masterrig 1 #26 December 17, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. Matthew 5:5-6 DOOBIE DOOBIE DOO Frank Sinatra 19:55 ______________________________ Aw yeah! I remember... the Bud Ice Penguin! airtwardo... ya' crack me up! Chuck So saith the Bird! ____________________________________ That's IT! Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freekflyguy 0 #27 December 18, 2006 Quote I doubt that a group of skydivers who are praying together would be doing so just to alienate others; they would most likely welcome anyone who wanted to join them. If you saw a group of people doing yoga together at the dz, would you think that they were doing it just to alienate others? I very much doubt that a group of skydivers praying together would find anyone wanting to join them in prayer on a DZ other than other christians. I personally would rather they kept their indoctrinated practices to themselves and in private, and that goes for all religions not just christianity. As for Yoga I guess as a relaxation teqnique and means of improving strength and flexibility I would probably ask if I could join in. I wont go to your place of worship and dirt dive in the aisle, do me the same courtesy.It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #28 December 18, 2006 QuoteI wont go to your place of worship and dirt dive in the aisle,There might be some charismatic churches where you could pull it off and they'd never know the difference. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #29 December 18, 2006 QuoteI very much doubt that a group of skydivers praying together would find anyone wanting to join them in prayer on a DZ other than other christians. At WFFC, The CSA had a quiet service in the entertainment tent on Sunday. That seemed to work well. QuoteI personally would rather they kept their indoctrinated practices to themselves and in private, and that goes for all religions not just christianity. When they start interfering with my activities, then they have a problem. I have had that happen with overbearing personalities, but I explain that it is inappropriate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Botellines 0 #30 December 19, 2006 QuoteSorry, but I just don't see how a comment like this does anything to help answer the user's thread. Well, you usually do not post on Speakers Corner to look for help. That is bonfire. Most of those who post religious topics a la "I am a christian and proud of it" are looking more or less for debate Quote To me, a statement like this is trying to get the Christian to change...what good does it serve asking a Christian who wants to find others to pray with..."Cannot you just pray by yourself?" I don´t know where you get that i am trying to change anyone. Unless you think that being a Christian is making a show of your religious ideas. Anyway, do you honestly think that a dropzone (either a real one or a web page) is the right place to look for people to pray with? I would go to a church for that QuoteAnd why do you have to bring such a statement of mockery? I am sorry you took it that way, but to some people the Force is the driving power behind the Universe. and to me that holds as much water as those who believe in the FSM or in God or Jesus. I think that if you want respect for your believes, you should start respecting other people´s believes. Or do you think that you are any righter than a Muslim, a Jew, a Jedi, or a flying spaguety Monster worshiper? QuoteI am amazed that people want Christians to "leave them alone"---yet they are often the ones who continually HAVE to say something when a Christian talks, posts, etc. Why can't THEY leave the Christians alone? I find a lot in common between the really outspoken Christians (Usually newborn Christians) and my 40 years old gay friend who just recently discovered he likes men and he pretends now that he is more gay than those who have liked men since they were teenagers. Now he regards lesbians pejoratively as "muff divers" because they don´t like penises and he feels persecuted if anyone don´t find enjoyable having something up their asses. I am not saying the original poster or you are like that, but i have found way too many religious people that behave in that manner. Although those people may feel persecuted, they are not, fortunately there is medication for that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Botellines 0 #31 December 19, 2006 QuoteI doubt that a group of skydivers who are praying together would be doing so just to alienate others; they would most likely welcome anyone who wanted to join them. I am sure they wouldn´t do it to alienate others, however that is what would happen. Some of them would join them , and some of them would get away from them because they don´t share their believes, making yet another division among a group of equals (Sorry for this comunistic idea that we are all equals ) I just don´t think it is a good idea to polarize an homogeneus group (Skidivers) in severel subgroups based on religion, race, or sexual orientation. QuoteIf you saw a group of people doing yoga together at the dz, would you think that they were doing it just to alienate others? No, If you saw a group of people engaged in an orgy in the Dropzone would you feel alienated? There is some things that are best left to the intimacy of a room, a church, or at the ver least your own house. Religion and sex are just some of them. In my book Yoga is not controversial enough to be among those. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ROK 0 #32 December 19, 2006 It always makes me wonder when someone states that "all men are created equal" or something along those lines. All men are not created equal. It's a basic fact. Although, everyone should have the same opportunities in life regardless of how they were created. Whether they make it as far as some others, is up to the individual. As far as people praying together, if that's what they want to do, then they can do it. If it makes you feel uncomfortable, deal with it. If their actions cause a loud disturbance, they need to stop, because they are then not using common social senses. If you bring a loud barking dog and tie it by the spectator area, people are going to complain. If your dog is quiet and doesn't disturb, no one will think about it. Now, if a group of Christians just crashed a plane into a building down the street, and the next day they come to the DZ and pray loudly and cause a disturbance, I'm going to freak a little. They've opened up the possibilty in my mind of it happening again. They should use a little more common sense. Prejudice is prejudice. It doesn't matter if its against an ethnic group, religion, or sexual orientation. Unless you're being actively recruited against your will, or distracted by a loud annoying commotion, you shouldn't give a damn one way or the other. The people who scream the loudest and profess equality are most often the true zealots too... As far as comparing quiet prayer together to an orgy, give me a break... again common sense should lend a little hand... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #33 December 19, 2006 Welcome to SC. So many here got their panties in a wad over just about anything Christian. Its laughable. As far as praying together, I'd seriously doubt anyone would mind. Actually, I doubt if anyone would notice. There are a few Christians at our DZ and I've held a service or two here. You'd be surprised at who might come to a service at a DZ. Over the years a few people have asked me to pray for them and since we never made a scene, I doubt if anyone ever even knew what we were doing. The only time I saw people "obviously" praying was when one of our fellow skydivers was having a heart attack. No one cared that the Christians were openly praying at that point. I didn't join the prayer circle as I was administering CPR. My advice is as Jesus said, "Be the salt of the earth" Create a thirst for God and people will seek you out. Cram it down their throat and they will gag. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #34 December 19, 2006 Pray all you want, just don't preach."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #35 December 19, 2006 QuoteIf you saw a group of people engaged in an orgy in the Dropzone would you feel alienated? No. I'd probably feel amused, but not alienated. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #36 December 20, 2006 QuoteQuoteIf you saw a group of people engaged in an orgy in the Dropzone would you feel alienated? No. I'd probably feel amused, but not alienated. Have the charity to post pics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Botellines 0 #37 December 20, 2006 QuoteQuoteIf you saw a group of people engaged in an orgy in the Dropzone would you feel alienated? No. I'd probably feel amused, but not alienated. Neither would I, but you get my point don´t you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #38 December 20, 2006 Quotebut you get my point don´t you? No. I still don't understand why it would bother you if a group of people choose to pray together at the dz. I just don't see any reason why it should affect you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #39 December 20, 2006 QuotePray all you want, just don't preach. Tolerance? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,470 #40 December 20, 2006 >I am sure they wouldn´t do it to alienate others, however that is what would happen. ?? There are people who do nothing but freefly at our DZ. I don't feel alienated from them. There are often large groups of people stretching in the morning (the 8-way teams.) They don't alienate other people. There's an amputees-only 'team' (pieces of eight) who jump at Perris a lot. I don't feel alienated from them, even though I'm not missing any large body parts. >I just don´t think it is a good idea to polarize an homogeneus group > (Skidivers) in severel subgroups based on religion, race, or sexual > orientation. We do it all the time. Moxie was an all-women's 8 way team last year at Perris; did really well. So was Passion-8. There was a Rainbow Boogie last year that attracted a lot of people, both straight and gay. I don't think any of those things are bad or alienating. >No, If you saw a group of people engaged in an orgy in the >Dropzone would you feel alienated? Alienated? No. Grossed out? Based on what most skydivers look like, yes! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #41 December 20, 2006 QuoteQuotePray all you want, just don't preach. Tolerance? I'm not sure that I understand your question (if it even is one)."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freekflyguy 0 #42 December 20, 2006 Can you tell me the last time flat flyers traveled to the homes of freeflyers and executed them because they chose to be freeflyers and not flat flyers? (The Crusades) Can you tell me the last time an 8 way team were executed because the head of the 4 way team wanted to eradicate 8 way teams because he classed them as sub human? (The Holocaust) Can you tell me the last time someone was tortured for refusing to denounce his method of stretching and take up the method enforced by his inqusitors? (The Spanish Inquasition) Can you tell me the last time amputees who had lost lower limbs were ostracised by amputees who had lost upper limbs and believed that upper limb amputation was the only true way? (Protestant/Catholic sectarienism in Northern Ireland) Very simplistic generalisations i know, but these scenarios have happened and continue to happen in the name of organised religion.It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,470 #43 December 20, 2006 >Can you tell me the last time flat flyers traveled to the homes of > freeflyers and executed them because they chose to be freeflyers > and not flat flyers? You must have missed Black Belly Tuesday - the tuesday where dozens of belly flyers descended upon Skydive Chicago to kill the "freak flyers" of the day. Roger Nelson barely escaped with his life, killing several belly flyers with a D-18 prop blade. Later the USPA had it all hushed up. Roger pleaded to a lesser crime (possession of drugs) and the matter was swept under the rug. (yes the above is a joke) Come on. This is skydiving. There was a whole sector of russians on the 400-way. Should I have gone up to them and said "you filthy commies, you killed my countrymen" and proceeded to whale on them? There were several japanese jumpers there too. Yet not one of them threatened to kill me for dropping atomic bombs on them. Heck, there were a few germans there too. Should I have beaten the crap out of them because of Pearl Harbor? (don't stop Bill, he's on a roll) Comparing ancient events to relationships you have with real, current, living skydivers is sorta silly. Judge them based on what THEY do, not because their great great great great grandad made someone's great great great great grandaddy slaves. (with apologies to Ben Folds.) And most of the christian skydivers I know are pretty good people - even if they like to pray on occasion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #44 December 20, 2006 it's a slippery slope, Bill. If you let 'em pray, the next thing you know, out comes the comfy chairs. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #45 December 21, 2006 QuoteHeck, there were a few germans there too. Should I have beaten the crap out of them because of Pearl Harbor? Trick question, right? Pearl Harbor was bombed by the Japanese. Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,470 #46 December 21, 2006 >Pearl Harbor was bombed by the Japanese. Sssshhh! I was on a roll. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #47 December 21, 2006 Quote>Pearl Harbor was bombed by the Japanese. Sssshhh! I was on a roll. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K92OVFeGgIE Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #48 December 21, 2006 QuoteQuote>Pearl Harbor was bombed by the Japanese. Sssshhh! I was on a roll. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K92OVFeGgIE Clearly the humor was lost on someone. edit to add: and I don't think it was SpeedRacer or Billvon. Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hairyjuan 0 #49 December 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteCannot you just pray by yourself? I mean, that thing of praying together and doing it in the dropzone, unless you are having problems with your reserve i think is just a way to alienate others. Sorry, but I just don't see how a comment like this does anything to help answer the user's thread. To me, a statement like this is trying to get the Christian to change...what good does it serve asking a Christian who wants to find others to pray with..."Cannot you just pray by yourself?" QuoteMay the Force be with You. And why do you have to bring such a statement of mockery? I am amazed that people want Christians to "leave them alone"---yet they are often the ones who continually HAVE to say something when a Christian talks, posts,etc. Why can't THEY leave the Christians alone? thomas jefferson- the christian religion is the most perverted system that ever shone on manwe are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively wishers never choose, choosers never wish Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freekflyguy 0 #50 December 21, 2006 This is a skydiving forum, why bring your religious beliefs into it?It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
