kallend 1,647 #76 December 4, 2006 QuoteQuoteYou write of atheists as if they are all of one type. ... I find no reason to give any more respect to Christians or Muslims than I do to believers in Zeus or Poseidon (or the FSM, for that matter). You write of religious people as if they are all of one type.... . They ALL have the irrational attribute of believing in supernatural beings without any proof.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #77 December 4, 2006 QuoteQuoteWhy can't Atheists just carry on beliving in nothing and let the rest of us get on with our own belifes? Bloody annoying. I'm 65 years old and it still pisses me off that Christians like you never stop in their quest to convert the the opposition...or get us to keep quiet as you are attempting to do. A true story about why I will never keep quiet about being an atheist. So, you're pissed that some Christians prothelytize, but feel entitled (or even compelled) to spray about your own belief system. Freedom of speech is a two way street. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #78 December 4, 2006 I am an agnostic instead of an athiest because I can not currently understand using logic and reasoning why anything exists. (Anyone care to try to explain to me using logic and reasoning why anything exists?) Everyone should remember that there are still plenty of things in this world that can not or have not been explained by science or religion."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #79 December 4, 2006 Quoteit is quite laughable to compare atheism to some sort of dogmatic belief system. Why? Take a look at what is going on in many schools nowadays. The mere mention of religion brings up lawsuits. The secular movement is seeking to eliminate all reference to God in institutions. I agree that policy or education should not be based upon the bible. I also agree, however, that people should be afforded the opportunity to pray if they so choose. Sure, other kids may be bothered by those children saying grace before lunch or praying to God to help them pass the algebra test, but why are they so damned against it? Again, I'm not religious. I'd call myself atheist. But the secular movement seemingly seeks to destroy all religion and religious belief. Dawkins himself said his goal is to make every reader atheist. To me, that is dogmatic. The suggestion is far less laughable than you may think. By applying reason and logic to your statements, without the subjective feelings that you have (and not ignoring the darn good reasons for having these feelings), there is much to be learned about the similarities between the religious bible thumpers trying to shove religion down your throat and the secular movement trying to shove atheism down people's throats. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #80 December 4, 2006 QuoteEveryone should remember that there are still plenty of things in this world that can not or have not been explained by science or religion. Just because something cannot be explained does not mean the best explanation is God did it or any other supernatural explanation. It just means we don't understand it yet and it needs to be investigated. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,259 #81 December 4, 2006 QuoteAs always in any belife mindset (Including the belife in the absence of X) its the minority fanatics who have no respect for the right of others to belive in what they want to belive in without trying to convert them that cause the problem. If someone truly believed they had gnomes at the bottom of the garden you'd probably laugh at them. If someone truly believed their house was haunted you'd probably laugh at them. If someone truly believed a leprechaun sat on his shoulder telling him what to do you might go so far as to get him professional help. If someone truly believes that an all powerful intellect created the universe and the world and everything on it just for us humans and that this intellect really does care whether we are nice to each other in very specific ways (and dictated books/ sent angels/ created magical golden plates to tell us how to be nice to each other) and whether we worship it in very specific ways then these people are religious and these beliefs must (apparently) be respected and unquestioned above all others. To even suggest it may be wrong is the height of intolerance. Every religion out there has books that explain why they are right (and, by consequence why everyone else is wrong). Now, with the God Delusion and other publications atheists have books that explain why we are probably right and by consequence why everyone else is probably wrong. Its not being forced down anyones throat, no-one is being made to go and buy it. It's just there if you want it.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #82 December 4, 2006 QuoteQuoteEveryone should remember that there are still plenty of things in this world that can not or have not been explained by science or religion. Just because something cannot be explained does not mean the best explanation is God did it or any other supernatural explanation. It just means we don't understand it yet and it needs to be investigated. You mean like "how life on Earth began"? The scientific community has little to say about this, but all too frequently, anyone who questions current (unsupported) theories.... they get pegged a creationist who thinks the worls id less than 10,000 years old. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #83 December 4, 2006 I understand your position, you define adherence to "Faith" (belief), but less on "Religion" (rituals to practice Faith like praying and taking sacraments), and not at all on "Church" (an organization which exploits the Faithful by claiming the Religion must be administered by them) I just think it's silly to split hairs with the terms in order to avoid calling yourself something different. And, Spiritual really has taken on a rather different and wacky impression over what it used to mean. Now, go back to your Wiccan crystals and read the tea leaves and see what the crystal ball has to say about your karma in the realm of the great mother and her children.... ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #84 December 4, 2006 QuoteThey ALL have the irrational attribute of believing in supernatural beings without any proof. And if their irrational belief tends to make them very decent people while followers of Poseidon tend to believe in human sacrifice you would still not give them 'more' respect? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #85 December 4, 2006 Quotecurrent (unsupported) theories.... "Unsupported"? Jesus H. Christ... Wait, let me rephrase that... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,647 #86 December 4, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteEveryone should remember that there are still plenty of things in this world that can not or have not been explained by science or religion. Just because something cannot be explained does not mean the best explanation is God did it or any other supernatural explanation. It just means we don't understand it yet and it needs to be investigated. You mean like "how life on Earth began"? 100 years ago we didn't understand the origin of earthquakes and tsunamis. Some societies attributed them to angry gods. 300 years ago we didn't understand lightning and thunder - most societies attributed them to angry gods. 400 years ago we didn't understand that gravity controlled the dynamics of the solar system and galaxy - many societies believed in crystal spheres placed in the heavens by gods. Explain how incomplete (but growing) understanding of the origin of life REQUIRES the invocation of a supernatural explanation, as opposed to more scientific research.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,259 #87 December 4, 2006 QuoteI am an agnostic instead of an athiest because I can not currently understand using logic and reasoning why anything exists. (Anyone care to try to explain to me using logic and reasoning why anything exists?) Everyone should remember that there are still plenty of things in this world that can not or have not been explained by science or religion. I don't know why everything exists. Science has not yet explained it so it would be arrogant of me to pretend I could give an explanation. For a moment though, consider this - 10 or 15 years ago (an age in the world of fluid dynamics) a study was made on the flight of bumblebees. The findings were that based on all our current knowledge bumblebees were too heavy for their short, weak wings to enable them to fly (Cue lots of tabloid headlines "scientists declare bumblebee impossible"). We've now found that bumblebees use vortices in previously unexpored ways to create their lift. Anyway - during the time we had no idea how a bumblebee flew was it ever suggested that God picked bumblebees up and carried them where they needed to go? Of course it wasn't, it's an absurd suggestion which no-one would have been satisfied with. So why does it suddenly become a valid proposition on the larger questions when on smaller issues it is unacceptable? One last thought (A Dawkins paraphrase) granted we cannot absolutely prove or disprove God through science, this does not for a second mean that the chances are 50/50.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #88 December 4, 2006 QuoteQuoteThey ALL have the irrational attribute of believing in supernatural beings without any proof. And if their irrational belief tends to make them very decent people while followers of Poseidon tend to believe in human sacrifice you would still not give them 'more' respect? I wouldn't. Human sacrifice has the benefit of population control; and when combined with cremation on an altar, results in less needless waste of land to cemeteries. When combined with cannibalism, it would be an excellent supplant to the food supply. Lots of children go to bed hungry, you know. Think of the children. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #89 December 4, 2006 My new belief is that Mickey Mouse created everything, even Walt Disney. Walt was created to spread the gospel through animation and amusement parks. Now, I cannot prove any of this, nor can anyone prove that I am wrong. Sounds pretty silly, does it not? Same goes for any concept of a super deity that materalized out of nowhere and created everything in just 6 days. I nor anyone else cannot prove that a god does not exist. Nor can anyone prove that he or she or it does exist. The entire god concept is full of holes. The concept of a god giving his son to suffer for everyones sins is completely flawed. The story would have you believe that god could not had forseen that jesus was going to get his ass nailed to a cross but, wait, god knows all and sees all. Right? So, this says that god KNEW that Jesus was going to be nailed to the cross long before he popped out of Mary's wazoo. He set jesus up to fail. Nice guy. Furthermore if god is all knowing then he knows exactly what each and every person is going to do in advance. This has to be true if there is a god. God has a plan for everyone. Right? God knew what was going to happen to me before it happened. Right. God knows when you are going to hook low and plant your ass into the planet. Right. Seems to me that this god just has a very mean streak being that he knows everything and has just set us all up for whatever fate awaits you. Hell, Mickey would never do that."...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #90 December 4, 2006 QuoteI wouldn't. Human sacrifice has the benefit of population control; and when combined with cremation on an altar, results in less needless waste of land to cemeteries. When combined with cannibalism, it would be an excellent supplant to the food supply. Lots of children go to bed hungry, you know. Think of the children. You've been reading old Ross Perot pamphlets again....... (I think religion provides a very good service to science. It provides a succinct list of those things that science has yet to understand very explicitly. For those items in conflict, it indicates that science has made some progress but still isn't quite complete in the job. It's a nice 'to do' list) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #91 December 4, 2006 QuoteQuoteEveryone should remember that there are still plenty of things in this world that can not or have not been explained by science or religion. Just because something cannot be explained does not mean the best explanation is God did it or any other supernatural explanation. It just means we don't understand it yet and it needs to be investigated. Agreed. "You must be the change you want to see in the world." Mahatma Gandhi If you do not want people to try to convert you then you should not try to convert other people. "One needs to be slow to form convictions, but once formed they must be defended against the heaviest odds." Mahatma Gandhi"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,647 #92 December 4, 2006 QuoteQuoteThey ALL have the irrational attribute of believing in supernatural beings without any proof. And if their irrational belief tends to make them very decent people while followers of Poseidon tend to believe in human sacrifice you would still not give them 'more' respect? I think Christians have killed more humans than have Poseidon followers. However, whenever I bring up the Inquisition and the Crusades someone complains that it's ancient history. Following your logic would tend to leave only Buddhism and Wiccan as worthy or respect.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #93 December 4, 2006 QuoteQuotecurrent (unsupported) theories.... "Unsupported"? Jesus H. Christ... Wait, let me rephrase that... Okay... how did life begin on Earth? What scientific advances have been made on this in the last 50 years? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #94 December 4, 2006 QuoteI just think it's silly to split hairs with the terms in order to avoid calling yourself something different. Maybe it is, but it works for me...QuoteAnd, Spiritual really has taken on a rather different and wacky impression over what it used to mean. True dat. Didn't "spiritualist" used to mean people who say ectoplasm and hold seances? LOL, nope, that definition doesn't fit me. LOLOL! QuoteNow, go back to your Wiccan crystals and read the tea leaves and see what the crystal ball has to say about your karma in the realm of the great mother and her children.... I'll let you know what's predicted, deal? But you left out reading thrown chicken bones, you know? Don't you think that thrown bones can tell the future? Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,259 #95 December 4, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteThey ALL have the irrational attribute of believing in supernatural beings without any proof. And if their irrational belief tends to make them very decent people while followers of Poseidon tend to believe in human sacrifice you would still not give them 'more' respect? I think Christians have killed more humans than have Poseidon followers. However, whenever I bring up the Inquisition and the Crusades someone complains that it's ancient history. Following your logic would tend to leave only Buddhism and Wiccan as worthy or respect. I've read a few statements by the Dalai Lama that state things were sometimes quite brutal in Buddhist Tibetan history.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
philh 0 #96 December 4, 2006 Are you also an agnostic with respect to Zeus, the Flying Spaghetti Monster or fairies? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #97 December 4, 2006 QuoteThe entire god concept is full of holes. The concept of a god giving his son ... Do you mean to say that the whole Christian concept of God is full of holes? There are other concepts of God."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #98 December 4, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteEveryone should remember that there are still plenty of things in this world that can not or have not been explained by science or religion. Just because something cannot be explained does not mean the best explanation is God did it or any other supernatural explanation. It just means we don't understand it yet and it needs to be investigated. You mean like "how life on Earth began"? 100 years ago we didn't understand the origin of earthquakes and tsunamis. Some societies attributed them to angry gods. 300 years ago we didn't understand lightning and thunder - most societies attributed them to angry gods. 400 years ago we didn't understand that gravity controlled the dynamics of the solar system and galaxy - many societies believed in crystal spheres placed in the heavens by gods. Explain how incomplete (but growing) understanding of the origin of life REQUIRES the invocation of a supernatural explanation, as opposed to more scientific research. I wasn't saying anything against scientific advancement. My point was about the dogmatic hostility by the more zealous types to attack those who question certain (percieved) weaknesses of certain scientific theories. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #99 December 4, 2006 QuoteI think Christians have killed more humans than have Poseidon followers. Now let's compare Christians to non-religious groups. I'm sure you can guess I'm referencing those godless commies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #100 December 4, 2006 Does it matter that people believed the world was flat? No, so long as people were respectful to each other over this belief and were allowed to study it. Does it matter if people believe there is (or isn't) a God? No, so long as people are respectful to each other over this belief and are allowed to study it."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
