Bush/Cheney Impeachment

[narcimund 0]

Dance dance dance. Step one step two distract three feint feint thrust.

Can't focus on a single point long enough to admit you're being egregiously hypocritical, can you?

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[Lindsey 0]

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I can forgive lying under oath about a blow job. I can't forgive lying (even when not under oath) in order to invade a country that results in the death of thousands of innocent Iraqi people and American soldiers.

Then you are willing to admit to a double standard.

I don't think it's a double standard at all. I think one is a forgivable transgression and the other is not.

As far as "dropping it," it's something that I rarely talk about or think about....I have a lot of other things going on in my life that tend to hold my attention most of the time. There's nothing for me to drop. But I'll ALWAYS consider GWB one of the most...if not *the* most...reprehensible leaders (and I use the term loosely) ever. I still probably won't think about him often though.

linz

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A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[DaVinci 0]

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Dance dance dance. Step one step two distract three feint feint thrust

As opposed to your dance? Bitch, gripe, complain....Wait for it...Provide no proof, make accusations, and repeat.

[narcimund 0]

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As opposed to your dance? Bitch, gripe, complain....Wait for it...Provide no proof, make accusations, and repeat.

I haven't done a single one of those things. I've simply pointed clearly to your hypocrisy. That's unforgivable, I know, but characterizing it as bitching, griping, or complaining is a terribly weak distraction.

Pathetically weak in fact. You're really slipping.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[DaVinci 0]

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I don't think it's a double standard at all. I think one is a forgivable transgression and the other is not.

One was proven, the other is not. And thats kinda my point.

I welcome the impeachment. I really hope you get it and can't wait to see the results. All I ever want is the truth no matter from which side of the party line it is on.

[DaVinci 0]

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I haven't done a single one of those things. I've simply pointed clearly to your hypocrisy. That's unforgivable, I know, but characterizing it as bitching, griping, or complaining is a terribly weak distraction.

Pathetically weak in fact. You're really slipping.

Ya know what part of your dance I forgot? I really can't believe I did...

The attacks!!!!!

Sheesh, How could I have missed mentioning your little jabs? Can't back your stance, so you distract and attack and insult.

Infact if the good folks reading this thread look back between us they will see you started this whole "dance" thing.

Edit:

Your first post was about Bush.
"That's in keeping with a large majority of the Bush apologists on dropzone who seem to still be campaigning against Clinton."

Your second an attack:
"You mean the way you stopped bashing Billy when he was found not guilty? "

Your third actually ALMOST related to the thread..Or the direction you took the thread.

The next a flat out attack "DaVinci wants it both ways. He wants to imagine his guy would be found not guilty and criticize the hypothetical continuing criticism by the liberals.

But in the exact same post, he ACTUALLY does precisely what he complains the other side WOULD do.

I have little reliable information about Bill Clinton's hypocrisy but we see here a perfect compact example of DaVinci's. "

Then the dance comment and then more attacks.

I know how you play, I have read it many times. Attack things when you can't defend. Distract and divert a thread to your own meanings.

[Lindsey 0]

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I don't think it's a double standard at all. I think one is a forgivable transgression and the other is not.

One was proven, the other is not. And thats kinda my point.

And so what? The former still pales in comparison to the latter. Their difference in magnitude makes your argument about double standards moot.

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[Lucky... 0]

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>It failed but he was unquestionably guilty of lying under oath.

Right. But he was not found guilty of a high crime sufficient to remove him from office; the impeachment proceeding failed. DaVinci said:

"However, I hope that if found not guilty then you guys would stop the bashing."

Clinton was found not guilty in the way DaVinci was using the term; the bashing goes on to this day.

He was guilty, that's not bashing it's a statement of fact and only the dishonest or ignorant would deny it.

The phrase you're looking for is "high crimes and misdemeanors", you omitted that last part.

Just as Reagan/Bush knew of Iran-Contra, but had the patsy develop amnesia. So what's your point?

[Lucky... 0]

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And the death toll from that???


I think Georges death toll is what now.. hundreds of thousands..

Perhaps Laura needed to give him one once in a while to keep him a bit happier as a human being..

He belives in Christ and is born again... SUPPOSEDLY.....so he supposedly believes in the Ten Commandments..
I guess he is one of the Christians of convienience... where he can break the Laws of God .. and the Laws of Man at will and then ask for forgiveness.

Sickening.

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to keep him a bit happier as a human being..

Stop right there, you are falsely referring to the cyberborg monkey as a human..... I can't read anymore.

[Lucky... 0]

Are you guys that hard up that you need to focus on a peripheral issue? Hell, since he started unfucking your party's horrid economy, yea, let's hang him. Graze on over that, the economy/debt/deficit as there is no answer. What did he fuck up in the way of the US gov? He sgned Nafta and he pardoned Symington; what did he fuck up?

Out of things to slam Clinton over so you have to refer to non-pertinent issues?

[sundevil777 94]

Others brought up the standard trivializing of the impeachment of Clinton as if it was all about a BJ. He had to lie about that BJ because he didn't want to admit to a pattern which would have supported Paula Jones' claim. I thought sexual harrasment was a big deal.

I think Clinton's worst fuck ups were accepting Jimmy Carter's self appointed role as the mediator with North Korea and the awful deal that he laid in Clinton's lap. Because he didn't want to insult a former president of his own party, he accepted it. Another really big fuck up was to worry about approval ratings/poll numbers when deciding whether to take/kill Bin Laden. He then had the balls to lie about it with journalist Chris Wallace, and get all in a huff. No lack of ego, that is for sure.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Amazon 7]

So... in your opinion.. since you are being so egalitarian.. what do you consider to be Bush's "fuck up's??

Just curious.. to see what you consider that he might have done wrong?

[sundevil777 94]

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So... in your opinion.. since you are being so egalitarian.. what do you consider to be Bush's "fuck up's??

Just curious.. to see what you consider that he might have done wrong?

Being misled by the intelligence on WMDs in Iraq is pretty bad, but Bush was not at all alone in this regard, so I hesitate to call it a big fuckup. Of course the result after winning the war in Iraq is awful. The lame crap about waiting to get rid of Rumsfeld after the election to avoid it looking like it was a political decision was stupid. Promising to not split Iraq into 3 separate countries was not wise.

He hasn't vetoed nearly enough spending.

A couple of items in the original Patriot Act were unconstitutional.

Saying that Russian President Putin was a good/trustworthy guy was not wise.

Instead of the "No Child Left Behind" stuff for education policy, I would have rather seen the budget of the Dept. of Education cut by about 95%.

Not pursuing a policy of energy independence is really stupid. That should be our weapon against our enemies in the middle east - develop the technology so that the whole world could tell OPEC to shove it.

Of course there is more. What do you think Clinton did that sucked?

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Amazon 7]

I would have to say that Nafta and some of the GATT things he did have caused a great deal of harm to us in the US...too many loopholes.

I think he REALLY screwed up with the dont ask dont tell policy..it was a complete cop out. If those that did not want to serve with other americans that wish to ALSO serve their country...... that would be upset about having to tell a fellow soldier... sorry I do not swing that way.. no thanks then they could leave....right there and then.

HE should have used our forces to stop the genocide in the Balkans.... he could have forced the Europeans to get off their dead asses to put a stop to it far sooner.

Same same in Rwanda.. an international force with us in the lead could have prevented many thousands of deaths....
If we are going to be the worlds policeman.. then so be it.. lets get on with it and get the UN on board for it and help them fix their stupidity..

Perhaps if he had not been hobbled by the repubs he could have gone after the Bin LAden boys with a tad more fervor... instead of having to worry about them causing political mayhem for him using the military options.

He was afraid of using those assets because of his background with the Vietnam Era unlike others who seem to feel they can expend lives with abandon.

[kelpdiver 2]

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I can forgive lying under oath about a blow job. I can't forgive lying (even when not under oath) in order to invade a country that results in the death of thousands of innocent Iraqi people and American soldiers.

Then you are willing to admit to a double standard.

I don't think it's a double standard at all. I think one is a forgivable transgression and the other is not.

Sexual assault (I believe the Jones complaint meets that term) is forgiveable? What if he had done it a few hundred times instead of just a few times?

And if it is about scale - Clinton ordered a few mass bombings of Iraq to try to keep Saddam in line (funny enough, the GOP complained at the time). No doubt hundreds or thousands of Iraqis died directly or indirectly. So at what level of death is it acceptable foreign policy, and at which point is it not? Let me remind you that the justification was the same for both attacks.

Personally, unless we accept that impeachment is an entirely political concept rather than one of justice, I can't see the cause for the same Congress that approved this war to now impeach the Executive for it. I think the Democratic leadership will be happy to let various states and cities pass resolutions to toot their horns and that will be all.

[dorbie 0]

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You want that to be so true.. that Clinton was guilty

How do you feel about all the lies and crimes of the current administration??

Or is your moral indignation only reserved for blowjobs?

I'm not indignant at all, it's just a simple fact. Are you really in such denial that you cannot accept this? Should anyone who accepts the facts in this case instantly be tarred with the vast rigt wing conspiracy brush?

Look, if you think he didn't lie under oath you are either delusional or unfamiliar with the facts, it's really that simple.

As for the larger picture, I think what Ken Starr did is pretty low and Linda Tripp too (well who knows since we weren't in her shoes when she was asked to lie under oath), but none of this has bearing on the FACT that Clinton perjured himself.

Both Clinton and Lewinski lied in the Paula Jones case to hide the truth, that case was initially dismissed unfairly as a result and ultimately Clinton paid $850,000 in damages to his victim.

[jumprunner 0]

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Although I have little doubt that the United States would be a lot better off without Bush/Cheney at the helm, I would not support an impeachment proceeding. What should happen is this:

Congress should pass a bill requiring US troops to leave Iraq by a certain date/under certain circumstances, per their powers under Article 1, Sec 8 clauses 11-16 of the constitution. If Bush vetoes it, override the veto. If he still refuses to follow a valid law passed by Congress, then impeach him for an obvious violation of US law. There won't be much question about guilt vs innocence in that case.

In the meantime, a congressional censure would be more appropriate. You censure presidents for stupidity, dishonesty and incompetence. You impeach them for serious crimes. Lying isn't a serious crime for politicians (unfortunately.)

Well stated. If he gets impeached on the current agenda, there is a chance he may get off on a 'technicality', or for some reason found not guilty due to information given to him that was 'unknowingly' misleading. If he beats the rap, it would only empower him even furthur.

The best way to remove him is the quickest, surest way. Catch him for violation of the law. The fact is, he will do it. He has already stated that he would.

If he plans on doing that, then I have to wonder what else is in his bag of tricks. Thats the reason why I got so radical about the posiiblility of Bush turning this into a police state, because that is the only way he will remain in offfice after violating US law. He must realize that, unless he happens to be a lot stupider than I ever thought he would be.

The sooner Bush and his gang are out, the sooner we can all get our lives back. Im all for the quickest way. As far as prosecution for attrocities he has committed here an abroad, much better to undertake those issues when he is out of office, and under criminal prosecution. The most importand thing right now, is we need to get our lives back, and that wont happen until the Bush gang is out of office.

[jumprunner 0]

Yea, okay, we've heard from you and all the other Bush supporters who support Iraq, support the troops in Iraq, think that the Iraquis are out to get us, blah blah blah. You want your Iraq 'war', as you so call it, then it is only fair that you all should fund the 10 million dollars a day it cost to maintain it. Fair enough?

I dont care about Iraq, or about the troops in Iraq. If they get hurt or killed, its too bad for them. And dont give me any rhetoric about them fighting for my rights, I didnt ask them to do that. Im perfectly capable of fighting for my own rights, thank you. Besides, it isnt rights theyre fighting for, its oil. I guess you could say they are fighting for my oil.

Based on what thats costing the taxpayers, I can honestly say it would be a lot cheaper to just drill for it. It doesnt cost 10 million dollars a day to do that.

[mnealtx 0]

Breaking news - Jumprunner STILL crying over 04 election.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[narcimund 0]

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Breaking news - Jumprunner STILL crying over 04 election.

Breaking news - mnealtx and davinci (and others) STILL crying over 97 sex act between consenting adults.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[mnealtx 0]

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Breaking news - Jumprunner STILL crying over 04 election.

Breaking news - mnealtx and davinci (and others) STILL crying over 97 sex act between consenting adults perjury by a sitting president.

There - fixed that for you.

I know, I know - saying "but he didn't get impeached!" just doesn't have the same oomph as being able to label someone a puritan or homophobe...but you'll just have to live with it.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[narcimund 0]

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Breaking news - Jumprunner STILL crying over 04 election.

Breaking news - mnealtx and davinci (and others) STILL crying over 97 sex act between consenting adults perjury by a sitting president.

There - fixed that for you.

In other words, you admit that you and davinci (and others) refuse to stop bashing a former president who was acquitted in proper legal proceedings while DEMANDING that everyone stop bashing YOUR president BEFORE any legal proceedings happen. And your distractions about homophobia notwithstanding, that hypocricy is my WHOLE point in this thread.

Just once -- ONCE -- it would be nice if you Bush apologists would let a Bush thread be about Bush instead of cowering behind your ancient history gripes about unrelated issues.

It's so revealing of age behavior. It's like Little 9-Year-Old Bobby accused of stealing the cookies screaming, "But Tommy stole candy last month." Be that as it may, Tommy was dealt with already and now it's your turn.

Stop looking for someone else to blame. Take it like a man. You're on stage now. Have some dignity!

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[SkyDekker 1,141]

you are absolutely right, perjury over a blowjob is much more serious than incompetence resulting in the death of tens of thousands.

I mean, one is about sex, which we all know is bad. The other is about killing people, which we all know is good.

[narcimund 0]

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you are absolutely right, perjury over a blowjob is much more serious than incompetence resulting in the death of tens of thousands.

I mean, one is about sex, which we all know is bad. The other is about killing people, which we all know is good.

You miss their point. They don't mean that it's WORSE. In fact, they know it's not related at all.

They simply want you to be distracted by talk about Clinton -- ANYTHING about Clinton -- instead of Bush.

Why? Because talk about Bush embarasses them. They're reawwy reawwy upset -- poor things.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[mnealtx 0]

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Just once -- ONCE -- it would be nice if you Bush apologists would let a Bush thread be about Bush instead of cowering behind your ancient history gripes about unrelated issues.

Just once - ONCE - it would be nice for the Bush haters to actually discuss ISSUES instead of blaming him for everything from the Black Death until now, not to mention labeling any dissenters to your oh-so-enlightened point of view as Puritans, prudes, and anything else y'all can come up with.

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It's so revealing of age behavior. It's like Little 9-Year-Old Bobby accused of stealing the cookies screaming, "But Tommy stole candy last month." Be that as it may, Tommy was dealt with already and now it's your turn.

Stop looking for someone else to blame. Take it like a man. You're on stage now. Have some dignity!

It's quite revealing, how the "party of tolerance" can't have a discussion with someone that has dissenting views without attacking the person.

"Prudes"
"Nazis"
"Fascists"
"Puritans"
"Child Molesters"
"Chickenhawks"
etc, etc, etc.

How many times have you seen people in this forum saying how they wished Bush, Cheney et al were dead, or how they would celebrate if they died?

THERE'S some maturity for 'your side'....

You're on stage now...have some dignity!!

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706