Stumpy 256 #276 December 14, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Quote I’m only trying inspire someone out here and start a thought process that if all goes well go a little further than us being here for no reason at all. You should really read his link - i promise you will laugh. I get the impression he may not have read it very closely himself which just goes to show really!! Ok heres a thought process to get you started…. The marsupial population of Australia contains animal families, genera, and species found nowhere else on earth - not even in fossil form. We are to suppose that each species of marsupial managed to get from Mt. Ararat to Australia, but couldn't find its way to any other part of the world - including those regions located between Turkey and Australia. Despite the fact that most marsupial species seem to be out-gunned when they are forced to compete with placental mammals (hence the extinction of so many marsupial species after the introduction of European mammals), we are to suppose that wombats and wallabies, bandicoots and koalas, kept ahead of lions-'n-tigers-'n-bears all the way to Indonesia, and then - although the superior placental predators couldn't manage it - continued on to Australia. As if this were not mind-boggling enough, after all this implausible world travel, and after all the dust had settled, it turns out that the types of marsupials that made it to Australia just happened to form an ensemble able to fill all the ecological niches available! HELLO Skysaint old boy, care to comment.....care to attempt to refute what I have to say... or as with all religious types are you opting for the ignore the facts and hope they will go away option?? http://evolution.mbdojo.com/flood.html Thanks But no thanks, I guess I foolishly thought that you were capable of refuting this yourself. However you seem to only have th ability to post a clickly to some pro creationist site, that really dont have any inclination to read... Are you or are you not able to refute ???Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skysaintj 0 #277 December 14, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Quote I’m only trying inspire someone out here and start a thought process that if all goes well go a little further than us being here for no reason at all. You should really read his link - i promise you will laugh. I get the impression he may not have read it very closely himself which just goes to show really!! Ok heres a thought process to get you started…. The marsupial population of Australia contains animal families, genera, and species found nowhere else on earth - not even in fossil form. We are to suppose that each species of marsupial managed to get from Mt. Ararat to Australia, but couldn't find its way to any other part of the world - including those regions located between Turkey and Australia. Despite the fact that most marsupial species seem to be out-gunned when they are forced to compete with placental mammals (hence the extinction of so many marsupial species after the introduction of European mammals), we are to suppose that wombats and wallabies, bandicoots and koalas, kept ahead of lions-'n-tigers-'n-bears all the way to Indonesia, and then - although the superior placental predators couldn't manage it - continued on to Australia. As if this were not mind-boggling enough, after all this implausible world travel, and after all the dust had settled, it turns out that the types of marsupials that made it to Australia just happened to form an ensemble able to fill all the ecological niches available! HELLO Skysaint old boy, care to comment.....care to attempt to refute what I have to say... or as with all religious types are you opting for the ignore the facts and hope they will go away option?? http://evolution.mbdojo.com/flood.html Thanks But no thanks, I guess I foolishly thought that you were capable of refuting this yourself. However you seem to only have th ability to post a clickly to some pro creationist site, that really dont have any inclination to read... Are you or are you not able to refute ??? OK I have not read enough on this but so far it is a valid point until explained - now then don't go and base your religion of evolution on little cute fluffy just yet If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 256 #278 December 14, 2006 Actually i think that website is the most accurate thing you posted so far. http://evolution.mbdojo.com/flood.html Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #279 December 14, 2006 <> egh? Evolution is NOT religion - That's the point. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skysaintj 0 #280 December 14, 2006 Quote<> egh? Evolution is NOT religion - That's the point. ...Now to come back to how big ,brilliant and magnificent satan's plan of evolution is ...satan designed his diversion(evolution) to not point at him but just to point away from God ,also designed to look like science only .... that's what people wanna believe right "SCIENCE" ...ok fair enough but there are creation theories as well as evolution theories that use the same universe and all matter within it to try and prove and submit their theories etc...difference is because there is a God factor from the creationists viewpoint and theory now it can only be classified as religion...Your evolution(diversion) is your religion and your self justification...if you don't see it , it was because you didn't want to “Satan is the great deceiver; we know that. But this means that self-proclaimed Satanists, occultists, Wiccans, etc. are his weakest soldiers! They are and always will be part of the subculture. Most people look at them, recognize them, and look away. Satan's most effective warriors are in the mainstream: Misguided, apathetic Joe and Jane Schmos who work in the office next to yours. They live "normal" lives. But their minds are deceived and their lives are permeated by subtle, socially acceptable, ungodly attitudes. Such "innocent Satanists" have the greatest influence in our world. Is it possible that some of Satan's strongest influence comes even through members of Christ's church?” - J.B “And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, / And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more.” - The BibleIf at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #281 December 14, 2006 Now I know that you're taking the piss... Very funny. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #282 December 14, 2006 Quote>Have we yet seen to the farthest reaches of the universe? Basically, yes we have. We've seen microwave radiation (remnants of the Big Bang) from as far away as the edge of the universe. (Edge of the universe = edge of our universe's event horizon.) That is incorrect. The background radiation is the 4D surface of the glowing universe as it cleared and became transparent to that radiation (arriving at our vantage point red shifted/delayed) Looking at BG radiation you're looking back in time at the bubble of the universe that is visible to us, the outer boundary is just th history we can 'see', you're looking back in time at the glow from the particle soup we all came from, but there is absolutely a history prior to that BG radiation. It is not an event horizon it's just looking back at when the particle soup expanded enough to cool and clear. It's a beautiful thing to contemplate really, every vantage point in the universe looks around and sees its own expanding bubble of creation as ancient microwave light finally reaches the local observer. Somewhere out there maybe 12 billion light years away some creature might be observing microwave radiation from the particle soup that formed our part of the Universe and trying to detect the variations that led to gravitational collapse and ultimately to us. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crwtom 0 #283 December 14, 2006 Quote He gave Adam the job of naming the animals. but the word you need to look at is HAD, this is past tense. Adam must have been extremly busy - estimates about the number of species go anywhere between 5 and 50 million these days, and something over 1.5 million have been successfully named by scientists. (most are insects) Even if you take the lowest of these numbers, give Adam 50 years, and about 8 hours sleep a day he would have had to name a species about every 11 minutes and 40 seconds. What bugs me most - why did the block head not write this stuff down. That would have saved generations of unnumbered taxanomists a lot of work. Cheers, T ******************************************************************* Fear causes hesitation, and hesitation will cause your worst fears to come true Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
philh 0 #284 December 14, 2006 what so wrong with satan? as i remeber in the bible god is responsible for a lot more gruesome murders than satan. Seems to me that anyone who rebels against such an asshole is all right in my book. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,635 #285 December 14, 2006 QuoteQuote>Your interpretation not mine. Uh, no interpretation involved. Man first, then every beast of the field, right there in black and white on the pages of the New King James Bible. While you may have your own beliefs on the subject, they are different than the bible's. So evolutionary science is all wrong and can't be taught. But creationism should be? Which one? Yours? The bible's? (cause they ain't the same.) The koran's? How about the egyptian myth? Or the norse one? They're all equivalent scientifically (i.e. not at all.) Here's an idea - teach them all in a religion class. Then teach science in a science class. Simple and solves the problem completely. (Unless, of course, your goal is to "destroy materialist science" or something, which is what many ID proponents want.) Like i said before - you are looking for an excuse....there is no conflict about these two creation stories. The first story is an outline of the creation of all things, while the second story focuses on the details of the creation of mankind...this might seem to you like a contradiction but it's because of your interpretation. Typically lame.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #286 December 14, 2006 Quote>Then the LORD God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden . . . Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, I think it's pretty clear from the above that 1 - man was created and is fairly well stuck at an evolutionary dead end 2 - obviously the beasts and birds evolved as 'out of the ground' is clearly a reference to evolution. What happens when the wee beasties pass us up on that evolutionary racetrack? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #287 December 14, 2006 <> I say they already have.... not even my dogs commute 40 miles each way to get to an office, to be treated like shite for hours... They just lounge around all day waiting for me to commute 40 miles home to feed them.... out of my pocket... So, which wee beasties have evolved a proper common sense? (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,406 #288 December 14, 2006 >this might seem to you like a contradiction but it's because of your >interpretation. No, it IS a contradiction because the BOOK says two different things. This isn't one of those "well, it's subject to definitions." It says quite clearly god created man, THEN beasts of the field. No ambiguity - unless you feel the bible is being intentionally deceptive there. This is why it's a mistake to teach this stuff as science. The willful suspension of normal laws of logic to "explain away" such contradictions makes a mockery of logic. And if you can ignore logic there, why not ignore it when it comes to medicine? Physics? Math? After all, the bible says pi is 3. We say it's 3.14159 . . . Why not teach both? Heck, teach that pi can be 4. That's not a contradiction, it's all in how you interpret it! That's an excellent reason to not teach it in place of science. We'd be educating a generation of scientific illiterates, who really believe that 3 can be the same as pi, who really believe that woman was created from a rib of man. Mitochondrial DNA diseases? There can't be any such thing! The bible said so. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #289 December 14, 2006 And God said: But the cost for this perfect companion will be an arm and a leg. Adam replied: What can I get for a rib? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,406 #290 December 14, 2006 >Somewhere out there maybe 12 billion light years away some > creature might be observing microwave radiation from the particle > soup that formed our part of the Universe and trying to detect the > variations that led to gravitational collapse and ultimately to us. Perhaps - but if there _is_ some observer out there who's just starting to see that microwave radiation, then our concept of our universe's "event horizon" changes pretty radically. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,406 #291 December 14, 2006 >What happens when the wee beasties pass us up on that evolutionary racetrack? No problem. Call em evolvo-fascists and kill em all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #292 December 14, 2006 QuoteFox on fox produces fox. Actually no; it produces Newsmax. A form of devolution. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #293 December 14, 2006 Quote“Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die. Am I the only one who sees a bit of inconsistency with God lying to Adam about the consequences of eating from the tree of knowledge? Isn't God supposed to be good? Isn't lying supposed to be bad? I was thinking that there was even a Commandment that prohibited lying. Or, perhaps God was not lying. Perhaps he was just unaware what would happen if Adam ate from the tree of knowledge. So much for the all-knowing aspect of God. If God didn't want Adam to eat from the tree of knowledge, why didn't he just make it impossible? Isn't God all powerful? Maybe the whole tree of knowledge is just a metaphor. Maybe it means that the religious zealots will try to claim that only bad will happen if we use our human intellect to seek knowledge. But the metaphor also tells us that such bad things don't really happen. What really happens is that our knowledge ultimately changes the environment in which we live, for better or worse, and that it is up to us to make sure those changes are positive. Never mind. That's just crazy talk. Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #294 December 14, 2006 <> - maybe.. then I'm crazy for suggesting so a little higher in the thread. Also, if God only created 2 peeps.... everyone else is the product of incest... also bad? (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #295 December 14, 2006 QuoteAlso, if God only created 2 peeps.... everyone else is the product of incest... also bad? Would that mean the Garden Of Eden is in Arkansas? Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #296 December 14, 2006 squeal like a pig booooy (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,635 #297 December 14, 2006 QuoteQuote“Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die. Am I the only one who sees a bit of inconsistency with God lying to Adam about the consequences of eating from the tree of knowledge? Isn't God supposed to be good? Isn't lying supposed to be bad? I was thinking that there was even a Commandment that prohibited lying. Or, perhaps God was not lying. Perhaps he was just unaware what would happen if Adam ate from the tree of knowledge. So much for the all-knowing aspect of God. If God didn't want Adam to eat from the tree of knowledge, why didn't he just make it impossible? Isn't God all powerful? Maybe the whole tree of knowledge is just a metaphor. Maybe it means that the religious zealots will try to claim that only bad will happen if we use our human intellect to seek knowledge. But the metaphor also tells us that such bad things don't really happen. What really happens is that our knowledge ultimately changes the environment in which we live, for better or worse, and that it is up to us to make sure those changes are positive. Never mind. That's just crazy talk. God didn't want people to have knowledge, because he knew (being omnipresent and omniscient) that then they would eventually develop science.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #298 December 14, 2006 Quote>Somewhere out there maybe 12 billion light years away some > creature might be observing microwave radiation from the particle > soup that formed our part of the Universe and trying to detect the > variations that led to gravitational collapse and ultimately to us. Perhaps - but if there _is_ some observer out there who's just starting to see that microwave radiation, then our concept of our universe's "event horizon" changes pretty radically. You are absolutely wrong on this. The regions we see on our background radiation sphere are now coalesced into galaxies and matter like our part of the Universe. As observers on those coalesced worlds look in our direction they see background radiation emitted from our part of the proto-matter particle soup just as we see theirs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,406 #299 December 14, 2006 >As observers on those coalesced worlds look in our direction they see background radiation . . . If they are observers on a world in _our_ universe, would they not see microwave background radiation all around them? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
speedy 0 #300 December 14, 2006 QuoteGod didn't want people to have knowledge, because he knew (being omnipresent and omniscient) that then they would eventually develop science. NO no no, God gave the idea of logic and science to us. The only reason all our scientific logic and experiements work is because God makes them work. If he stopped messing around with your telescopes and thought patterns you would see the the Sun really does revolve around the earth. Gravity is just an illusion created by God. If you pray really hard maybe you won't need a parachute. The half life of radioative materials is also totally controlled by God. He controlls everything, apart from whether you believe in Him. Dave Fallschirmsport Marl Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
