The Party of Morality loses another one..

[sundevil777 94]

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Of much more importance is whether you think it is really a victimless crime, even where legal,

Um, if it's legal, it's not a crime at all. Duh

Ok, reword that to victimless crime where illegal, victimless act/something-or-other where legal.

Talk about splitting hairs.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[narcimund 0]

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Oooo this is fun.

I get to point out the distinction between low standards and hypocrisy. Actually it is not so much fun, it should be obvious.

You have fun from making a mistake, being corrected, then taking credit?

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[kelpdiver 2]

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impeachment prodeedings were initiated against bill for lying about a blowjob.

you forgot to type part of the sentence.

Impeachment proceedings were initiated against bill for lying about a blowjob in a trial alledging sexual assault.

Then the thread got derailed by lame intercourse on analogies and hypocrisy.

I suspect that a mid grade official in the State Department during the 90s would not have resigned after such an incident. The party would reason that this was a victimless crime (high end escorts are very unlikely to be sex slaves from China) and only his wife should care.

How many of you knew his name before this thread yesterday? He's not a leader in the GOP, or remotely close. Seems petty to spend any effort on it while Shrub still promises to veto the funding bill.

[jakee 1,262]

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Talk about splitting hairs. [Laugh]

I had nothing useful to say, but I didn't want to be left out

On a slightly more serious note, I'd be interested in seeing how many people who view prostitution, taken in isolation, as damaging have the same view of the porn industry.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Lindsey 0]

In effect you're saying, "We don't boot out a member for soliciting prostitution because we haven't formally opposed it."

If that is the territory the dems want to claim as their own...

Maybe they haven't formally opposed it because

1) it's not that big of a deal, and

2) they're not *pretending* to be morally outraged to a) gain power or to b) build a cover for their own sexual inadequacies.

Really, there's no need to kick anyone out because of who he chooses to have sex with. But those who claim moral superiority by condemning others' sexual behavior would certainly have to appear outraged in order to continue to seem virtuous.

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[sundevil777 94]

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Oooo this is fun.

I get to point out the distinction between low standards and hypocrisy. Actually it is not so much fun, it should be obvious.

You have fun from making a mistake, being corrected, then taking credit?

That is a funny way to put that exchange. I will take credit for reminding you that I didn't call the dems hypocrits, I said they have low standards - big difference.

I think it does indeed come down to whether you think prostitution should be illegal.

If a political party is not going to oust members for soliciting prostitution, then I say that it might as well at least take a position in support of its legalization, even if it is not going be a priority for the legislative agenda. However, the dem party would never say that they would support legalization, just the opposite, at least at the national, party leadership level. I would expect that of libertarians, but not the dems.

Democrats, the party of lower expectations.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[kallend 1,653]

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They have not come out against it as part of their platform, therefore are not hypocrites if they fail to condemn those who use prostitutes. If they had, then your statement would make sense.

That's some funny reasoning.

Let me try an analogy.

Crappy analogy!

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 2,442]

>In effect you're saying, "We don't boot out a member for soliciting
>prostitution because we haven't formally opposed it."

I would probably boot out a member of my party for committing a crime, like say soliciting a prostitute in NYC. But I probably wouldn't if they got a legal prostitute in Nevada, because I really just don't care.

That is, if I had my own party. But since I don't, I don't have to worry about it.

The democratic party? I don't really care much what they do. If there was a democratic senator who once used a hooker at the Mustang Ranch, I wouldn't really care - unless he was fervently anti-hooker. If there was one who committed a crime, I would probably care more.

[kelpdiver 2]

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The democratic party? I don't really care much what they do. If there was a democratic senator who once used a hooker at the Mustang Ranch, I wouldn't really care - unless he was fervently anti-hooker. If there was one who committed a crime, I would probably care more.

since someone injected him into the conversation, did it bother you when Clinton committed his crime?

[kallend 1,653]

Deputy Attorney General Paul McNulty resigned yesterday.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Amazon 7]

The Caucus of Corruption marches on.... but some at least are marching out the door.

[Nightingale 0]

Well, at least Clinton didn't have to pay for his blow jobs.

[Amazon 7]

I think basically its a case that the Right Wing is jealous.... that is why they obsess on the whole blow job thing..... must be a bitch to never get them from all their Phyllis Schlafley rePUBICan women

[akarunway 1]

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Deputy Attorney General Paul McNulty resigned yesterday.

And Lanny Davis went w/ him

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[TypicalFish 0]

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I think basically its a case that the Right Wing is jealous.... that is why they obsess on the whole blow job thing..... must be a bitch to never get them from all their Phyllis Schlafley rePUBICan women

I gotta tell you, I live in DC, am a moderate liberal Democrat, and the Republican girls (in general, of course) are MUCH freakier than the Democrats.

Must be because they are wound so tight during the day.

Like any other statistic, the results are only based on my sample size, of course.

"I gargle no man's balls..." ussfpa on SOCNET

[rehmwa 2]

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Must be because they are wound so tight during the day.

at least it's only during the day. Dems are wound up 100% of the time. That's why they all go crazy around the age of 40

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[georgerussia 0]

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Some would seek to make prostitution legal, perhaps you would.

This assumes that prostitution is illegal in US. This is not correct; it is just not legal everywhere. But it is not illegal in US.

And I see nothing wrong with "prostitution legalization" (decriminalization, actually) either. As you could see, making it "illegal" does not help; if the people who're publically committed to maintain "high morals" are guilty in that, what should we expect from average Joe, who hasn't committed to anything?

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[sundevil777 94]

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Some would seek to make prostitution legal, perhaps you would.

This assumes that prostitution is illegal in US. This is not correct; it is just not legal everywhere. But it is not illegal in US.

And I see nothing wrong with "prostitution legalization" (decriminalization, actually) either. As you could see, making it "illegal" does not help; if the people who're publically committed to maintain "high morals" are guilty in that, what should we expect from average Joe, who hasn't committed to anything?

Are you saying that because prostitution still happens despite it being illegal, it therefore should not be illegal?

Has making any crime illegal prevented it from still occurring? To pretend that prostitution is unique in this regard is not right.

A very small segment of prostitution might be correctly called 'victimless'. Most of it is not.

Of course some of the people in our government commit crimes, despite publicly committing to not doing so. Does that mean all of those crimes should be decriminalized? I think not. Your logic doesn't work. A discussion of decriminalizing certain activities is worth having, but not for the reasons you suggest.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[kallend 1,653]

Now Wolfowitz has gone too, apparently

www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=acDeuAkw1pCY&refer=home

GOOD RIDDANCE.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 2,442]

>Are you saying that because prostitution still happens despite it being
>illegal, it therefore should not be illegal?

No, he is saying that in some places it is not, in fact, illegal.

>Has making any crime illegal prevented it from still occurring? To pretend
> that prostitution is unique in this regard is not right.

Nope. Indeed, there would be a lot of benefits to making it legal (like medical exam requirements to reduce the spread of STD's) in areas where it currently is illegal.

[georgerussia 0]

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Are you saying that because prostitution still happens despite it being illegal, it therefore should not be illegal?

The fact is that prostitution is legal in some counties in US (for example, in Sin City in Nevada). Therefore the claim that prostitution is illegal in US is invalid, as Nevada is part of US. AFAIK prostitution is not subject of federal laws, but to state, or (in case of Nevada) local county laws.

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A very small segment of prostitution might be correctly called 'victimless'. Most of it is not.

This is very generic statement, which is not true in most cases. Generally only a small percentage of the population actually likes to work - and even less people are happy with what they do. Most people work because they just have to, and my local cashier in Safeway is a typical "victim" as well - just doing different kind of work.

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Of course some of the people in our government commit crimes, despite publicly committing to not doing so. Does that mean all of those crimes should be decriminalized?

IMHO some "crimes" should be decriminalized no matter whether some people of the government are doing it or not. This is not a reason, obviously. The main reason is that I see no really justified objections for that, and the only I've heard so far are based on "moral values", or other stuff like Jesus and the Bible, which basically has no real value.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[tbrown 26]

Aren't you just dying to know who else was a client...

[sundevil777 94]

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>Are you saying that because prostitution still happens despite it being
>illegal, it therefore should not be illegal?

No, he is saying that in some places it is not, in fact, illegal.

You seem to pretend to not see the clear implication that was not explicitly written, but I think you can read between the lines better than that.

He was strongly implying the conclusion that because it still happens despite being illegal, that it should be decriminalized. Obviously I was trying to get him to be more direct and acknowledge if this was in fact his intention. That argument can be applied to any illegal activity, therefore I conclude it has no value. My point is that a discussion of whether prostitution should be legalized should not use that as an argument in its favor.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[sundevil777 94]

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Are you saying that because prostitution still happens despite it being illegal, it therefore should not be illegal?

The fact is that prostitution is legal in some counties in US (for example, in Sin City in Nevada). Therefore the claim that prostitution is illegal in US is invalid, as Nevada is part of US. AFAIK prostitution is not subject of federal laws, but to state, or (in case of Nevada) local county laws.

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A very small segment of prostitution might be correctly called 'victimless'. Most of it is not.

This is very generic statement, which is not true in most cases. Generally only a small percentage of the population actually likes to work - and even less people are happy with what they do. Most people work because they just have to, and my local cashier in Safeway is a typical "victim" as well - just doing different kind of work.

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Of course some of the people in our government commit crimes, despite publicly committing to not doing so. Does that mean all of those crimes should be decriminalized?

IMHO some "crimes" should be decriminalized no matter whether some people of the government are doing it or not. This is not a reason, obviously. The main reason is that I see no really justified objections for that, and the only I've heard so far are based on "moral values", or other stuff like Jesus and the Bible, which basically has no real value.

You remind us again that it is legal in a small part of Nevada (although not in Las Vegas), but does their experience with legalization support an argument that it should be legalized elsewhere? Perhaps it does, but just stating the well known fact that it is legal in a small part of Nevada does not accomplish that.

You clearly implied that the criminal act of soliciting prostitution by those in government supports the case for legalization. I agree with your conclusion, as you now say, that it doesn't.

There are many acts that are illegal based on moral values that I think you would support. Does an atheist have no values or standards that are at least in effect 'moral values'?

The idea that prostitution should be legalized is, I think, based on the assertion that it is a victimless crime. I contend that it is not.

An analogy to workers at Safeway is a really, terribly, crappy analogy.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[georgerussia 0]

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You remind us again that it is legal in a small part of Nevada (although not in Las Vegas), but does their experience with legalization support an argument that it should be legalized elsewhere?


The only purpose of this reminder was to tell you that your claim that prostitution is illegal in US is wrong. What it means is currently out of scope.

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Perhaps it does, but just stating the well known fact that it is legal in a small part of Nevada does not accomplish that.

It does, as this part of Nevada is still US.

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You clearly implied that the criminal act of soliciting prostitution by those in government supports the case for legalization.

Where did I say that?

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There are many acts that are illegal based on moral values that I think you would support.

Yes, if the harm of those actions exist and could be proven. There are only few of them, though. And in most cases you most likely think incorrectly; you have no idea what I would support.

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Does an atheist have no values or standards that are at least in effect 'moral values'?

Yes, they have. The difference is that having some moral values does not mean that everyone else has to act according to those moral values. For example, I do not go to church, but I do not tell you that you should not either. I only want nobody force me and my children to go to church - even though you are sure we all will go to hell when we die.

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The idea that prostitution should be legalized is, I think, based on the assertion that it is a victimless crime. I contend that it is not.

What are your arguments? Just please don't bring stupid "studies", I haven't seen any non-biased yet.

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An analogy to workers at Safeway is a really, terribly, crappy analogy.

Why? Just because you have nothing to reply? Or you think that your Safeway cashier is really happy with their job, and not just a victim of the system?

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

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