Blame society for crazy people?

[SpeedRacer 1]

when an incident like VA-TEch or Columbine happens, you get a parade of people blaming the incident on :

1) Lax gun laws
2) Heavy metal music
3) Rap music
4) Violent TV/movies
5) Black Trench Coats
6) Harry Potter

or whatever. Somehow there is some big thing in society that caused it.

But these incidents are usually done by people who are mentally ill.

To what extent can you blame society as a whole for the actions of isolated crazy people?

Jeffrey Dahmer killed people & ate part of their bodies. Do we then say that our society is too permissive on cannibalism??

Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------

[Duckwater 0]

I was saying the same thing today.

Nobody ever addresses what led up to it. The columbine thing was predictable. The jocks were mean as hell to the 'nerds', calling them fags and stuff.

I cant believe that schools still allow behavior that would get you fired instantly in corporate america.

We all just want to demonize them and ignore the fact that the demons were created by the other kids, in part.

This Korean guy, who knows.....Probably a whack job like Dalhmer.

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

when an incident like VA-TEch or Columbine happens, you get a parade of people blaming the incident on :

1) Lax gun laws
2) Heavy metal music
3) Rap music
4) Violent TV/movies
5) Black Trench Coats
6) Harry Potter

or whatever...

7) The police.
8) The university president.
9) The NRA.
10) The gun store.
11) The gun manufacturer.

The one person you won't see anyone blaming is the actual shooter himself.

The people that are responsible, are everyone that didn't do it!

[Duckwater 0]

If I come up to you and start tapping you on the shoulder, and just keep doing it, following you around all day.....You are going to slap me at some point.

Are you wrong for slapping me? Yes. Am I the reason why you slapped me? 100%

With as mean as kids are to each other, Im suprised this doesnt happen more often.

The guns are totally innocent. They never insulted or made fun of anyone. We had shotguns in the back windows of all the trucks at my high school. Nobody shot anyone.

[SpeedRacer 1]

Quote

I was saying the same thing today.

Nobody ever addresses what led up to it. The columbine thing was predictable. The jocks were mean as hell to the 'nerds', calling them fags and stuff.

I cant believe that schools still allow behavior that would get you fired instantly in corporate america.

We all just want to demonize them and ignore the fact that the demons were created by the other kids, in part.

This Korean guy, who knows.....Probably a whack job like Dalhmer.

In the Columbine incident, the leader of the group was a diagnosed psychotic, IIRC. Supposedly he had stopped taking his meds a few weeks before the incident.

Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Blame me it's all my fault. After all I am from Canada and I've spent time in the real South Park in Colorado. See the correlation? Hasn't anyone noticed that my head splits in two when I talk.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[ErricoMalatesta 0]

Quote

when an incident like VA-TEch or Columbine happens, you get a parade of people blaming the incident on :

1) Lax gun laws
2) Heavy metal music
3) Rap music
4) Violent TV/movies
5) Black Trench Coats
6) Harry Potter

or whatever. Somehow there is some big thing in society that caused it.

But these incidents are usually done by people who are mentally ill.

To what extent can you blame society as a whole for the actions of isolated crazy people?

Jeffrey Dahmer killed people & ate part of their bodies. Do we then say that our society is too permissive on cannibalism??

You can't isolate single causes in an issue that is so complex. If anything it is not just a collective list of things but the culture and society of the U.S as a whole. I won't even go into trying to explain it because im not interested, don't know and you could probably write a book on it but needless to say for contrast look at any other country with similar gun laws, harry potter publication laws, etc and low murder rates.

[NCclimber 0]

We live in a culture that seems to thrive on being fed things to be afraid of. I've heard it called the fear industrial complex.

Also, the whole victimology mindset seems to have gone mainstream.

[Duckwater 0]

Quote

In the Columbine incident, the leader of the group was a diagnosed psychotic, IIRC. Supposedly he had stopped taking his meds a few weeks before the incident.

I didnt know that,,,,,but certainly constanly teasing and taunting and being called every name in the book didnt help. The problem is how do you identify these people without violating their rights? You cant. Can you reliably predict the possible event, no. Can you change the way students treat each other? Possibly....And it is the only possible thing you can control.

I guarantee that had Dylan and Eric not been tormented, this would not have happened, psycho or not.

Kids are mean....It needs to be addressed. I went to a Christian High School and there was some pretty rotten shit that went on.

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

If I come up to you and start tapping you on the shoulder, and just keep doing it, following you around all day.....You are going to slap me at some point.

Are you wrong for slapping me? Yes. Am I the reason why you slapped me? 100%

no, you are the 'excuse' why he slapped you

he still chose to slap you - he is right to do so - and the slapping is his fault, 100%. The poking is your fault, 100%. He could also put aside ego and annoyance, walk into a police station and, while you stand there poking him, he could call out a restraining order on you and then you can be arrested

it would eliminate a fight, you could always stand and poke at the criminal in the cell with you - it takes more character and courage for JR to do the 2nd thing instead of the expediant thing (slap you).

You also are taking a big chance that JR is ticklish.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Duckwater 0]

Quote

he still chose to slap you - he is right to do so - and the slapping is his fault, 100%. The poking is your fault, 100%. He could also put aside ego and annoyance, walk into a police station and, while you stand there poking him, he could call out a restraining order on you and then you can be arrested

I agree with everything you say 100%, in theory. The reality is that there are an unknown number of people out there that are on the edge of losing a measure of sanity. Go to the mall and start poking people. I bet 50% will end up hitting you.

I take the right, wrong legal, illlegal concept out of it and insert the wild card human factor. I assume everyone is about to go postal.

I went postal when I was putting on my rig to go on a jump with a really cute girl. It was now call and I realized someone had hot glued my chest and leg strap hardware together and put tampons in my reserve. Had I not been witha chick, I would not have been near as pissed. Had I found it before now call, it would have been funny. All I did was Jack the offender up against a wall and yelled, which is something I had never done before and I suprised myself as I had never been remotely physical or that pissed.

You never know what might light someones fuse. (Gluing their rig is a safe bet prob)

Its funny as hell now.

[rehmwa 2]

1 - gluing your rig and tampering with your reserve? Did you call the cops? Is it as bad as it sounds (you think it's funny now)? That's attempted murder/manslaughter. Pretty funny, a lot like that "little joke" of trying to run someone down with your truck. I think you have the right to defend your life.

2 - People are jerkoffs and lose it and we can't predict why or when. I agree. I take that lesson as to not go around poking people.

3 - I can't control when others go off. I can only control when I don't. And I believe it is a choice for everyone, at some point, they have to choose to lose it. It may or may not be appropriate, but it's a choice every single time. So the consequences should be based on that.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Duckwater 0]

Quote

Is it as bad as it sounds (you think it's funny now)?

It was not bad, the tampons were under the reserve flap and the leg straps were glued to where I couldnt put the rig on. There was no danger of me jumping it without noticing.

The only thing was me thinking "what else did they do to it?"

I have to footnote all of this with I am always playing pranks and I couldnt stay mad, I dont think I would ever mess with a rig but I have gone to far in other occasions.

[lawrocket 3]

Are we ready to blame society? This means blaming ourselves. Blaming you and me and everybody for it.

Where does the blame come for the shooter? Everybody seeks to blame and blame some more. Meanwhile, you've got a community that is devastated.

It's easy for all of us who are not facing the direct consequences of this to lay blame for it. Was there any interview with someone NOT sitting in a studio who sought to blame anybody except for maybe the school for not getting word out sooner?

No. These kids who and families who are dealign with these losses have other things on their mind than whether Imus's comments caused it.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Amazon 7]

Quote

I won't even go into trying to explain it because im not interested,

But yet here you are posting away about something you dont have a clue about

[Andy9o8 0]

You're using a straw-man argument. You're suggesting that society will be blamed for this guy's craziness, so that – predictably – people will respond with righteous indignation that nobody (well, at least squishy, tree-hugging, pointy-headed libs) wants to accept personal responsibility anymore.

Society didn't cause this guy's conduct, mental illness did. Nothing more, nothing less. I've worked with a lot of mentally ill clients over the years. Illnesses manifest themselves with symptoms. Mental illnesses do, too. Sometimes those symptoms are violent. Sometimes they're not. Sometimes the ill person has the tools at his disposal to act out his delusions, sometimes he doesn't.

To what degree is the mentally ill person responsible for his actions? That can only be answered on a case by case basis, but it depends on the nature and severity of the symptoms at the time of the conduct. When the person dies as the result of his conduct, that usually becomes harder to analyze after the fact.

[kallend 1,623]

Quote

You're using a straw-man argument. You're suggesting that society will be blamed for this guy's craziness, so that – predictably – people will respond with righteous indignation that nobody (well, at least squishy, tree-hugging, pointy-headed libs) wants to accept personal responsibility anymore.

Society didn't cause this guy's conduct, mental illness did. Nothing more, nothing less. I've worked with a lot of mentally ill clients over the years. Illnesses manifest themselves with symptoms. Mental illnesses do, too. Sometimes those symptoms are violent. Sometimes they're not. Sometimes the ill person has the tools at his disposal to act out his delusions, sometimes he doesn't.

To what degree is the mentally ill person responsible for his actions? That can only be answered on a case by case basis, but it depends on the nature and severity of the symptoms at the time of the conduct. When the person dies as the result of his conduct, that usually becomes harder to analyze after the fact.

Society is at fault for allowing crazy people to obtain lethal weapons.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Duckwater 0]

Quote

Society is at fault for allowing crazy people to obtain lethal weapons.

Well, you had better complain to God the Creator. Cain murdered Abel at the get go. We couldnt get 4 people on the earth before we started murdering each other.

If you are an evolutionist, we need to ban rocks because there was a rash of Cavemen Murders in the Paleocavelithic era.

Murder - So easy a caveman could do it.

Dont blame spears, rocks, guns, knives. If someone wants to kill someone, they will find a way.

[Amazon 7]

No we need to blame crazy people for society.

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

Quote

Society is at fault for allowing crazy people to obtain lethal weapons.

Well, you had better complain to God the Creator. Cain murdered Abel at the get go. We couldnt get 4 people on the earth before we started murdering each other.

If you are an evolutionist, we need to ban rocks because there was a rash of Cavemen Murders in the Paleocavelithic era.

Murder - So easy a caveman could do it.

Dont blame spears, rocks, guns, knives. If someone wants to kill someone, they will find a way.

Society should restrict crazy people's access to only the least lethal of weapons.
That hair split thin enough for you?

[Duckwater 0]

Quote

Society should restrict crazy people's access to only the least lethal of weapons.
That hair split thin enough for you?

Define Crazy. Bring a whuffo to a DZ and we are all in straightjackets. Sane people kill others using guns too.
If insane people dont have guns, they lock their kids in a car and roll it into a lake or drown them in the bathtub or chop them up and eat them.

So lets ban Mazdas, Lakes, Bathtubs, Meat Clevers, fava beans, chianti and wood chippers. Whos gonna get rid of all the rocks?

[Buffs303 0]

You blame the person with the gun and that person alone...they chose to perform the act.

To blame anyone/anything else is another act of this society not wanting to take responsibility for one's own actions.

Many of us grew up in this same society, everyone gets teased, and the VAST majority of us have never shot anyone. This guy was a loon.

Many thoughts and prayers to those lost and those affected by this tragedy.

Swoop and Poop....my favorite things to photograph

[Buffs303 0]

One more thing....if I forget to Pull and die....blame Hilary Clinton...she drives me crazy

Swoop and Poop....my favorite things to photograph

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

Society is at fault for allowing crazy people to obtain lethal weapons.

And how would you have determined that this quiet young college man with no criminal history would turn out to go "crazy" some day?

[kallend 1,623]

Quote

Quote

Society is at fault for allowing crazy people to obtain lethal weapons.

And how would you have determined that this quiet young college man with no criminal history would turn out to go "crazy" some day?

That's for those who want easy access to guns to determine.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.