FINALLY!

[Douva 0]

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Tinfoil beanie!

Anyway, some people like carrying guns. It gives them security, a bit like a childs comfort blanket.

Going by statistics, your more likely to injured or killed in general day to day life from a head injury than an armed attacker. So all the armed civilians cutting about their daily lives - have you got your helmets on?

Well, why not?



So

You and Kallend have failed to show that those of us who carry concealed handguns harm you or anybody else in any way, shape, or form, so instead you've taken to making thinly veiled attacks, referring to "tinfoil beanies," and citing irrelevant statistics. If, statistically, a person is more likely to die of heart disease than in a car accident, should that person only wear his or her seatbelt if he or she first makes the effort to diet and exercise? The decision to carry a gun shouldn't be based on statistics.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[Douva 0]

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Incidentally (and I know this thread is about concealed carry) what are the laws on carrying unconcealed? As in wearing a pistol openly in a holster?

It varies by state. In Texas, only law enforcement officers with a badge showing can openly carry a handgun. In some states, such as New Mexico and Arizona, civilians can openly carry without a license; however, they are more limited in the places they can carry than Texas CHL holders.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[billvon 2,476]

>My martial arts and my gun are like my reserve... I'd much rather have
> them and not need them than need them and not have them.

Me too.

I was mugged once in Times Square. Someone had their arm around my throat and their hand in my pocket before I knew what was going on. I honestly thought it was Dave, one of my sparring partners, who was always trying to jump me a la Kato. I tried to throw him. With Dave it never worked - but with this guy it did, and there was this big guy lying on the ground in front of me. Holy shit, I thought - that wasn't Dave!

The whole thing was over in about two seconds. He got up and ran off. He got a few dollars. Had I had a gun, and had he gotten that, I might not be here today. Had I managed to pull the gun, I might have had to shoot him - and that, to me, is a bad result as well.

Dave's a black belt now; I never got past brown. And to this day I've never needed a gun. Works for me. But if someone out there _does_ want to carry a gun, good for them - as long as their gun doesn't make them think that they're safe.

[kallend 1,679]

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Tinfoil beanie!

Anyway, some people like carrying guns. It gives them security, a bit like a childs comfort blanket.

Going by statistics, your more likely to injured or killed in general day to day life from a head injury than an armed attacker. So all the armed civilians cutting about their daily lives - have you got your helmets on?

Well, why not?



So

You and Kallend have failed to show that those of us who carry concealed handguns harm you or anybody else in any way, shape, or form, so instead you've taken to making thinly veiled attacks, referring to "tinfoil beanies," and citing irrelevant statistics. If, statistically, a person is more likely to die of heart disease than in a car accident, should that person only wear his or her seatbelt if he or she first makes the effort to diet and exercise? The decision to carry a gun shouldn't be based on statistics.

I wasn't TRYING to suggest concealed handguns cause harm. Where did I write that?

Carrying a handgun is just likely to be less useful than carrying a defibrillator (or lots of other things). But if it makes you FEEL less fearful of going out and about, I suppose it's OK.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[GQ_jumper 4]

But if someone out there _does_ want to carry a gun, good for them - as long as their gun doesn't make them think that they're safe.

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I'd like to throw in a little else on this one, anyone who's ever attended, taught, or sat in on a women's self-defense class will tell you that it is widely accepted that these male predators who attack women choose their targets based on how much they present themselves as a "target". The way they carry themselves says a lot about how easily it would be to make them a victim. Carrying a firearm would probably do a lot for the confidence of these women, knowing that they have the means to protect themselves would more than likely cause them to carry themselves in a manner that does not project fear and weakness, and this could be a deterrent. Just a little food for though, even though they may have never needed it in the first place the added confidence they carry themselves with would further ensure this. I can recall countless times where the manner in which I carried myself allowed me to get through situations without getting into a fight, and if that explanation doesn't work for you then I'll just go with the saying, it's better to have and not need than need and not have

take care all

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

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[vortexring 0]

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Tinfoil beanie!

Anyway, some people like carrying guns. It gives them security, a bit like a childs comfort blanket.

Going by statistics, your more likely to injured or killed in general day to day life from a head injury than an armed attacker. So all the armed civilians cutting about their daily lives - have you got your helmets on?

Well, why not?



So

You and Kallend have failed to show that those of us who carry concealed handguns harm you or anybody else in any way, shape, or form, so instead you've taken to making thinly veiled attacks, referring to "tinfoil beanies," and citing irrelevant statistics. If, statistically, a person is more likely to die of heart disease than in a car accident, should that person only wear his or her seatbelt if he or she first makes the effort to diet and exercise? The decision to carry a gun shouldn't be based on statistics.

Well, if you feel they are attacks - let me apologise - they're not.
Taking the piss a little? Yes indeed.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[DaVinci 0]

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Carrying a handgun is just likely to be less useful than carrying a defibrillator (or lots of other things).

So are you against people having the right to carry a gun, or a defibrillator for that matter?

[Nightingale 0]

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>My martial arts and my gun are like my reserve... I'd much rather have
> them and not need them than need them and not have them.


Dave's a black belt now; I never got past brown. And to this day I've never needed a gun. Works for me. But if someone out there _does_ want to carry a gun, good for them - as long as their gun doesn't make them think that they're safe.

Very true. Guns don't make you safe. They can make you safer. Without proper training, they can put you in more danger.

[kallend 1,679]

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Carrying a handgun is just likely to be less useful than carrying a defibrillator (or lots of other things).

So are you against people having the right to carry a gun, or a defibrillator for that matter?

Search the archives and you will find the answer.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Douva 0]

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>My martial arts and my gun are like my reserve... I'd much rather have
> them and not need them than need them and not have them.


Dave's a black belt now; I never got past brown. And to this day I've never needed a gun. Works for me. But if someone out there _does_ want to carry a gun, good for them - as long as their gun doesn't make them think that they're safe.

Very true. Guns don't make you safe. They can make you safer. Without proper training, they can put you in more danger.

It's like they say about martial arts--Martial arts won't make you a better fighter than the next guy, but they will make you a better fighter than you are.

Nothing you can do will ever make you perfectly safe, but there are steps you can take to make yourself safer.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[Douva 0]

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Tinfoil beanie!

Anyway, some people like carrying guns. It gives them security, a bit like a childs comfort blanket.

Going by statistics, your more likely to injured or killed in general day to day life from a head injury than an armed attacker. So all the armed civilians cutting about their daily lives - have you got your helmets on?

Well, why not?



So

You and Kallend have failed to show that those of us who carry concealed handguns harm you or anybody else in any way, shape, or form, so instead you've taken to making thinly veiled attacks, referring to "tinfoil beanies," and citing irrelevant statistics. If, statistically, a person is more likely to die of heart disease than in a car accident, should that person only wear his or her seatbelt if he or she first makes the effort to diet and exercise? The decision to carry a gun shouldn't be based on statistics.

Well, if you feel they are attacks - let me apologise - they're not.
Taking the piss a little? Yes indeed.

In our culture, tinfoil hats are synonymous with paranoid delusions. Your tinfoil hat comments are blatant insults, as is Kallend's comment that I should go ahead and carry a gun if it makes me "less fearful about going out and about," following several posts by me where I stated repeatedly that carrying a gun is not about being fearful.

The two of you can't argue against people carrying concealed handguns on the basis that doing so hurts anybody, and you can't argue against carrying handguns on the basis that doing so is completely useless, so instead you throw around irrelevant heart attack statistics and make disparaging remarks about the people who carry concealed handguns, questioning both our motivation for doing so and our state of mind.

Not that it's at all relevant to the topic of carrying concealed handguns, but I'm twenty-seven years old, exercises nearly every day, and try to maintain a balanced died, so statistically, I'm MUCH more likely to be the victim of a violent crime than have a heart attack. So your defibrillator argument is not valid when talking to me. How about the two of you? I believe Kallend already said he's 61. How old are you Vortexring? How often do the two of you work out? How often do you carry a defibrillator? How often do you wear a seatbelt when driving or riding in a car? Statistically, you're more likely to be killed by a heart attack than a car accident, so if you're not going to take steps to prevent dying of a heart attack, why would you bother taking steps to prevent dying in a car accident?

Personally, I think you two are the ones who are fearful. Like a caveman fearing fire, you fear what you don't understand. You've never had much exposure to guns, and you know that they hurt people, so you simply fear them. Not only do you feel justified in fearing guns, you feel justified in publicly ridiculing anybody who carries one. Kallend admitted a few posts back that he doesn't think carrying a concealed handgun hurts anybody. Assuming you feel the same way, Vortexring, why did the two of you feel the need to interject your opinions into this thread? The title of the thread isn't "Do you believe carrying a concealed handgun is worthwhile?" The title of this thread is "FINALLY!"--as in "I FINALLY got my concealed handgun license." It's this kind of flaunting of baseless opinions that makes it impossible for someone to make a simple statement like "I finally got my concealed handgun license" in the Bonfire. The anti-gun nuts, not the gun nuts, are the reason all gun threads end up in Speakers Corner. Like a couple of religious fanatics, you can't resist the urge to cram your opinions down people's throats, regardless of whether or not they're relevant or called for.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[GQ_jumper 4]

Very true. Guns don't make you safe. They can make you safer. Without proper training, they can put you in more danger.

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Exactly. It's a double edged sword, I support having a concealed carry permit 100 percent, to those who have taken the time to become proficient with what they choose to carry, as well as have their head on straight.

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

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[kallend 1,679]

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Personally, I think you two are the ones who are fearful. Like a caveman fearing fire, you fear what you don't understand. You've never had much exposure to guns, and you know that they hurt people, so you simply fear them. Not only do you feel justified in fearing guns, you feel justified in publicly ridiculing anybody who carries one. Kallend admitted a few posts back that he doesn't think carrying a concealed handgun hurts anybody. .

What an absolute load of bollocks. You have no idea AT ALL of my prior experience with guns.

And YES, I do think anyone ouside of the police, security services and the military that believes they need a gun to go about their daily business is fearful, regardless of what they say.

Further, nowhere in my posting record will you find any suggestion of outlawing guns, so don't try that one on either.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Douva 0]

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You have no idea AT ALL of my prior experience with guns.

So prove me wrong. What is the nature of your extensive experience with firearms?

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[jenfly00 0]

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Well, if you feel they are attacks - let me apologise - they're not.
Taking the piss a little? Yes indeed.

I read your comments as spirited debate with a bit of fun thrown in.

Douva, unwind a bit, dude.

-----------------------
"O brave new world that has such people in it".

[Douva 0]

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Well, if you feel they are attacks - let me apologise - they're not.
Taking the piss a little? Yes indeed.

I read your comments as spirited debate with a bit of fun thrown in.

Douva, unwind a bit, dude.

As my dad used to tell me when I was a kid, if it's not funny to everybody, it's not funny. Accusing a group of people of being a bunch of nuts running around in tinfoil hats is not an intelligent rebuttal; it's a weak personal attack, and it's definitely not funny to the people being attacked.

Suppose you were on a non-skydiving forum telling somebody about getting your "D" license, when a non-skydiver decided to jump into the thread and start talking about how asinine skydiving is and how there's no good reason for people to jump out of perfectly good airplanes. And then, after you intelligently answered his accusations, he ignored your response and made a wisecrack inferring that all skydivers are just whackos with death wishes. Would you consider that to be just "a bit of fun thrown in?"

People should learn not to start a debate if they don't want/can't handle a debate. You don't slap someone in the face and then jump back and say, "Hey, back off--I was just trying to have some fun."

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[kallend 1,679]

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You have no idea AT ALL of my prior experience with guns.

So prove me wrong. What is the nature of your extensive experience with firearms?

Enough. Based on what you wrote earlier in this thread, I had my first firearms training course 12 years BEFORE you were born!

I've made over 1,900 skydives. I work on the south side of Chicago. I've walked alone and unarmed through some of the worst neighborhoods in the USA.

What makes you think I'm scared of guns?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Douva 0]

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You have no idea AT ALL of my prior experience with guns.

So prove me wrong. What is the nature of your extensive experience with firearms?

Enough. Based on what you wrote earlier in this thread, I had my first firearms training course 12 years BEFORE you were born!

I've made over 1,900 skydives. I work on the south side of Chicago. I've walked alone and unarmed through some of the worst neighborhoods in the USA.

What makes you think I'm scared of guns?

I'd like to know the nature of your experience with firearms. Considering that you didn't have any firearms training until you were 22, I'm guessing guns weren't exactly present throughout your upbringing. The point I'm trying to make is that this is a cultural issue. Those who have always known guns and responsible gun ownership as part of their culture generally don't fear guns; they view them as tools. Those who have not always known guns as part of their culture tend to fear them.

What makes me think you fear guns is the way you throw a fit every time someone mentions concealed carry. You obviously don't want the people around you carrying guns; yet, you've failed to give one rational reason why.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[DaVinci 0]

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Search the archives and you will find the answer.

It is so hard to post an answer? You can debate all day, but not answer a question?

Also, very few people NEED a gun. In fact most police do not need a weapon.

However there is nothing wrong with wanting a weapon for extra protection as long as it is handled legally and responsibly.

[kallend 1,679]

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Search the archives and you will find the answer.

It is so hard to post an answer? You can debate all day, but not answer a question?

Also, very few people NEED a gun. In fact most police do not need a weapon.

However there is nothing wrong with wanting a weapon for extra protection as long as it is handled legally and responsibly.

Easy - one of the first rules of forums - look to see if the question has already been answered. This one has, several times.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[DaVinci 0]

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Easy - one of the first rules of forums - look to see if the question has already been answered. This one has, several times.

So repetative posts are un-needed?

Like all the ones where you bash the President? I mean, why post it when you have posted it a bunch already?

[ECVZZ 0]

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The wise person plans his life so he needs neither gun nor gas mask.

I plan my life so I won't need a seatbelt either, but if I ever do, it's nice to know it's there.

G. Jones

"I've never been quarantined. But the more I look around, the more I think it might not be a bad idea."

[kallend 1,679]

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Easy - one of the first rules of forums - look to see if the question has already been answered. This one has, several times.

So repetative posts are un-needed?

Like all the ones where you bash the President? I mean, why post it when you have posted it a bunch already?

I repeat things when I think it appropriate.
I expect to make more skydives, drink more beer, have sex again, and denounce incompetent lying politicians again, although I've done all those things a bunch of times already.

Answering stupid questions over and over, on the other hand, is just tiresome

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[moodyskydiver 0]

Jeez guys! I didnt mean to start a heated debate over Concealed Carrying.I just wanted to post b/c I was happy that something I had worked hard to accomplish had finally paid off.Thats why this started in the Bonfire.I was hoping it wouldnt end up here.

Everybody chill and go have a beer.

"...just an earthbound misfit, I."

[AggieDave 6]

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as long as their gun doesn't make them think that they're safe.

In our society there is no such thing as safe. Your level of training in whatever style or weapon will not make you safer from the initial crime. Your choice in where you go or don't go really won't shield you from bad people.

Your choices in locations and times can help shield you from all but the most extreme of criminals. However, that is not a fail safe. Every town has a drug problem and a violent crime problem, that's regardless of what part of town you live in.

Your training and having choices in what level of response you respond with will not only give you more opportunity to not be a helpless victim, but it will help you overcome fight or flight quicker. Speed in reaction is important, regardless of what your choice of response is.

My opinion on firearms is fairly well known here, and my opinion has stayed the same to this day. I also believe in having a good quality tactical folder or other defense knife AND have the training to use it. I also believe in a solid training in some sort of fighting/defense martial arts. It helps. Nevermind that all the training classes are a LOT of fun to attend and the martial arts is a good work out.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."