. your religious ones) do not trump the rights of the people. Doesn't seem to matter how often it gets challenged, SCOTUS usually seems to do the right thing (eventually), e.g. the 2nd, slavery, mixed race marriage to name a few.
Muenkel 0
QuoteI cannot give a better reply than micro has to either of your posts.
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I would think that with your literacy skills you could do better, but maybe I'm wrong.
I doubt this very much but thanks for the compliment.
QuoteFortunately the beliefs of the individual (e.g. your religious ones) do not trump the rights of the people. Doesn't seem to matter how often it gets challenged, SCOTUS usually seems to do the right thing (eventually), e.g. the 2nd, slavery, mixed race marriage to name a few.
The Supreme Court has made many good rulings throughout their history but the justices, like the rest of us are not perfect and have made very bad rulings.
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Chris
sfc 0
QuoteQuoteSo you are saying that if Obama signs FOCA and removes federal restrictions on abortion that he is then culpable for murder? I don't think it is my logic that is uninspiring.
Roe vs. Wade established a woman's right to choice not Obama, he was very young at the time and not someone I recall being involved in the case.
Stealing has been a crime long before anyone in this country has been alive...yet it is still wrong. It is also wrong if you are in any way complicit in the act.
That is a ridiculous analogy. To take your absurdity to its conclusion I would say that if Obama passed a law making theft legal then stealing would no longer be a crime so how could be be complicit?
That is what will happen when FOCA is signed w.r.t. partial birth abortion, it wont be a crime because it wont be illegal, if there is no crime then you can't be complicit in it. Just because you think it is wrong does not make it a crime, it is just you opinion not the law.
I hate to think what would happen if we did not have SCOTUS to put the brakes on religious law, the Terry Schiavo law was a great example of where SCOTUS prevented raw religion interfering in the lives of law abiding Americans.
Muenkel 0
Notice I used the word 'wrong' in regard to abortion and the word 'crime' in regard to stealing.
In regard to abortion, I have always believed it to be wrong; yet it is not a crime as per the SCOTUS.
In regard to stealing, it is both wrong and a crime.
Do not underestimate the number of Americans who believe abortion is wrong and should be criminal and do not presume it will always be legal despite whether you agree with that.
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Chris
In regard to abortion, I have always believed it to be wrong; yet it is not a crime as per the SCOTUS.
In regard to stealing, it is both wrong and a crime.
Do not underestimate the number of Americans who believe abortion is wrong and should be criminal and do not presume it will always be legal despite whether you agree with that.
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Chris
sfc 0
QuoteNotice I used the word 'wrong' in regard to abortion and the word 'crime' in regard to stealing.
In regard to abortion, I have always believed it to be wrong; yet it is not a crime as per the SCOTUS.
In regard to stealing, it is both wrong and a crime.
Do not underestimate the number of Americans who believe abortion is wrong and should be criminal and do not presume it will always be legal despite whether you agree with that.
If it were the law then so be it. However I think it unlikely, the majority agrees with Roe vs Wade, and as far as abortion goes there would have to be a massive opinion swing to get a 2/3 constitutional change required to make it illegal country wide.
I think it is more likely that gay marriage will become legal than abortion become illegal.
I am a supporter of gay marriage as well, makes me a really evil person, no pearly gates, its hell for me.
this may seem contradictory to my previous post, but then so be it.
abortion is a very sensitive issue and we must not pretend that it is not.
In my opinion, roe vs. wade should be overturned. The Almighty Government is not good at dealing with sensitive issues such as abortion, and should be left out of it. Stepping in neither on one side or the other.
Same with same sex marriage. Get the government out. When you become 18, and are of the age to sign legal documents, you should elect yourself a Legal Partner. be that a spouse, parent or sibling. That would take care of the government's concerns.
Beyond that, fuck the government. Sever the government's ties with matters of the spirit. Then there shall be no argument. It will become a moot point as far as the government is concerned.
abortion is a very sensitive issue and we must not pretend that it is not.
In my opinion, roe vs. wade should be overturned. The Almighty Government is not good at dealing with sensitive issues such as abortion, and should be left out of it. Stepping in neither on one side or the other.
Same with same sex marriage. Get the government out. When you become 18, and are of the age to sign legal documents, you should elect yourself a Legal Partner. be that a spouse, parent or sibling. That would take care of the government's concerns.
Beyond that, fuck the government. Sever the government's ties with matters of the spirit. Then there shall be no argument. It will become a moot point as far as the government is concerned.
Speed Racer
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kallend 1,644
QuoteLet me get this straight. Some of you have been really pissed with the righties who are pouncing on Obama before he has taken office. The lefties already have Obama cannonized.
He hasn't taken office yet. It's very easy to be president when you're not the president. What's your plan if Obama does not meet your expectations?
Oh wait...he's pro-abortion. He's already met your expectations. My bad.
Sore loser #8
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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
sfc 0
Quotethis may seem contradictory to my previous post, but then so be it.
abortion is a very sensitive issue and we must not pretend that it is not.
In my opinion, roe vs. wade should be overturned. The Almighty Government is not good at dealing with sensitive issues such as abortion, and should be left out of it. Stepping in neither on one side or the other.
Thats exactly what roe vs wade does, it keeps government out of the peoples lives, it says that government cannot tell women what they can and can't do with their pregnancy (within limits). If it were overturned there would be several states removing the choice from pregnant women.
Amazon 7
QuoteThats exactly what roe vs wade does, it keeps government out of the peoples lives, it says that government cannot tell women what they can and can't do with their pregnancy (within limits). If it were overturned there would be several states removing the choice from pregnant women.
In a very large percentage of the country... that option has been effectively been removed as a choice for women. It is unavailable
http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/sfaa/idaho.html
as an example..
• In 2005, 87% of U.S. counties had no abortion provider. 1/3 of American women lived in these counties, which meant they would have to travel outside their county to obtain an abortion. Of women obtaining abortions in 2005, nonhospital providers estimate that 25% traveled at least 50 miles, and 8% traveled more than 100 miles.
He hasn't taken office yet. It's very easy to be president when you're not the president. What's your plan if Obama does not meet your expectations?
Oh wait...he's pro-abortion. He's already met your expectations. My bad.
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Chris
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