Source of the Hatred for Hillary?

[Nightingale 0]

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About hating Hillary - first off, she's the posterchild for the modern, empowered, feminist. This is certainly a turn off to conservatives. Then going back to 92-94, she's shown to be condescending to traditional women and has a distinctly socialist leaning (i.e. healthcare reform). Moving on to the Lewinski business - she's shown she's clearly willing to compromise her principles for political ambitions. And yes I know all politicians do this, but Mrs. "I'm not a Tammy Wynnette - stand by your man" kind of woman gave Bill a pass for humiliating and betraying her on the national stage. Then there is the carpetbagger business. On top of all this she seems to be a cold, soulless, humorless bitch.

Perhaps her family was more important to her than the fact that her husband got a blow job from some intern... I'm guessing there's got to be something good in that marriage for her, because Bill has fooled around on Hillary pretty much their entire marriage. If that's something she's decided she can live with, that's her business. If she wanted to leave him because of that, she'd have done it long ago. Her private life (and Bill's) is her business, and as long as it doesn't interfere with her (or his) job, I don't give a damn who either one of them is sleeping with.

If Hillary was male (and not married to Bill, of course), I think the neo-cons wouldn't have nearly as many issues with her. The problem isn't Hillary herself, but what she represents.

I think a lot of people hate Hillary because she's a woman who has not only managed to succeed on her own merits and without a hand up from a man... she's managed to succeed in spite of him.

That said, I don't agree with her politics, so I probably wouldn't vote for her unless the libertarians put up a total moron as a candidate.

[happythoughts 0]

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If Hillary was male (and not married to Bill, of course), I think the neo-cons wouldn't have nearly as many issues with her. The problem isn't Hillary herself, but what she represents.

The problem is herself. What she represents is dishonesty. People would dislike her just as much if she was a man, but feminists would refer to her as "that dishonest man".

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I think a lot of people hate Hillary because she's a woman who has not only managed to succeed on her own merits and without a hand up from a man... she's managed to succeed in spite of him.

She wasn't the governor, she wasn't the president.
Her success was being a lawyer. My niece is a lawyer, and being asked to be a judge. People respect and like my niece for her honesty.

As far as "a hand up from a man", do you really believe that she would be a senator in NY today if her husband hadn't been President?

She would still be out in Arkansas doing real estate deals and stealing dead flies from blind spiders.

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That said, I don't agree with her politics, so I probably wouldn't vote for her unless the libertarians put up a total moron as a candidate.

Sadly, most of the people that I know, vote against, not for, a candidate.
The "less of two evils" is a commentary.

[Amazon 7]

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She would still be out in Arkansas doing real estate deals and stealing dead flies from blind spiders.

Gee no angst there I see...

ACTUALLY... she would probably have remained in IL and been quite successfull on her own had she not met Billy Boy...


Please notice she comes from a CONSERVATIVE background.....

Hillary Rodham was born in Chicago, Illinois, and was raised in a Methodist family in Park Ridge, Illinois. Her father, Hugh Ellsworth Rodham, the son of English immigrants, was an executive in the textile industry in Scranton, Pennsylvania, and her mother, Dorothy Emma Howell Rodham, was a homemaker. She has two younger brothers, Hugh and Tony.

As a child, Hillary was involved in many activities at church and at a public school in Park Ridge. Rodham was fond of sports including tennis, ice skating, ballet, swimming, volleyball, and softball. She earned many awards as a Brownie and Girl Scout.[1] Prior to graduating from Maine South High School, she attended Maine East High School, where she served as class president, a member of the student council, a member of the debating team, and as a member of the National Honor Society. During her last year of high school, she received the school's first social science award. Raised in a politically conservative Republican family[2], in 1964 (at age 16) Hillary Rodham campaigned for Republican presidential candidate Barry Goldwater.[3] Her parents encouraged her to pursue the career of her choice.[3]

In 1965, Rodham enrolled at Wellesley College where she became active in politics, serving as president of the Wellesley College Chapter of the College Republicans. During her junior year in 1968, Rodham was affected by the death of civil rights leader Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., whom she had met in person in 1962.[1] After attending the "Wellesley in Washington" program at the urging of Professor Alan Schechter, her political views became more in tune with American liberalism and she joined the Democratic Party. Named valedictorian of her graduating class at Wellesley, Rodham graduated in 1969 with departmental honors in Political Science. She became the first student in Wellesley College history to deliver their commencement address.[4] The Associated Press reported at the time that her speech received a standing ovation lasting seven minutes.[5] She was featured in an article published in Life magazine because of the response to her speech, which was controversial in that it criticized Republican Senator Edward W. Brooke, who had spoken before her.[1]

In 1969, Rodham entered Yale Law School, where she served on the Board of Editors of Yale Review of Law and Social Action and worked with underprivileged children at the Yale-New Haven Hospital. During the summer of 1970, she was awarded a grant to work at the Children's Defense Fund in Cambridge, Massachusetts. During the late spring of 1971, she began dating Bill Clinton, also a Yale Law School student. During the summer of 1971, she traveled to Washington to work on Senator Walter Mondale's subcommittee on migrant workers, researching migrant problems in housing, sanitation, health and education. For the summer of 1972, Rodham worked in the western states for Democratic presidential candidate George McGovern's campaign. During her second year in law school, she volunteered at the Yale Child Study Center, learning about new research on early childhood brain development. She also took on cases of child abuse at Yale-New Haven Hospital and worked at the city Legal Services, providing free legal service to the poor. She received a Juris Doctor (J.D.) degree from Yale in 1973, having written a thesis on the rights of children,[1] and began a year of post-graduate study on children and medicine at the Yale Child Study Center.

[NCclimber 0]

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Does the word"smarmy" mean anything?

It must have been a word Lush Rimjob used because its now been used by 3 Right Wingers this week in SC alone..

Which THREE supposed right wingers are you talking about?

chirp, chirp.





Who is really surprised?

[jm951 0]

As I see it, she's in it for the power.

Things I really, really don't like about her-

1) Condescending attitude (Leona Helmsley comes to mind)
2) Carpetbagger, she couldn't get elected in her own state, IL or AR, so she went to one of the highest concentrations of liberals in the country outside of the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia.
3) What really happened with the Rose Law firm records anyway? You want someone with that poor of a memory in charge?
4) Just like her hubby, take a poll, take a stand. Just what are her personal convictions and when, if ever, do they enter into the decision making process?
5) Gun control- no gray area for the dems there, look at Schumer, Obama, Feinstein et al.
6) She's a socialist.
7) Would you really want one of the most liberal women in the country teamed up with the likes of Pelosi and Reid? Whatever happened to the idea of voting balance?

While I am a R, I'm no fan of the spending and governmental expansion of recent. And don't even go anywhere near border security. The problem as I see it is both parties have truly lost their ability to pick a course and stay with it. It's getting harder and harder at election time.

[happythoughts 0]

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she would probably have remained in IL and been quite successfull on her own

I have no doubt that she would have remained in IL and been just as successful at real estate. Or maybe bought a print dress, made cookies, and had 12 kids on a corn farm.

The key word is "probably". She probably wouldn't have built the political collateral in IL to become a senator in NY and make a presidential bid.

I say "probably" because this is all just theory and all theories are equally valid.

The facts are: She wasn't elected to anything until after her husband was president. Good coat tails.

[Amazon 7]

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Which THREE supposed right wingers are you talking about?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

chirp, chirp.

Who is really surprised?

Royd Jan 23, 2007, 4:48 PM

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2632248#2632248


And .. GEEE.. lookie
NCclimber Dropzone.com: Recycle Bin Jan 22, 2007, 5:06 AM

52% Re: [Amazon] The actual "Clinton Got A Blowjob" thread, not "Fascists Dems Impeaching Bush/Cheney" thread NCclimber Dropzone.com: Recycle Bin Jan 22, 2007, 5:06 AM

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2576192#2576192

It seems to be a favorite word of yours...

[lawrocket 3]

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I still can't wrap my head around the liberal's love of all things socialist...

It's actually quite simple, mike. When Jane Fonda said, "If everyone knew what communism really was they'd pray for it" she never pictured herself toiling 14 hours a day in the cane fields during harvest.

When a person looks to socialism, they come in one of two tracks: 1) the person hoping somebody else will take care of them; or 2) the person hoping to be in charge of it.

Socialism is the concept that the government spends other people's money on other people. Hence, you have a situation wherein the government decide what the peasants will get and how much will be spent. So as opposed to letting people spend their own money on themselves, or letting people spend their own money on others, socialism operates so that people spend other people's money on other people.

Ah, but to the socialists IN CHARGE, it also allows them to spend other people's money on themselves. Congress votes itself pay raises, right? It got so bad that there becames a Constitutional Amendment that limited the immediate effectiveness.

So, if I am in charge of spending other people's money on other people, I can make sure I am handsomely compensated for it since I bring the money in.

This is what socialists long for - being in charge of the spending, for the person in charge has the power and the bucks - which enables them to work outside of the system that they operate.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[NCclimber 0]

Me, Royd.

Who is the 3rd supposed right wingers?

Looking at the search results for smarmy, it is fairly obvious I use it on a semi-regular basis.

The fact that Royd also used is clear evidence that it's officially a Lush rimjob, ultra-rightwing, neo-con buzzword. Or at least I could see you reaching that conclusion.

DURRR

Oh yeah, I know I haven't heard Rush this year. I might have caught a few minutes of him in 2006... maybe.

[DaVinci 0]

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But people who dislike her cannot make tangible any reasons for it other than...... she's a Clinton.

You seem to just ignore over half of the posts in this thread.

[Andy9o8 0]

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The facts are: She wasn't elected to anything until after her husband was president. Good coat tails.

I don't like it, but family coattails have gotten a huge number of people, of all parties, elected to office throughout the history of the US. Nice, long tradition going all the way back to the Adams family.

[Andy9o8 0]

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Socialism is the concept that the government spends other people's money on other people.

Or, one might compare it (in theory at least) to being a paying shareholder in a "co-op" apartment building.

[NCclimber 0]

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The facts are: She wasn't elected to anything until after her husband was president. Good coat tails.

I don't like it, but family coattails have gotten a huge number of people, of all parties, elected to office throughout the history of the US. Nice, long tradition going all the way back to the Adams family.

But looking at the Presidents of the last 60 years, I only see two who rode family coattails to the White House.

[happythoughts 0]

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The facts are: She wasn't elected to anything until after her husband was president. Good coat tails.

I don't like it, but family coattails have gotten a huge number of people, of all parties, elected to office throughout the history of the US. Nice, long tradition going all the way back to the Adams family.

We could discuss the political families of history and royalty. It has no relevance when discussing the character of one person. Does the ability of the Borgias to rule Italy bear on the success of Hillary? No.

The only parallel is that of the mechanism.
It doesn't measure her credibility. She is where she is because of her marriage to a career political figure.

[Andy9o8 0]

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But looking at the Presidents of the last 60 years, I only see two who rode family coattails to the White House.

Expanding on that slightly, just off the top of my head, and in no particular order, from 1900 on:

- FDR's entire political career was probably helped by being Teddy Roosevelt's distant relative and, especially, namesake;
- Charles Robb, a Virginia Governor and Senator, is LBJ's son-in-law;
- Former Sen. Russell Long is Huey Long's son;
- JFK was the son of then well-known former Ambassador Joseph Kennedy;
- Teddy and Bobby Kennedy each rode JFK's coattails to the Senate; and Bobby carpet-bagged to New York to do it, just like Hillary did;
- Nelson Rockefeller and W. Va. Sen Jay Rockefeller each benefitted from family coattails, beginning with John D. Rockefeller;
- Former Congressman Barry Goldwater, Jr. is the son of famous Senator & presidential candidate Barry Goldwater;
- Al Gore is a Senator's son;
- George H.W. Bush is a Senator's son;
- George W. and Jeb Bush, of course, are George H.W.'s sons. A lot of Floridians consider Jeb to be a carpet-bagger, too.
-Former Va. Senator George Allen is the son of iconic Washington Redskins' former coach George Allen
- Bill's political career begat Hillary's political career

[lawrocket 3]

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One of the primary rules of politics, "If you don't want to answer the question, answer a question that you do like".

Nixon talked about his dog.

Actually, the Checker's Speech was in response to questions about receiving gifts. In his speech, he admitted receiving the dog as a gift - I think the only admission of a gift he made. And he said people may make an issue out of the gift but that he didn't care, that the kids love the dog, and that they were gonna keep the dog.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[wmw999 2,170]

Not to mention Tafts in Ohio, Daleys in Chicago, Bentsens in Texas. Wikipedia article on political families in the US.

For some it's the family business. Which isn't all that surprising -- if you find relatives doing something that you think is interesting, you're more likely to learn about it than if you see something interesting on TV.

Children of doctors are more likely to become doctors than people who watch doctor TV shows as well

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Royd 0]

Me, Royd.

Who is the 3rd supposed right wingers?

Looking at the search results for smarmy, it is fairly obvious I use it on a semi-regular basis.

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officially a Lush rimjob, ultra-rightwing, neo-con buzzword. Or at least I could see you reaching that conclusion.

I actually looked the word up in Wikepedia to see if it was a real word because it wasn't in my old set of dictionaries.

The definition of the word describes her to a "t".

I would also dare to call her dowdy. She's just smarmy enough to hide it.

[csbrady 0]

this is a good topic and one that i find interesting to read. I only have one question and it stems from something i heard the other day from one of my friends who i work with.

Why didnt she meet with the Gold Star Mothers when they visited washington dc?

Now i personally dont know the reason and maybe someone on here does. Im not trying to cause hate and discontent but its something that really bothers me if its true.

for thoughs of you out there who dont know who the gold star mothers are then heres the answer. When son's and daughter's go off and fight in a war there parents put in a window or door a flag that has a blue star on it. if one day there son or daughter is killed in that war they will hang a flag with a Gold star on it.

I really hope she didnt just blow thoughs mothers off. if so then fuck her.

BSBD

Carl

[Andy9o8 0]

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something i heard the other day from one of my friends who i work with.

Why didnt she meet with the Gold Star Mothers when they visited washington dc?

I really hope she didnt just blow thoughs mothers off. if so then fuck her.

BSBD

Carl

It's an urban myth. Took me about 10 seconds to look up on Google:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/goldstar.asp

[Amazon 7]

But DUDE.. that does not fit the required hate mongering for Hillary.

[happythoughts 0]

I think it is funny that someone uses one word and the thread shifts to "guilty by association". Instead of, "Is she really like this?", the conversation is "anyone using that word is obviously a (insert label).

Then, the person labeled spends their time explaining why they are not a member of the assigned group (because it is somehow a negative label vs the label of the opposite group).

I keep thinking that there are people riding around in their cars with little plastic statues of the Virgin Hillary on the dashboard.

Anyone who discusses her failures is called the Anti-Christ and spends the rest of the day explaining why they are not. The actual value of the thread would be a discussion of Hillary, not other posters.

It is a basic failure of an argument to attack the poster and not their post. Assigning a negative label and attacking the label is an example of this.

I remember the day that a white lib disagreed with a black teacher at an outdoor rally at the university. The white guy told the black guy, "That's what the slave masters have always said..." Imagine the result.

[Gawain 0]

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Or Schwarzenneger's ripping of the Gov seat from Grey Davis.

Oh please...Gov. Davis got what he deserved. Even if he was competent, President and Sen. Clinton couldn't let him succeed because he would've run for the Presidency after a [would-be] second CA gov. term.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[kelpdiver 2]

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It felt as though she believed a senate seat was owed to her. (California equilivent was Kathleen Brown's campaign for governor. )

Or Schwarzenneger's ripping of the Gov seat from Grey Davis.

Even Davis commented favorably on the job Arnold did in taking over. And have no doubt - someone was going to replace Davis. He used his incumbency advantage to sabotage the more moderal Republic candidates in the primary and after winning threw in the towel for performance. California could have done a lot worse. (like Cruz)

Interestingly enough, the talk of Arnold running had been around for a while and Davis sent out some dirt about a woman and convinced the ironman (at least for a while) that he didn't want to deal with the shit of politics.

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And let's not kid ourselves - lots of GOP faithful aren't keen on pushy or liberal broads, nevermind a combo deal.

True, but the funny thing is that she will easily defeat McCain or Guliani if the Dems pick her.

You really believe yourself when you make such crazy claims?

The last two elections were dead heats. I don't think Clinton can get more than 10% of those that voted for Bush. And I know she can't get 90% of those that voted for Kerry or Gore. A lot of Democrats will vote for McCain. (Talk about a shitty choice to have to make) Only Bush has higher negative opinion ratings than she does.

The way the GOP won in 2000 was to indentify a well funded horse early on and pick him by the end of 1999. Doesn't matter if you like him much or not, can he win. In other words, a guy like Edwards. I don't think Clinton can beat any Republican that makes it to the fall.

And if the GOP can stomach their dislike for McCain, I'm not sure any Democrat can beat him.

[mnealtx 0]

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When a person looks to socialism, they come in one of two tracks: 1) the person hoping somebody else will take care of them; or 2) the person hoping to be in charge of it.

I hadn't looked at it in that light...thanks!

So it comes back to the whole "the only reason socialism hasn't worked yet is because the right people haven't been in charge" bit, then...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706